Player Discussion Adam Gaudette, Pt. II
- Thread starter Zombotron
- Start date
Speaking of unsustainable, Sutter's 5v5 production per 60 minutes this year is around 75% higher than his career average. I'd say that it would be quite rare for a player to suddenly develop offensive prowess at age 30.
So Gaudette's shooting percentage and Sutter's 5v5 point production are both unsustainable at the moment. I'm fine with Sutter as the 3rd line center when he's healthy. It is also worth giving Gaudette more ice time to try to help his development though. There's considerable potential upside for a 23 year old player with 80 something games of NHL experience. Sutter is what he is.
Nucker101
Foundational Poster
- Apr 2, 2013
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Man this team sorely needs a another playmaker. After that top line, that roster is full of shoot-first players and scrubs.
Bo's 24 and on pace for 68 points this season. His defensive play could use some work, but he's not exactly falling off a cliff like late-20s Lucic.
vanuck
Now with 100% less Benning!
- Dec 28, 2009
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Billy Kvcmu
Registered User
Never has a guy who's been chronically on IR and struggled with injuries when he was in the lineup, not to mention is lucky if he plays 30 games a season, be somehow deemed an 'essential player'. Posters do realize that for the past three seasons the Canucks have basically done without the services of Brandon Sutter.
Yet people will still parrot the party line from Green, that Sutter is somehow a key player and a better third line option than Gaudette. So if that myth won't die, the solution is to stick Sutter on the wing with Gaudette, and have him slide into the faceoff circle for key draws.
But even that experiment wouldn't last very long. Because Sutter would just get hurt again.
Yet people will still parrot the party line from Green, that Sutter is somehow a key player and a better third line option than Gaudette. So if that myth won't die, the solution is to stick Sutter on the wing with Gaudette, and have him slide into the faceoff circle for key draws.
But even that experiment wouldn't last very long. Because Sutter would just get hurt again.
What’s our PK % with and without Sutter? What is it with and without Gaudette? When you get back to me on that you will know why Green and everyone else values the contributions of Brandon Sutter over Adam Gaudette’s.
I am not sure why people are so focus on p/60. On the main board, when there are threads about player A vs Player B. We don't hear much people saying player A is better because he has better p/60. Looking at that stat without any context is useless. Sutter been in a shutdown role and getting a lot of Dzone faceoffs playing about 16/17 mins almost his whole career and average pace is around 15 G 30 P a season. This year he is getting easier mins and less Dzone faceoffs and getting about 14/15 mins a games and still average about the same pace his whole career.
16/17 mins shutdown role and lot of Dzone faceoffs
vs
14/15 easier mins and less Dzone faceoffs?
I am not quite sure how to measure I think the second option would easier to put up points. Therefore I think Sutter points is way more sustainable and Gaudette shooting percentage.
Sutter role is different so using past results wouldn't make much sense
You can block me all you want. You are too scare to hear the truth.
The truth is Sutter does have more 5 on 5 points than Gaudette
The truth is Sutter better defensively
The truth is Sutter better on faceoffs
The truth Sutter can be a part of the PK
The truth is Sutter can be out taking Dzone faceoffs
The truth is with Sutter as third line center. Green use Horvat more in an offensive role.
That being said If Green can find a spot like how col used Gagner, a bottom 6 will easy mins and not of lot of Dzone faceoff and 2nd pp unit specialists. Then by all means I have no problem having Gaudette in the lineup
Unless Sutter has mastered the EA Sports NHL game-boy, or perfected the art of scoring goals from the pressbox, then he isn't 'better' than anybody.
I believe the Canucks actually have more regulation wins than losses over the past 3 seasons (including this one) with Sutter in the lineup.
Last 3 seasons with Sutter in the lineup
10 6 3 so far
12 11 3
25 28 8
47 45 14 With Sutter in the lineup last 3 seasons. First season was 8 6 6, second season he did play 81 games but JB said he was playing with broken wrist since early Feb and Canucks only won 7 games from Feb that year.
Last edited:
canucksfan100
Registered User
- Apr 3, 2007
- 3,102
- 179
Gaudette is on a 50 point pace playing 3rd line minuets. If you remove Pearson's empty net contributions, they have nearly the same points with Gaudette playing 10 less games. Hes impressed me this year, he might be a legit 2nd line player or a high end scoring 3C if he can work on his faceoffs. He also has a better Scoring Chance % and High Danger Scoring Chance % than Pearson, while playing with lesser players
Green made a horrible coaching decision to put the Gaudette line with 2 plus mins left in the game. I am not putting all the blame on Gaudette but that line was hemmed in the Dzone for over a minute and didn't even touch the puck. Gaudette is just not ready to play tough mins. Look at the Pitsburg game, pits scored two goals in the third period, both goals were scored due to Gaudette losing a faceoff and got hemmed in the Dzone.
You can blame Gaudette all you want....but the guy who gets his ice-time because he's supposedly more defensively responsible, was on the ice for three Buffalo goals in the second period and basically got stapled to the bench down the stretch. I'm referring of course to Jay Beagle....even though it probably killed him, even Green had to admit the obvious and sit him down.
So once Horvat went to concussion protocol and Canucks didn't have much choice to go with Gaudette. But you're blaming the wrong guy for the fact the Canucks couldn't hold the lead.
Do you feel better if I blame Beagle as well? Ok I blame Beagle as well, it waz more Beagle fault than Gaudette fault, Happy? Don't forget most of my arguments is about Sutter being a better third line center than Gaudette, I don't care much about Beagle.
But the fact is green gave Gaudette a shot to hold on to lead and Gaudette line got hemmed in the own zone. No matter how you try slice and dice this, Gaudette wasn't good in the final 2 mins protecting the lead. He is not ready to be the third line center. Green should be like what Col did with Gagner. Find him some easy shelter offensive mins so he doesn't have to be liability 5 on 5.
To be frank, both Sutter and Gaudette are not perfect for the third line center but Sutter is the better option. It's not even debateable, the perfect third line center would of been Jared Macann but to bad JB traded him. That's another conversation for another thread
If you want to say Gaudette is a better option because Sutter is never healthy and we should get rid of Sutter. Fair enough but the fact is Sutter is still here and if he is healthy Sutter is a better third line center.
I wouldn't say Sutter is categorically a better third line center. I think it depends on what you want. Gaudette is the better offensive C. Sutter is better defensively. The way Green wants to play though I think he prefers having Sutter in the lineup alongside Beagle.
Regardless, Sutter is turning 31 in Feb. Gaudette turned 23 this past October. Clearly Gaudette is the player you want to keep going forward. At this point, the ideal scenario is for Gaudette to take hold of the 3rd line C spot and the Canucks trade Sutter for a good return.
sting101
Registered User
- Feb 8, 2012
- 15,886
- 14,745
Currently i dont see how moving Gaudette to the wing makes us a better more dangerous team.
Sutter and Beagle both are struggling with staying healthy and as we seen in the past both will struggle when they come back from injury.
Both veterans are important defensive situational players but there is absolutely no need to neuter an additional line that can provide scoring depth by placing them in the 3C and 4C roles.
Both Beagle and Sutter can play the wings and if both are healthy then 1 of them should 100% be on the wing...end of story.
If as the year progresses Gaudette starts to bleed 5v5 then you re evaluate the situation but simply put having AG centering a line producing offense and being able to play the left half wall on the PP is a big positive development and makes us a very deep forward group
As far as who comes out next. It 100% should be Schaller. He's cratering badly 5v5 and his PKing has been awful as well. Gap control has been terrible and skting is looking like last year when he was more of an AHL player than a NHL player. It's time for Leivo and Virtanen to start taking some bigger defensive responsibilities and kill some penalties in limited usage. There is no need for a guy to stay in the lineup that is playing like crap just to roll out and be poor at killing penalties.
To close out my thoughts on Gaudette. 3rd and 4th lines should be one that can push and drive offense with Gaudette and a line that can do some match up minutes and heavy lifting. Adjust in game as needed but dont start games by reducing our ability to put teams behind
Sutter and Beagle both are struggling with staying healthy and as we seen in the past both will struggle when they come back from injury.
Both veterans are important defensive situational players but there is absolutely no need to neuter an additional line that can provide scoring depth by placing them in the 3C and 4C roles.
Both Beagle and Sutter can play the wings and if both are healthy then 1 of them should 100% be on the wing...end of story.
If as the year progresses Gaudette starts to bleed 5v5 then you re evaluate the situation but simply put having AG centering a line producing offense and being able to play the left half wall on the PP is a big positive development and makes us a very deep forward group
As far as who comes out next. It 100% should be Schaller. He's cratering badly 5v5 and his PKing has been awful as well. Gap control has been terrible and skting is looking like last year when he was more of an AHL player than a NHL player. It's time for Leivo and Virtanen to start taking some bigger defensive responsibilities and kill some penalties in limited usage. There is no need for a guy to stay in the lineup that is playing like crap just to roll out and be poor at killing penalties.
To close out my thoughts on Gaudette. 3rd and 4th lines should be one that can push and drive offense with Gaudette and a line that can do some match up minutes and heavy lifting. Adjust in game as needed but dont start games by reducing our ability to put teams behind
Gaudette is a better offensive center base on what? The fact is Sutter has more 5 on 5 points than Gaudette this sesson. 8 to 6, Gaudette has not proven to be able to produce much 5 on 5 and that is with around 60% offensive zone starts. No argument on the pp,
His only 2 even strength goals this season came in a game that was played like the 80s with no defence and goaltending vs Pits
Play Gaudette on the wing is the best option
Based on the fact that Gaudette has more goals and points than Sutter.
Virtanen has more even strength goals than Petey and Boeser is Virtanen a better goal scorer than those two? I don't think so.
Look, I was as much of a Sutter supporter as anyone here. When healthy he can score goals regardless of who he plays with, but anyone can see that Gaudette plays a more skilled game and is the better playmaker. Had Sutter averaged his previously usual 80 games the past 4 seasons here he would be remembered differently. But he's now 30 and turning 31 in Feb. If Gaudette can shoulder that 3rd line C spot going forward you give it to him.
Diamonddog01
Diamond in the rough
Yup. I want to see a
Roussel - Horvat - Gaudette
line. Roussel and Horvat were good 5 on 5 last year and the bottom 9 has struggled in this regard.
Horse McHindu
They call me Horse.....
I completely agree with you about Sutter and Gaudette, but my only concern is that Gaudette can’t “bring it” defensively like Sutter does. As a result, it does seem like Horvat has been taking on the tougher defensive match-ups (which has lead to Horvat’s offensive production declining). The Canucks seem to be surrendering a lot more goals with Sutter out of the line-up.
Moving Gaudette to the wing might be an option, but Gaudette clearly feels more comfortable at center.
I do agree that demoting Gaudette in any shape or form would be a massive injustice.
I do have one “crackpot” idea that I’d like to mention:
Miller-Horvat-Boeser
Roussel-Gaudette-Pettersson
Pearson-Sutter-Virtanen
Roussel provides some muscle to the kid line. Wondering if something like that would be worth experimenting with?
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