AHL Affiliate Thread - Send them the Wolves

[hblueridgegal]

 

[hblueridgegal]

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

Checkers consistently gave our top prospects high ice time. Specific example, Gauthier was playing on the first line until we traded him. That was good for us, because ice time is THE biggest correlator with player development.

If the idea here is that we sign more veterans and stick them on the top line, that means Gauthier is no longer on the top line. What happens when we go to trade him? The other GM wants to know why he should give more than future considerations for a guy who wasn't even producing at the AHL level. Replicate this across a bunch of prospects and it takes a toll.

Again, specific examples. Five years ago the Checkers were affiliated with us and the Wolves were affiliated with St. Louis. Here are the players who spent 60+ games with each team, and how many NHL games they played from that season forward:

Charlotte
Danny Biega - 10
Patrick Brown - 29
Trevor Carrick - 7
Phil di Giuseppe - 170
Kyle Hagel
Ben Holmstrom
Chad LaRose
Brock McGinn - 308
Justin Shugg - 3
Jared Staal
Brendan Woods - 7

Chicago
Rob Bordson
Mathieu Brodeur
Pat Cannone - 3
Jani Hakanpaa - 5
Shane Harper - 14
Phil McRae
Brent Regner - 7
Jeremy Welsh - 27
Yannick Veilleux

Charlotte was both a more stable and more productive environment for prospects. That is just one season, but the results will replicate long-term because that's who the Chicago Wolves are in the world of minor league hockey.

We want to talk about contributions to our deep playoff run? If Brock McGinn plays for Chicago in 2015, in all likelihood he is not on the ice to score that OT GWG. Choice of affiliate has a very real impact at the NHL level... these organizations are not all the same.

This is a serious post and very good post, but the biggest takeaway I'm getting from it is that PDG managed to skate in almost 200 nhl games.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I don't have exact lines from 2018 in front of me, but the stats from that year indicate that the top-6 wingers were Zykov, Foegele, Kuokkanen, and Saarela. The first three ended up being called up to the Canes before Gauthier and playing more games in Raleigh than him, so it makes sense they would be ahead of him in the lineup as prospects. Saarela of course was a sad bust, but he was a bust that the Hurricanes had invested in and certainly none of us would have disagreed with him being in the lineup over Goat back in 2018.

This is all a very different scenario than hiding a Gauthier level prospect behind independently-contracted AHL veterans, which is what Chicago has done since 1994.



I didn't say anything like that. I'm saying the idea that the Wolves are going to sign a bunch of veterans to contend for the Calder Cup and simultaneously make a priority of developing our prospects... that's pure fantasy. They're not going to do both of those things, they have a history of doing the first one exclusively, and doing the first one has already been specifically identified by Don Waddell as a "perk" of the affiliation.

We own the coaching staff. Chicago doesnt. Chicago is just a surrogate footing part of the bill. Its pretty easy to understand.

 

[hblueridgegal]

Feel for Suzuki and Domi ...having to don those ugly sweaters.

Lots of vet talk it seems.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

So it sounds like it was Charlotte that wanted to split from the Canes and not vise-versa, but the reason for which is up in the air (or not something they want to air publicly).

 

[HisIceness]

I bet Levin pisses off Dundon somehow and Tom takes his toy and leaves. Somehow I see that happening, they may play nice for now but something will happen that causes a rift.

And lol at the Wolves keeping their ugly uniforms.

 

[tarheelhockey]

We own the coaching staff. Chicago doesnt. Chicago is just a surrogate footing part of the bill. Its pretty easy to understand.

Again, I'll believe that when I see it. Dundon is not the only owner and Waddell is not the only GM involved here. The Chicago Wolves have never been an organization to have its strings pulled that way.

 

[hblueridgegal]

Sounds like it's all about the benjamins to me.

 

[GoldiFox]

Sounds like it's all about the benjamins to me.

I guess the insinuation is that maybe Charlotte was asking the Canes for financial help to play next year if no fans were allowed.

 

[HisIceness]

If it turns out that the Checkers are the "bad guy" here, then shame on them I guess. That still doesn't mean I'm happy with this news.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

not needing help from us to play next year is huuuuuuuge. The financial implications that Chicago would easily be worth the deal and will play next year is great. I guess the prospects would get more ice time not playing in Charlotte altogether than the Chicago GM/ Owner mAnDaTed ice time would give to the Carolina owned coach during real games.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I guess the insinuation is that maybe Charlotte was asking the Canes for financial help to play next year if no fans were allowed.

That doesn’t make sense with the January timeframe for opening negotiations with Chicago. Back in January nobody was talking about cancelling the 2020-21 season.

Also, the idea of having an AHL without fans is moot. The business fundamentals of that league only make sense with fans in the building. If they can’t do that they’ll simply shut down.

 

[emptyNedder]

not needing help from us to play next year is huuuuuuuge. The financial implications that Chicago would easily be worth the deal and will play next year is great.

So Florida—an organization whose owner has already floated expense reductions—had an affiliation with Springfield, which isn't close to the parent club, yet chose the mean ol' Checkers?

Is that a contradiction to the second-shooter on the grassy knoll?

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

So Florida—an organization whose owner has already floated expense reductions—had an affiliation with Springfield, which isn't close to the parent club, yet chose the mean ol' Checkers?

Is that a contradiction to the second-shooter on the grassy knoll?

so the owner should choose the worse of 2 situations because its what you want him to even though he is footing the bill?

 

[Joe McGrath]

The Checkers have really only started properly developing f***ing anybody in the last few years. It was the goddamn prospect graveyard forever. Does anyone think that maybe it doesn’t matter as much WHERE the development takes place as it does the players you’re actually dealing with?

Chicago’s last 2 affiliates were what Vegas and St. Louis? Yeah those teams are having a real rough go of it at the NHL level......

 

[GoldiFox]

That doesn’t make sense with the January timeframe for opening negotiations with Chicago. Back in January nobody was talking about cancelling the 2020-21 season.

Also, the idea of having an AHL without fans is moot. The business fundamentals of that league only make sense with fans in the building. If they can’t do that they’ll simply shut down.

The contract with the Checkers was expiring and I have to believe Dundon would have asked to explore options for a better deal. Chicago was an obvious choice to negotiate with given Waddell's history. We've been hearing every month since the season was delayed that we will get news soon. It doesn't sound like the decision was made until recently.


Just trying to decipher what they mean in this statement. Sounds like there is a bubble consideration or something based on the "regardless of where games are played" part.

 

[emptyNedder]

so the owner should chose the worse of 2 situations because its what you want him to even though he is footing the bill?

I can't get to Charlotte in less than 11 hours, so it is not what I want. I was just pointing out that there is a lot of massaging the narrative. Florida willingly taking a worse option—there were never any rumors of the Panthers opening discussions with Chicago—doesn't add up.
As tarheel pointed out the discussions between the Canes and Chicago started pre-COVID.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I can't get to Charlotte in less than 11 hours, so it is not what I want. I was just pointing out that there is a lot of massaging the narrative. Florida willingly taking a worse option—there were never any rumors of the Panthers opening discussions with Chicago—doesn't add up.
As tarheel pointed out the discussions between the Canes and Chicago started pre-COVID.

Just because they started in January doesnt mean they ended in January. A deal like this doesnt come together in a week. There a bunch of ends and outs to review and agree to. Read an article from 2013 where some AHL affiliates get as specific as which party pays for the shampoo in the locker room shower.

 

[WreckingCrew]

2 goals are:
1) Win Championships (2019)
2) Develop players (Goat, Bean, Fleury, Foegele, Wallmark, Geekie, McGinn, Necas)

So it sounds like it was Charlotte that wanted to split from the Canes and not vise-versa, but the reason for which is up in the air (or not something they want to air publicly).

If they wanted the Checkers to pay for veteran players on NHL contracts using money from their thin profit margins, I understand why...

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

2 goals are:
1) Win Championships (2019)
2) Develop players (Goat, Bean, Fleury, Foegele, Wallmark, Geekie, McGinn, Necas)

If they wanted the Checkers to pay for veteran players on NHL contracts using money from their thin profit margins, I understand why...

you understand Waddell is saying he could develop players and win championships in Chicago, yes? That wasnt why the deal fell apart in Charlotte, yes?

 

[GoldiFox]

I can't get to Charlotte in less than 11 hours, so it is not what I want. I was just pointing out that there is a lot of massaging the narrative. Florida willingly taking a worse option—there were never any rumors of the Panthers opening discussions with Chicago—doesn't add up.
As tarheel pointed out the discussions between the Canes and Chicago started pre-COVID.

If Chicago and Carolina decided to match up, would Florida really have any choice but to affiliate with Charlotte? Wouldn't that be the last partner at the dance? St. Louis had already taken Florida's previous affiliate. Given Waddell's history and the strength of the Canes prospects compared to Florida I would see why the Wolves would prefer Carolina.

 

[tarheelhockey]

The contract with the Checkers was expiring and I have to believe Dundon would have asked to explore options for a better deal. Chicago was an obvious choice to negotiate with given Waddell's history. We've been hearing every month since the season was delayed that we will get news soon. It doesn't sound like the decision was made until recently.


Just trying to decipher what they mean in this statement. Sounds like there is a bubble consideration or something based on the "regardless of where games are played" part.

Oh, I'm perfectly willing to believe they were looking for alternatives back then.

I just don't see them going out and brokering alternative deals back in January, if something post-COVID was the issue. Clearly there was something else going on prior to that point. The thing about "regardless of where games are played" seems like it was tacked on at the end of the negotiation, commentary on how they're thinking about the short-term issue in front of them, rather than being the main point of conflict that caused the Canes and Checkers to break.

 

[Chrispy]

So it sounds like it was Charlotte that wanted to split from the Canes and not vise-versa, but the reason for which is up in the air (or not something they want to air publicly).

It sounds to me like there "wasn't a deal to be made" with the Checkers in the same way there wasn't a deal to be made with Forslund.

 

[tarheelhockey]

It sounds to me like there "wasn't a deal to be made" with the Checkers in the same way there wasn't a deal to be made with Forslund.

I'm not saying Dundon is willing to burn through a lifetime's worth of relationship capital if that's what it takes to create black ink so he can flip the franchise for a profit, but it sure does seem like a lot of the "family" got greedy and overbearing as soon as he came into the picture.