AHL Affiliate Thread - Send them the Wolves

[Canes]

Why would it be petty? If Charlotte's unwillingness to chip in for vets was a main reason that Maenalanen, Brown, and PDG walked and some of those players were contributors to the Canes ECF run then I could see Rod/Waddell feeling that they want a change. Injuries can wreak havoc at the worst times, depth is important.

Seems petty to me since none of those players are the difference between advancing another round or not.

 

[hblueridgegal]

Maybe a dumb question on my part, but how often do affiliations change? Wolves have had 4 (now 5) changes in about 20 years. 10 years with Atlanta (until the Thrashers were no more), 2 years with Vancouver, 4 years with STL, 3 with VGN.

Looking at VAN, they've had 4 affiliates over that stretch: KC blades, Manitoba Moose, Wolves, and Utica Comets. Blues have also had 4 affiliates: Worcester Ice Cats, Peoria Rivermen, Wolves and San Antonio Rampage. Colorado has had 6 Afflilates over that stretch: Hershey, Lowell, Albany, Cleveland, San Antonio, and Colorado. Canes have had 4 over that same stretch: Lowell, Albany, Charlotte and Chicago.

On the flip side, Toronto has had 2: St. Johns and Toronto. NYR has basically had 1 (Wolfpack/Whale).

Just curious how often these affiliations change on average.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Seems petty to me since none of those players are the difference between advancing another round or not.

Could be the difference in getting into the playoffs as a home team or WC, or a WC or not at all.

 

[A Star is Burns]

At this point, I just want to know what's keeping Sara from spilling it. Does she know the team will address it in some way? Trying to walk on egg shells still about what she's willing to put out there to not hurt her access in the future? She seems pretty adamant that the story will make the Canes look good. And I just don't see the money part being the whole story in that case.

 

[tarheelhockey]

If Charlotte's unwillingness to chip in for vets was a main reason that Maenalanen, Brown, and PDG walked

Why would Charlotte chip in for those players? They're on NHL contracts, which were negotiated by the Canes themselves.

Chicago's agreement to help offset NHL-level salary costs is not normal. They are effectively paying off the Canes to partner with them, which goes back to this extremely prescient question:

If they run such a first-class org, why do all the other teams flee from them?

 

[CanesFanBudMan]

Seems petty to me since none of those players are the difference between advancing another round or not.

They made a difference last year in the playoffs

 

[HisIceness]

Why would it be petty? If Charlotte's unwillingness to chip in for vets was a main reason that Maenalanen, Brown, and PDG walked and some of those players were contributors to the Canes ECF run then I could see Rod/Waddell feeling that they want a change. Injuries can wreak havoc at the worst times, depth is important.

PDG didn't even finish the 2018-19 season w/ the Canes anyway. I liked Saku but losing him wasn't that big of a deal. Brown was on the last year of his contract anyway IIRC.

I get what you're saying about injuries but calling up career AHLers to fill in holes isn't going to be the difference between advancing past round 1 or not. If we're talking injuries, then that's when you give the call to guys like Necas and Geekie, players who actually have a legit shot of being an NHLer, not Tim Conboy types.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Why would Charlotte chip in for those players? They're on NHL contracts, which were negotiated by the Canes themselves.

Chicago's agreement to help offset NHL-level salary costs is not normal. They are effectively paying off the Canes to partner with them, which goes back to this extremely prescient question:

Chicago would chip in because its in their interest to be good too. They more veterans we have the better they are too, typically.

 

[GoldiFox]

Seems petty to me since none of those players are the difference between advancing another round or not.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on that point. Maenalanen certainly wasn't a reason the Canes won against Washington/NYI but he was a reason they didn't lose. Look at every team left in TB, NYI, VGK, and DAL and you will see their forward corps are 12 deep in veterans. A goal scored against the 4th line counts just as much as one scored against the 1st.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Chicago would chip in because its in there interest to be good too. They more veterans we have the better they are too, typically.

But why would Charlotte do that? Those are NHL contracts, they are paid for by the NHL team. The purpose of the AHL affiliation fee is to have conditional access to the players, not to have the right to pay off their contracts.

 

[GoldiFox]

Chicago's agreement to help offset NHL-level salary costs is not normal. They are effectively paying off the Canes to partner with them, which goes back to this extremely prescient question:

If the end result is that the Canes have a deeper pool of veterans to callup when injury hits as well as more $$ to spend on their actual NHL roster then I don't see much downside.

Personally I would have preferred them to stick with Charlotte. Although I never went to more than a couple Checkers games and Charlotte to too far IMO to generate much direct revenue for the Canes. Just trying to reason some benefit to the swap.

But why would Charlotte do that? Those are NHL contracts, they are paid for by the NHL team. The purpose of the AHL affiliation fee is to have conditional access to the players, not to have the right to pay off their contracts.

Isn't the obvious reason Charlotte would do that would be to have better talent and win more games? That would seem to be the reason Chicago is going to do it.

 

[Wolfpuck]

Thanks. I hate it.

 

[HisIceness]

Maybe a dumb question on my part, but how often do affiliations change? Wolves have had 4 (now 5) changes in about 20 years. 10 years with Atlanta (until the Thrashers were no more), 2 years with Vancouver, 4 years with STL, 3 with VGN.

Looking at VAN, they've had 4 affiliates over that stretch: KC blades, Manitoba Moose, Wolves, and Utica Comets. Blues have also had 4 affiliates: Worcester Ice Cats, Peoria Rivermen, Wolves and San Antonio Rampage. Colorado has had 6 Afflilates over that stretch: Hershey, Lowell, Albany, Cleveland, San Antonio, and Colorado. Canes have had 4 over that same stretch: Lowell, Albany, Charlotte and Chicago.

On the flip side, Toronto has had 2: St. Johns and Toronto. NYR has basically had 1 (Wolfpack/Whale).

Just curious how often these affiliations change on average.

It seems like now w/ more and more teams wanting to be closer to their affilations that there's fewer changes. Interestingly enough, the Checkers kind of got the ball rolling on that front, because in their first year, the California NHL teams all had their affiliates playing in the Northeast, and now they all play in California. The Stars were in Iowa I think, and they moved to Austin shortly after the Canes/Checkers happened.

 

[Svechhammer]

What's the usual agreement between NHL and AHL affiliates? Do the AHL franchises generally help with the cost of players playing for them or is that typically all on the NHL team?

At the same time, if your contract is up, and one party is willing to help foot the bill on your costs while the other party is telling you that all those costs are on you, you're going to go with the one with the deal sweetener. If this isn't an agreement that is usually between affiliates, then it was smart on Chicago's part to sweeten it to grab our business, and dumb on Charlotte's part for not trying to match.

 

[Svechhammer]

It seems like now w/ more and more teams wanting to be closer to their affilations that there's fewer changes. Interestingly enough, the Checkers kind of got the ball rolling on that front, because in their first year, the California NHL teams all had their affiliates playing in the Northeast, and now they all play in California. The Stars were in Iowa I think, and they moved to Austin shortly after the Canes/Checkers happened.

At the same time, its still a 3 hour drive from Charlotte to Raleigh, and Chicago is a 2 hour flight from Raleigh. The end result might end up being that our callups can respond faster now than in the past.

 

[tarheelhockey]

If the end result is that the Canes have a deeper pool of veterans to callup when injury hits as well as more $$ to spend on their actual NHL roster then I don't see much downside.

And what happens when we send a guy like Necas to the Wolves? Is he going to play ahead of those veterans?

Chicago famously refuses to participate in prospect development. There's a reason they're willing to cost-share to add veterans to their lineup. We have agreed to a situation where the Chad LaRoses are going to be pushing our 1st round draft picks into AHL depth roles.

 

[HisIceness]

At the same time, its still a 3 hour drive from Charlotte to Raleigh, and Chicago is a 2 hour flight from Raleigh. The end result might end up being that our callups can respond faster now than in the past.

Charlotte has daily flights to Raleigh and vice-versa. When we were affiliated w/ Albany their players flew in and out of Charlotte to get to Raleigh. I don't think that end result will change much at all, the only major change is that Chicago is closer to AHL opponents like Milwaukee and Rockford whereas Charlotte was always an outlier, even when Norfolk was in the league.

Also, O'Hare is notoriously bad for delays. I've never had a problem (thank God!) but I know that my experience here isn't typical to most who use this airport.

 

[tarheelhockey]

At the same time, its still a 3 hour drive from Charlotte to Raleigh, and Chicago is a 2 hour flight from Raleigh. The end result might end up being that our callups can respond faster now than in the past.

Anyone who has ever flown back and forth to Chicago knows that it takes a hell of a lot longer than 2 hours to get from one doorstep to the other. You're excluding the time driving to the airport, checking luggage, going through security, boarding the plane, sitting on the tarmac, deboarding the plane, getting luggage, getting to a taxi, and driving from the airport.

And the 21% chance of a lengthy delay or cancellation at O'Hare.

 

[CanesFanBudMan]

And what happens when we send a guy like Necas to the Wolves? Is he going to play ahead of those veterans?

Chicago famously refuses to participate in prospect development. There's a reason they're willing to cost-share to add veterans to their lineup. We have agreed to a situation where the Chad LaRoses are going to be pushing our 1st round draft picks into AHL depth roles.

We got to keep the coaches so maybe the canes will have more control that others have.

 

[Svechhammer]

And what happens when we send a guy like Necas to the Wolves? Is he going to play ahead of those veterans?

Chicago famously refuses to participate in prospect development. There's a reason they're willing to cost-share to add veterans to their lineup. We have agreed to a situation where the Chad LaRoses are going to be pushing our 1st round draft picks into AHL depth roles.

Which would ring louder if the agreement didn't include the fact that the Hurricanes will control the coaching staff. Hard to believe that we'll be dealing with them prioritizing vets over development when they won't have any control over how the team is actually run.

 

[hblueridgegal]

Guess we should be used to the penny pinching and being nickel and dimed by now...remember when they wouldn't even call up a Checker when we needed one this past season...and we blew our momentum a few times?

I hate the cheap moniker mostly because I don't see the Triangle as a low rent spot. My envy of the Leafs, Habs, Rangers, etc war chests is great as you never hear about them losing treasured pieces of their organizations such as an ambassador announcer due to cash. The Athletic did a day in the life story about how the player experience is also unique with all the perks and first class treatment. It makes one wonder if it is ever a differentiator for some players.

 

[tarheelhockey]

We got to keep the coaches so maybe the canes will have more control that others have.

Possibly, but that would be a very notable departure from the entire history of the Wolves organization to this point. I doubt very much that they are going to change their entire organizational culture for us, considering they are already giving Dundon an explicit monetary payoff.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

And what happens when we send a guy like Necas to the Wolves? Is he going to play ahead of those veterans?

Chicago famously refuses to participate in prospect development. There's a reason they're willing to cost-share to add veterans to their lineup. We have agreed to a situation where the Chad LaRoses are going to be pushing our 1st round draft picks into AHL depth roles.

while we dont know every detail and you can continue to shoot holes in all the details we dont know, it seems like the agreement is different. Our coaches will be the coach. We have more control of ice time and development than the previous affiliates of Chicago. We have some serious prospects coming through Chicago over the next 3 years. Maybe they were cool with giving up control if we agreed at the amount of veterans and with the knowledge that how many future NHLers will be coming through there. Bean (maybe), Suzuki, Cotton, Bokk, Sellgren, etc, etc, etc. A lot of marketing opportunity for Chicago.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Which would ring louder if the agreement didn't include the fact that the Hurricanes will control the coaching staff. Hard to believe that we'll be dealing with them prioritizing vets over development when they won't have any control over how the team is actually run.

See my reply to @CanesFanBudMan above... it's pretty optimistic to think the Wolves are going to change their entire organizational culture when they've already given us a monetary payoff to make this arrangement happen.

 

[Svechhammer]

I think a lot of people are seriously overthinking this.

I really just don't care where the affiliate is. Charlotte or Chicago, I really don't give a flying f*** as long as the coaching staff is the same. And the new affiliate is willing to take cost demand off the Canes? That's not penny pinching, that's good business. Keeping the same agreements regardless of cost just because we want to maintain the status quo is the kind of mindset that made this franchise a model of mediocrity and misery under Karmanos. I'm glad we're not in the business of doing that anymore.