Boston Bruins All Bruins Free Agent/Trade Rumours and Proposals IV

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Alberta_OReilly_Fan

Bruin fan since 1975
Nov 26, 2006
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Edmonton Canada
Woah woah woah, too much factual information for one post. We can't let these facts deter the narrative that the Bruins forwards are small with pillow-like softness, and are no match for the Big Bad Bolts.

Washington capitals
Ovechkin 6'3 and 235
Wilson 6'4 and 220
knutsov a small 6'2 and around 200
Backstrom 6'1 and 200
Connolly 6'3 and 198
eller 6'2 and 207
beagle 6'3 and 218
oshie… the midget of the bunch at 5'11 and 195
peluso and chaison… big 6'3 6'4 guys
burakovsky is 6'3 and 200 too

do they have a single forward playing above the 4th line who isn't 6 feet and 200 pounds other than oshie?

sure seem that way for me... and that's a lot of factual information in one post too. the small tampa forwards got pillowed by this capital team
 

Dizzay

Registered User
Jul 8, 2004
3,136
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Moncton
Woah woah woah, too much factual information for one post. We can't let these facts deter the narrative that the Bruins forwards are small with pillow-like softness, and are no match for the Big Bad Bolts.
Hahaha yeah, 9 forwards were listed out of 12. That's a fact
Also those 9 forwards listed made our forwards look like the Habs in 2011, that's a fact.
I understand you and others like the smallish speedster new NHL way, and I can respect that, doesn't mean I have to agree with it, nor does it mean I'm right and you're wrong or vice versa. Move along!
 

Dizzay

Registered User
Jul 8, 2004
3,136
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Moncton
Washington capitals
Ovechkin 6'3 and 235
Wilson 6'4 and 220
knutsov a small 6'2 and around 200
Backstrom 6'1 and 200
Connolly 6'3 and 198
eller 6'2 and 207
beagle 6'3 and 218
oshie… the midget of the bunch at 5'11 and 195
peluso and chaison… big 6'3 6'4 guys
burakovsky is 6'3 and 200 too

do they have a single forward playing above the 4th line who isn't 6 feet and 200 pounds other than oshie?

sure seem that way for me... and that's a lot of factual information in one post too. the small tampa forwards got pillowed by this capital team
Probably post of the week, potentially month!
Great job!
 

Alberta_OReilly_Fan

Bruin fan since 1975
Nov 26, 2006
14,331
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Edmonton Canada
Woah woah woah, too much factual information for one post. We can't let these facts deter the narrative that the Bruins forwards are small with pillow-like softness, and are no match for the Big Bad Bolts.

also need to point out that tampa group has only made the playoffs once in the past 2 years. its true they managed to beat us in this years playoffs but calling them the powerhouse team in the nhl is probably 100% unsubstantiated based on recent facts

they were a good regular season team this year.. they had a very easy first round match up. and then they were able to beat us

is beating us the mark of a super powerhouse team that sets the gold standard for the nhl?

how small is Pittsburgh?
Crosby is a 'small guy' at only 5'11 but a powerful jacked 200 pounds
malkin is not small at 6'3 and pushing 200
hornqvist is only 5'11 and around 190 so a bit smallish I guess
kessel 6'0 and 200 but doesn't really play big
guentzel is only 5'11 and 180
but brassard has decent size at 6'1 and 202
rust 5'11 and 190ish... not a giant
shery who was a smurf was shown the door
sheehan was a strategic pickup... 6'3 and 214
reeves was also given a try

wonder if pittsburg felt they were too small and were trying to bulk up a bit? they won back to back cups but their moves were all aimed at bringing in bigger stronger players and getting rid of the one smurf they felt was getting pushed around and not performing
 

BruinDust

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
24,370
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Probably post of the week, potentially month!
Great job!

So posts with facts that emphasize your viewpoint...great.

Posts with facts that detract from your viewpoint....move along.

Answer this question.

Why were Tampa Bay forwards able to use their physical play to help defeat the Bruins?

Was it

A) Because they were bigger?

B) Because they were faster and more willing to play physical when it mattered?
 

BruinDust

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
24,370
21,820
also need to point out that tampa group has only made the playoffs once in the past 2 years. its true they managed to beat us in this years playoffs but calling them the powerhouse team in the nhl is probably 100% unsubstantiated based on recent facts

they were a good regular season team this year.. they had a very easy first round match up. and then they were able to beat us

is beating us the mark of a super powerhouse team that sets the gold standard for the nhl?

how small is Pittsburgh?
Crosby is a 'small guy' at only 5'11 but a powerful jacked 200 pounds
malkin is not small at 6'3 and pushing 200
hornqvist is only 5'11 and around 190 so a bit smallish I guess
kessel 6'0 and 200 but doesn't really play big
guentzel is only 5'11 and 180
but brassard has decent size at 6'1 and 202
rust 5'11 and 190ish... not a giant
shery who was a smurf was shown the door
sheehan was a strategic pickup... 6'3 and 214
reeves was also given a try

wonder if pittsburg felt they were too small and were trying to bulk up a bit? they won back to back cups but their moves were all aimed at bringing in bigger stronger players and getting rid of the one smurf they felt was getting pushed around and not performing

This post is bad even for you.

All aimed at bringing in stronger players, yet shipped out Reaves to bring in Brassard.

Sheary was part of the team for two cups, and is gone now mostly because of cap reasons. Not because he's small.

How many cups did they win with Sheahan again?

If your going to use Pittsburgh to emphasize a point. You could at least stick to their rosters when they actually won cups, not afterwards.
 

Chief Nine

Registered User
May 31, 2015
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It is something.
But that's yours and a few other's opinions much like mine and a few others believe the Bruins need to add size and toughness. Not going to get into a pissing match with you once again, so move on.

The points he and others are making is:

A) Nobody is saying that they want a team full of 5' 10" speedsters

B) Size and toughness are no guarantees to win a Cup
 
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Alberta_OReilly_Fan

Bruin fan since 1975
Nov 26, 2006
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Edmonton Canada
This post is bad even for you.

All aimed at bringing in stronger players, yet shipped out Reaves to bring in Brassard.

Sheary was part of the team for two cups, and is gone now mostly because of cap reasons. Not because he's small.

How many cups did they win with Sheahan again?

If your going to use Pittsburgh to emphasize a point. You could at least stick to their rosters when they actually won cups, not afterwards.

you are arguing that the nhl is moving towards all small speedy players. im suggesting that the 2 most successful teams are moving towards bigger stronger lineups

speed and skill are very good... but not at the cost of becoming soft smurfs

the teams that win have speedy skilled big strong players.

id like to see someone smart like you tell us who you feel the best 50 forwards in the nhl are now... see how many are under 180 pounds? I could make my own list... but you don't really care who I think the top 50 players are. your list would be more interesting I think
 

Chief Nine

Registered User
May 31, 2015
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Washington capitals
Ovechkin 6'3 and 235
Wilson 6'4 and 220
knutsov a small 6'2 and around 200
Backstrom 6'1 and 200
Connolly 6'3 and 198
eller 6'2 and 207
beagle 6'3 and 218
oshie… the midget of the bunch at 5'11 and 195
peluso and chaison… big 6'3 6'4 guys
burakovsky is 6'3 and 200 too

do they have a single forward playing above the 4th line who isn't 6 feet and 200 pounds other than oshie?

sure seem that way for me... and that's a lot of factual information in one post too. the small tampa forwards got pillowed by this capital team

They were pretty big in 2016 too, but they didn't win it all

2016-17 Washington Capitals Roster and Statistics | Hockey-Reference.com
 

Dizzay

Registered User
Jul 8, 2004
3,136
3,823
Moncton
So posts with facts that emphasize your viewpoint...great.

Posts with facts that detract from your viewpoint....move along.

Answer this question.

Why were Tampa Bay forwards able to use their physical play to help defeat the Bruins?

Was it

A) Because they were bigger?

B) Because they were faster and more willing to play physical when it mattered?

I already commented on that post. The guy named off 9 of their 12 forwards, why were the other 3 left off? I'm just curious? I don't feel like researching and I'm not being sarcastic.
I said we should move on because we have differing opinions. There's no right or wrong answer here.
Oh and by the way, I said post of the year because @Alberta_OReilly_Fan had a great post, and did so in a respectful way, not the usual we're so right, everyone else is wrong tone that a few have on here. So content + delivery was what I was commenting on. Just so we're clear.
 
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BruinDust

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
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you are arguing that the nhl is moving towards all small speedy players. im suggesting that the 2 most successful teams are moving towards bigger stronger lineups

speed and skill are very good... but not at the cost of becoming soft smurfs

the teams that win have speedy skilled big strong players.

id like to see someone smart like you tell us who you feel the best 50 forwards in the nhl are now... see how many are under 180 pounds? I could make my own list... but you don't really care who I think the top 50 players are. your list would be more interesting I think

I'm not arguing that at all. I've always said you need a balance. But yes, the NHL as a whole, forward groups on average are getting progressively smaller and faster. Whether a player is big, or small, you need to be able to skate decent enough. TB forwards weren't the biggest group, but they were faster than the Bruins forwards and willing to play physical despite their size.

No one is saying the Bruins are becoming soft smurfs. Who is suggesting that? But every day someone comes on this board and whines about the Bruins being soft and small.

You mention Pittsburgh, well it was noticeable during both their cups runs how often their forwards would lay-off on potential hits on D-men who just moved the puck, in favour of getting back faster and outnumbering opposing team attackers with that swarming man-to-man system they employed.

My Top 50 forwards? I could go Top 100, there are a lot of very good forwards in today's league, the gap between No.50 and No.100 wouldn't be that big. And why is 180 lbs your benchmark? Is a guy whose 5-10 185 big in your eyes, but if he lost 5 lbs now he's small? Besides player weights from website to website are all over the map, and player weights change throughout the season, so your benchmark is pointless.

Even some of the best forwards are big guys but aren't really physical. Connor McDavid is 6-1 195 according to some websites, and averages 0.25 hits a game. Auston Matthews is even bigger (6'3, 205) and records less hits than McDavid does.

Just using your benchmark of 180 lbs, going by TSN, the players the majority of all this softness talk is pointed towards is the young wingers. Well 3 out of 4 pass your benchmark of 185 lbs, all are 6 feet tall or above. So is size really the issue, or is it a willingness to play physical?
 
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BruinDust

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
24,370
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I already commented on that post. The guy named off 9 of their 12 forwards, why were the other 3 left off? I'm just curious? I don't feel like researching and I'm not being sarcastic.
I said we should move on because we have differing opinions. There's no right or wrong answer here.
Oh and by the way, I said post of the year because @Alberta_OReilly_Fan had a great post, and did so in a respectful way, not the usual we're so right, everyone else is wrong tone that a few have on here. So content + delivery was what I was commenting on. Just so we're clear.

The bolded is really the true answer. There is no perfect way to build a team, and no perfect roster in a cap system. Personally I think a lot of playoff success now is match-ups, a bit of luck of the draw, not necessarily based on who has more points, but style of play, systems, etc.

And not necessarily who has the more talented group. Some years it goes your way, some years it won't, even if you have a really good team on paper or how good they are in the regular season. LA last year were the leagues best defensive team, and got absolutely steamrolled against Vegas. They couldn't even keep up with them. Meanwhile has they gotten say a Nashville or Winnipeg, they might of fared a bit better, not saying they win, but at least be more competitive. And pretty much everyone would agree the Jets and Preds had more talented teams on paper than Vegas.
 
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Alberta_OReilly_Fan

Bruin fan since 1975
Nov 26, 2006
14,331
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Edmonton Canada
I'm not arguing that at all. I've always said you need a balance. But yes, the NHL as a whole, forward groups on average are getting progressively smaller and faster. Whether a player is big, or small, you need to be able to skate decent enough. TB forwards weren't the biggest group, but they were faster than the Bruins forwards and willing to play physical despite their size.

No one is saying the Bruins are becoming soft smurfs. Who is suggesting that? But every day someone comes on this board and whines about the Bruins being soft and small.

You mention Pittsburgh, well it was noticeable during both their cups runs how often their forwards would lay-off on potential hits on D-men who just moved the puck, in favour of getting back faster and outnumbering opposing team attackers with that swarming man-to-man system they employed.

My Top 50 forwards? I could go Top 100, there are a lot of very good forwards in today's league, the gap between No.50 and No.100 wouldn't be that big. And why is 180 lbs your benchmark? Is a guy whose 5-10 185 big in your eyes, but if he lost 5 lbs now he's small? Besides player weights from website to website are all over the map, and player weights change throughout the season, so your benchmark is pointless.

Even some of the best forwards are big guys but aren't really physical. Connor McDavid is 6-1 195 according to some websites, and averages 0.25 hits a game. Auston Matthews is even bigger (6'3, 205) and records less hits than McDavid does.

Just using your benchmark of 180 lbs, going by TSN, the players the majority of all this softness talk is pointed towards is the young wingers. Well 3 out of 4 pass your benchmark of 185 lbs, all are 6 feet tall or above. So is size really the issue, or is it a willingness to play physical?

willingness to play physical is important...but durability becomes a problem more often in smaller guys when they are equally physical to bigger guys. also if they are equally physical their effectiveness is less

but id rather have a willing small guy like brad marchand than a log like jimmy hayes

marty st louis and theon fleury had all the fire in the world in their bodies and refused to be intimidated. but ive seen some big 6'3 guys get intimidated

I also have argued having a goon on the team does almost nothing to protect the team. goons don't protect anyone.

being teammates… being there for each other... having each others back... pack mentality...

but it needs a leader... it needs the lead dog. there has to be a culture that everyone is following or there needs to be strong physical leadership

ive seen Edmonton with all their goons repeatedly look the other way when their best players are molested. it kills the teams chances to win

all this blind devotion to speed and skill is coming at a price that wont lead to any success. there must be a balance. speed and skill is more valuable when it comes along with the size and grit
 

Fenian24

Registered User
Jun 14, 2010
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I'll take Brendan Gallagher, Andrew Shaw, JC Lipon and Mike Liambas on the team, all are small but all play a tough game. I would trade any two of the vaunted forward prospects for Gallagher today
 

Alberta_OReilly_Fan

Bruin fan since 1975
Nov 26, 2006
14,331
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Edmonton Canada
They were pretty big in 2016 too, but they didn't win it all

2016-17 Washington Capitals Roster and Statistics | Hockey-Reference.com

I could name the 10 smallest teams in 2016-2017 and im sure none of them won it either

funny how that works... only 1 team wins

how big were the penguins? one of the 15 smallest teams or one of the 15 biggest?

when was the last time one of the 15 smallest teams won the cup? has it ever happened since the days of a 21 team league?

bruins weren't small when we won... kings weren't... Chicago wasn't particularly small... Anaheim sure wasn't... how far do we have to go back to find a small team that won?

I am not going to do the research but if you wanted to prove to us small teams can win the cup... I invite you to find us an example
 

Chief Nine

Registered User
May 31, 2015
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I could name the 10 smallest teams in 2016-2017 and im sure none of them won it either

funny how that works... only 1 team wins

how big were the penguins? one of the 15 smallest teams or one of the 15 biggest?

when was the last time one of the 15 smallest teams won the cup? has it ever happened since the days of a 21 team league?

bruins weren't small when we won... kings weren't... Chicago wasn't particularly small... Anaheim sure wasn't... how far do we have to go back to find a small team that won?

I am not going to do the research but if you wanted to prove to us small teams can win the cup... I invite you to find us an example

Isn't it more about roster construction, chemistry, health, goaltending and a boatload of luck than size?
 

wintersej

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Playing big + being big + skill > willingness to "play big" despite lack of size + skill > Being and playing big but not being skilled > soft + skilled > Jimmy Hayes
 
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Alberta_OReilly_Fan

Bruin fan since 1975
Nov 26, 2006
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Edmonton Canada
Isn't it more about roster construction, chemistry and a boatload of luck than size?
yes yes and yes

but if 2 equal teams are playing and one outweighs the other by an average of 10 pounds... its like

watching 14 year olds play 12 year olds

its like watching men play women

its like watching dogs fight with cats

size will always be a benefit in physical encoungers

but you are correct... roster construction, chemistry, and luck are very very important too

im only arguing that too many smaller players are poor roster construction... will invariably hurt chemistry when the team gets pushed around... and probably wont result in a lucky ending

and for what its worth... too many big players that cant play would suck too.

the idea optimum best option is to find enough big players that can play... and then support them with smaller players who can also play
 

Chief Nine

Registered User
May 31, 2015
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yes yes and yes

but if 2 equal teams are playing and one outweighs the other by an average of 10 pounds... its like

watching 14 year olds play 12 year olds

its like watching men play women

its like watching dogs fight with cats


size will always be a benefit in physical encoungers

but you are correct... roster construction, chemistry, and luck are very very important too

im only arguing that too many smaller players are poor roster construction... will invariably hurt chemistry when the team gets pushed around... and probably wont result in a lucky ending

and for what its worth... too many big players that cant play would suck too.

the idea optimum best option is to find enough big players that can play... and then support them with smaller players who can also play

I'm not so sure that I agree with the bolded, but I get what you're saying. To me, it's all about what I mentioned before and a huge dose of luck and heart. Case in point, the Washington Capitals. Ovi finally got his shot and he wasn't gonna fail no matter who stood in the way. It was his time. And he led his team like a captain for a change because he finally got focused at the right time
 

Alberta_OReilly_Fan

Bruin fan since 1975
Nov 26, 2006
14,331
3,941
Edmonton Canada
I'm not so sure that I agree with the bolded, but I get what you're saying. To me, it's all about what I mentioned before and a huge dose of luck and heart. Case in point, the Washington Capitals. Ovi finally got his shot and he wasn't gonna fail no matter who stood in the way. It was his time. And he led his team like a captain for a change because he finally got focused at the right time


id probably argue at the start of any playoffs... smart people like you and I will build arguments for at least 8 different teams why we are 'betting' on that team

not all these teams are the biggest... only 1 is
not all are the fastest... only 1 is
not all have the best goaltending
or the healthiest
or the deepest
not all are the youngest or most experienced
not all get the best ref breaks
not all are the most desperate

theres always a bit of this... a bit of that... and ultimately only 1 of these 8 teams can win. we will be wrong about the other 7 teams.

it doesn't matter how good we thought those other 7 teams are... we will be wrong about saying they were going to win. most teams that have a good chance of winning will still end up losing

so... I just think being bigger {all things equal} is an advantage over being smaller

but I will never argue that being small is a guarantee of sucking. I will argue being too small is a guarantee of losing. I think theres definitely a threshold that you cant go beyond

so when we start getting close... I personally will ask for more size. and honestly, I don't even want to get close. so I am asking for more size now even though I think with chara, backes, mcquaid we don't run a huge risk of being pushed around this year. I just worry these guys are getting older and we don't have a lot of younger guys with any size to replace them
 
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