Alex Barkov wins the Selke

[PB37]

I think that 2nd tweet does a great job of summing it up. I don’t trust these “player isolation” models fully.

From an xGF% standpoint, the Barkov line was the best in the NHL this season. Consider the teammates and you quickly get to your answer on why and the result we have for the Selke trophy.

So XGF% is the metric behind defensive dominance deserving of a Selke?

 

[Oan]

Clearly wrong analytics won this time.

 

[Mestaruus]

Well deserved Barkov. Maybe he can win it again next season.

 

[Auto Pilot]

Again:

Marchand - Bergeron - Pasternak

Verheaghe/Tippett - Barkov - Marchment/Duclair

Pacioretty - Tuch - Stone

Who of Bergeron / Barkov / Stone has the least support? 2 of the players have solid 1st liners to play with, 1 has 3rd liners.

I`d like to see what Barkov would do if put here:

Marchand - Barkov - Pasternak

I bet he would have 100+ points in a full season and his defensive numbers would also skyrocket.

You have no clue what you’re talking about. Genuinely.

just say you don’t understand advanced stats and that you forgot they take into account the players they play with. Barkov not having better support does not impact him being worse individually on defense than the other two.

 

[PB37]

I think that 2nd tweet does a great job of summing it up. I don’t trust these “player isolation” models fully.

From an xGF% standpoint, the Barkov line was the best in the NHL this season. Consider the teammates and you quickly get to your answer on why and the result we have for the Selke trophy.

Also, further down that tweet

 

[Auto Pilot]

You make a better argument if you actually post those numbers you're referring to.

I posted the charts. Sorry you intentionally skipped over them.

[MOD]

 

[Auto Pilot]

Then compare that to who Bergeron plays with compared to who Barkov's linemates are.

The charts take this into account. Maybe the Barkov defenders should actually know what theyre talking about before getting defensive about people rightfully saying he’s not the best defensive forward of the bunch.

 

[Stubu]

I posted the charts. Sorry you intentionally skipped over them.

Sorry, I replied before checking the rest of the thread. Indeed your chart was on the very next page of the convo. Nothing intentional, just sloppy of me.

 

[Duke749]

The voting seems so random the further down you go. Don’t know why media members who are no more knowledgeable then quite a few posters on these boards get to vote. They just make it seem like a joke at times.

Also, congrats Barkov and Florida fans. I know y’all couldn’t be more proud. Hope y’all can keep building on what you got down there.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Stone robbed. It’s the least legit of the “big awards” though as it’s so heavily reputation based

 

[PB37]

Stone robbed. It’s the least legit of the “big awards” though as it’s so heavily reputation based

Stone is going to have to put up a monster year and hope some of the top end Selke caliber centers have off years to get a win. Centers simply are put into position to have a greater emphasis and impact on defense than wingers, even the great ones like Stone and Marchand.

 

[The National]

Do voters look at numbers before voting?

 

[jcs0218]

The fact that Henrik Zetterberg never won a Selke has caused this award to lose a bit of meaning to me.

He was the greatest "shadow" I have seen in the last 20 years.

You want a superstar on the other team erased? Just have Zetterberg throw a blanket over them.

Instead the voters kept giving the award to Datsyuk because of his "takeaways" statistic.

I have heard Mike Babcock say on more than one occasion that Zetterberg was his go-to shutdown forward.

Look at the job Zetterberg did to Crosby in back-to-back Finals. And I am a huge Crosby fan.

 

[bondra]

With a season Barkov had, its cringe worthy people have balls to whine about Barky's win.

If Barkov would be non finnish and playing in bigger market would this happen? I doubt.

 

[Buck Naked]

The fact that Henrik Zetterberg never won a Selke has caused this award to lose a bit of meaning to me.

He was the greatest "shadow" I have seen in the last 20 years.

You want a superstar on the other team erased? Just have Zetterberg throw a blanket over them.

Instead the voters kept giving the award to Datsyuk because of his "takeaways" statistic.

I have heard Mike Babcock say on more than one occasion that Zetterberg was his go-to shutdown forward.

Look at the job Zetterberg did to Crosby in back-to-back Finals. And I am a huge Crosby fan.

This. Datsyuk was a wizard on the ice, but in terms of defending and shutting down the other team he was very overrated.

 

[Alexandrov]

Barkov had 4x the 1st place votes that the next best guy had. A LANDSLIDE! Well deserved

 

[burstnbloom]

Relative to different things. You can dig out any amount of individual relative statistics but it still won't change the fact that there's 5 other players on the ice with him.

except they normalize for line mates. Look, I get it. You don’t want people besmirching your favorite player who also happens to be a 99th percentile player. It feels nitpicky. But the argument isn’t that advanced stats are wrong when you don’t get how they work. It’s that you don’t believe in them, that’s fine

but the point remains, barkov, while great, didn’t actually even have a positive defensive impact this season and just won the defensive award. meanwhile, my guy, was provably the best defensive asset on the best defensive team and didn’t win it because hockey writers won’t let him pass bob gainey. The whole process is stupid to the point of meaning nothing because the people who vote on it are lazy and dumb.

 

[Reality Czech]

After reading this thread, maybe they need to make the Corsi Award (completely based on advanced stats) to satisfy the analytics crowd.

 

[ijuka]

Cool, although I don't think he should win it over Stone.

After reading this thread, maybe they need to make the Corsi Award (completely based on advanced stats) to satisfy the analytics crowd.

Is Barkov the league leader in plus/minus then? Or what exactly?

 

[TGWL]

'Ah, the thread where everyone tell you what analytic data, or eye test, deserves to prove who wins the award.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

I think that 2nd tweet does a great job of summing it up. I don’t trust these “player isolation” models fully.

From an xGF% standpoint, the Barkov line was the best in the NHL this season. Consider the teammates and you quickly get to your answer on why and the result we have for the Selke trophy.

Difficult to compare this season with the varying divisions. Barkov in the top 3 is justified, but the landslide vote with 11 voters leaving Bergeron out of the top 5 shows how hard these "media" personalities are trying to be MLB's award voters. It is a terrible look. A new system for voting where competent voters, such as peers or management, decide the award winners would be ideal.

 

[FinlandPanther]

except they normalize for line mates. Look, I get it. You don’t want people besmirching your favorite player who also happens to be a 99th percentile player. It feels nitpicky. But the argument isn’t that advanced stats are wrong when you don’t get how they work. It’s that you don’t believe in them, that’s fine

but the point remains, barkov, while great, didn’t actually even have a positive defensive impact this season and just won the defensive award. meanwhile, my guy, was provably the best defensive asset on the best defensive team and didn’t win it because hockey writers won’t let him pass bob gainey. The whole process is stupid to the point of meaning nothing because the people who vote on it are lazy and dumb.

“Didn’t have a positive impact” lmao.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Guess we need rename this award the "Ambiguous Heat-Map Award" or some people will never be happy

 

[Mickey Marner]

Also, further down that tweet

Trap Jesus sighting.

 

[freecheese]

Barkov is an elite- 2-way floor raiser while the other 2 are moreso defensive specialists. It’s much harder to do what Barkov does every night considering that he is also an offensive hub. TOP 5 player in the game.