Alexis Lafreniere disappointing season start? PART 2

[surixon]

And Mackinnon had an excellent rookie year that he then improved upon. I have no doubt Laf is struggling with confidence, and that we'll see improvement from him. But he's not a Mark Scheifele type of prospect. I think he's as physically developed at 18/19 as guys like Mackinnon, Landeskog, and Matthews were.

You are right they aren't the same type of prospects it just an example of prospects developing at different rates.

I dont believe Lafreniere is struggling due to where he is in his physical development. I see his issues as being more mental/confidence based. To me he is deferring too much to other players, he is getting rid of the puck very quickly, and he isn't trying to impose himself on the game like he did in junior or at the WJC.

Just him getting confident and changing his mindset and going for it like Tim has will likely make him look a world different the he looks now.

 

[Voight]

Same could be said about Mackinnon when he joined the NHL but he exploded as he hit his physical prime. You just never know, confidence can make all the difference to in players.

I think the trade of Duchene was the kicker. The Avs truly became "his team" in a way and it gave him the confidence to up his play.

 

[I Hate Philadelphia]

How does he have 0 assists in 17 games?

Because he isn't an NHL-caliber player at the moment. Being rushed for no real reason other than to live up to the hype that he came in with.

 

[Woncka]

What backs up this type of argument then if objective sources are not good sources to look at? Also, you are taking my words way too literally. I think the Rangers pretty clearly have the better future. I think any objective Devils fans should admit that. An objective Ducks fan would admit the Kings have a better future than the Ducks.

I dont think theres anything 'objective' when saying The Rangers have a 'clearly' better future.

in fact, theres a vote on the subject right now that has the Rangers ahead by two percentage points

The Rangers have the better current roster with Zibanejad, Panarin, and Trouba. But NJ has the better prospect pool - and once Lafreniere is no longer considered, itll be even moreso. Plus NJ's 1st overalls are centers and not wingers.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I dont think theres anything 'objective' when saying The Rangers have a 'clearly' better future.

in fact, theres a vote on the subject right now that has the Rangers ahead by two percentage points

The Rangers have the better current roster with Zibanejad, Panarin, and Trouba. But NJ has the better prospect pool - and once Lafreniere is no longer considered, itll be even moreso. Plus NJ's 1st overalls are centers and not wingers.

As I said, I think current opinion is largely influenced by that the Rangers have had a terrible month and a half. A month and a half ago I have little doubt that poll you reference would be heavily in the Rangers favor. This website is notoriously fickle.

You are also misplacing the objectivity here. I said that even Devils fans should say the Rangers rebuild is better. Thats where the objectivity term comes in. My objectivity is irrelevant. I believe I’m being objective in stating that, but I already said that this merely my own opinion. You can feel free to disagree. My objectivity or lack thereof is irrelevant. I’m not part of those Devils fans I referenced.

 

[Woncka]

As I said, I think current opinion is largely influenced by that the Rangers have had a terrible month and a half. A month and a half ago I have little doubt that poll you reference would be heavily in the Rangers favor. This website is notoriously fickle.

You are also misplacing the objectivity here. I said that even Devils fans should say the Rangers rebuild is better. Thats where the objectivity term comes in. My objectivity is irrelevant. I believe I’m being objective in stating that, but I already said that this merely my own opinion. You can feel free to disagree. My objectivity or lack thereof is irrelevant. I’m not part of those Devils fans I referenced.

You cant state objectivity as an opinion - they are mutually exclusive

 

[nbwingsfan]

Because he isn't an NHL-caliber player at the moment. Being rushed for no real reason other than to live up to the hype that he came in with.

Yes he is? He isn't hurting his team.

What is your solution? Send him down to Junior to play on a bottom feeder team for like 10 more games until the Q season is done?

 

[sawchuk1971]

why did the rangers let brady skjei go?

could someone answer this question?

 

[Woncka]

why did the rangers let brady skjei go?

could someone answer this question?

They also let Pionk go

their defensive systems were terrible and they thought it was the talent. Their system is still really bad, Fox is The only one consistently strong

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

 

[cudi]

To be fair, he's a radio host in Ottawa with A LOT of Sens fans voting in this poll. I'd be shocked if Timmy wasnt ahead like he is.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

And if you tripled Lafreniere's 5v5 production to account for on ice sh%, he'd have 4 points?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

This isn't to discredit Stuetzle because I think the larger issue is how people are evaluating Lafreiere as opposed to Stuetzle, but this and his subsequent tweets are so obvious to anyone who evaluates this fairly towards Lafreniere.

I don't think anyone's happy with how Lafreniere is playing, but if you are watching these games and seriously believe he's struggling, I don't know what you are watching. He's okay. He's also 19 years old. Being okay in the NHL at 19 is not hugely worrying, although everyone did expect better. The people suggesting he needs to be sent elsewhere are only looking at the boxscore.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

When I watch Senators games, the games are wide open, like pond hockye or shinny on a Friday night. They have a -33 goal diff in the North (nO dEfEnSe) Division. I feel like Stutzle simply has had more free reign and leash to freelance and show what he can do offensively based on how his team plays and manages games.

The Rangers have a bad record but they're only -3 diff in a better division, they're in most of their games til the end and Laff sitts for long stretches because he doesn't play special teams (outside of mop up 2nd unit duty that piles up) and he's had to move up and down the lineup, and never had steady linemates for long stretch.

I know it's hard to make excuses for a highly touted 1st overall but if you watch the Rangers and how they are managing games, using Laff and what not it's just really hard for him to get involved and contribute. Mika Zibanejad who was an elite player last year had 2 non empty net points before last nights game with way more opportunity and chances to succeed.

It's disappointing that he's not maing more of an impact and contributing more but it is what it is.

 

[imMagnum]

I’m not buying the whole “he’s better than the box score suggests” argument. Laf is currently a non-impact, redundant player in this league. There are numerous AHLers that bring more to the table than Laf does at this moment.

Yes, he’s got lots of potential. But to tell us that he currently belongs in the NHL by way of an eye test is really reaching. I would question if people are actually watching the Rangers games if they think Laf is underperforming due to bad luck.

 

[majormajor]

When I watch Senators games, the games are wide open, like pond hockye or shinny on a Friday night. They have a -33 goal diff in the North (nO dEfEnSe) Division. I feel like Stutzle simply has had more free reign and leash to freelance and show what he can do offensively based on how his team plays and manages games.

I understand that Stutzle is getting a bit more leash, that certainly helps. But his line is Stutzle-Stepan-Batherson, it's not really an easier job. What gives me pause about Laf in the Laf-Stutzle comparison is not so much the points so far, it's that Stutzle is just a much more high-motor player, he's always in the action. People excused Lafreniere's effort last year by saying that he was too good for junior, but I'm now concerned that he just doesn't have a good enough motor to fully express his other talents. He'll be good either way, but it might stop him from being elite.

 

[Machinehead]

why did the rangers let brady skjei go?

could someone answer this question?

He sucks.

 

[Machinehead]

They also let Pionk go

their defensive systems were terrible and they thought it was the talent. Their system is still really bad, Fox is The only one consistently strong

Couldn't care less about either of these guys. When we're healthy, Skjei-Pionk would be our third pair. We were defending fine before the injuries.

And our pipeline on defense is absolutely absurd. Lundkvist, Reunanen, Jones, Schneider, Robertson.

We got assets for two guys we didn't need at all. I wish them well.

 

[Machinehead]

I’m not buying the whole “he’s better than the box score suggests” argument. Laf is currently a non-impact, redundant player in this league. There are numerous AHLers that bring more to the table than Laf does at this moment.

Yes, he’s got lots of potential. But to tell us that he currently belongs in the NHL by way of an eye test is really reaching. I would question if people are actually watching the Rangers games if they think Laf is underperforming due to bad luck.

Players that don't do much in the NHL but don't really hurt your team are NHL players.

Our lineup is filled with AHL players with all the guys we have hurt and I can assure you, Lafreniere is better right now than all of them.

I wouldn't be against putting him in the AHL to adapt to the men's game if we could have, but the narrative that he's not even an NHL player is just false. I'd take him right now over every 4th liner the Rangers have had since Dom Moore.

 

[jaywills1020]

As a Rangers fan I’ll say I’m not impressed with him. At the same time I can guarantee a coaching change will change all of that.

 

[Nihiliste]

Hm? MacKinnon had 63 points in his rookie season, which was one of the strongest rookie seasons. This after coming to the league at a very young age, over a year younger than Lafreniere in fact. So this comparison is, of course, absurd.

And then he regressed until his big breakout season

 

[Woncka]

Couldn't care less about either of these guys. When we're healthy, Skjei-Pionk would be our third pair. We were defending fine before the injuries.

And our pipeline on defense is absolutely absurd. Lundkvist, Reunanen, Jones, Schneider, Robertson.

We got assets for two guys we didn't need at all. I wish them well.

This is true (though I think Pionk would do well on the PP instead of Trouba)

 

[Nihiliste]

MacKinnon won a Calder his rookie season. He didn’t have 2 points in 17 games.

Mackinnon played on a team with Stastny, Duchene, O’reilly, Landeskog, and Barrie. That’s a lot of offensive weapons to work with. He remained a 60 point player until the year Duchene was traded and he stepped up

 

[Machinehead]

This is true (though I think Pionk would do well on the PP instead of Trouba)

He would but I'd rather let Fox get those minutes. If there's anything he could stand to improve (and probably could if he gets the reps) it's PPQB.

 

[Woncka]

He would but I'd rather let Fox get those minutes. If there's anything he could stand to improve (and probably could if he gets the reps) it's PPQB.

Conversely, id prefer Fox not play PP time (at least not first unit). His defensive game serves more value than if hes putting more time and effort into PP and then is tired late game

But this is just a discussion about the difference of :30-1:30 a game at this point lol