Speculation: Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap Part XLV: Caps Trade Deadline 2015 Edition

[g00n]

And my point is that we also do not know that something could have been done. That's why I fail to see why your harping on one side, yet not the other. There is no real evidence either way. So some posters want to rant about what wasn't done. Others want to defend because maybe nothing could be done. Neither is wrong. But neither is right, either. We just don't know.

I'm not harping on one side and not the other. I have repeatedly said neither side knows, and it could very well have been the right move. Please read what I actually wrote before accusing me of hypocrisy.

 

[Bananas]

Lets examine a few things:

1) What Rids is saying is absolutely correct. There simply weren't any top guys available based on what actually transpired. Its reasonable to conclude that there simply weren't any available for a SANE price.

2) Speaking of price....decent 2nd/3rd liners were going for multiple draft picks in a deep draft. More reason to believe the the standard overpayment increased greatly to the point of laughability.

3) To your bolded part...alot of times people say (this is just a random example to illustrate my point) "Hey how come we can land on the moon but can't figure out a cure for cancer???" ..well..perhaps its BECAUSE we landed on the moon in the first place!

There are finite resources available (cap space, roster space, assets) and because we used those to correct LONG standing problems it stands to reason that it would be difficult to correct every imperfection even assuming top end talent WAS available.

To the people who say "We should have been ALL IN ON PAVELSKI!" well...they never stop to consider that San Jose fans could have been saying "We should have been ALL IN ON BACKSTROM!"

Would you trade Backstrom? Sure..anyone can be traded...but it would have to be some absurd overpayment thats beyond reasoning. Guys like ROR would command guys like Carlson and Alzner that we simply can't part with.

The easiest way to debunk the Ridley/Rouse argument is to point out that if we couldn't plug the holes necessary for a cup run, we should have sold off pieces during this "laughable" returns seller's market. While I can't see anything that we could have traded for, I certainly see players still on our roster who could have returned plenty. If no "sane" upgrades were there to be made, then we should have gotten "insane" returns on green, mojo, ward etc. The real mistake is to continue with the half measures policy of McPhee. If we couldn't make the roster whole, then we needed to load up assets and cap space for next year and beyond. It was a simple either/or scenario and the caps chose the "neither" option, which was a mistake.

We'll definitely know more once we see what happens with this year's run and what happens in the offseason, with Green in particular.

I'm ready to move and and just enjoy the games but mark me down as someone who thinks the Caps could have done better...

...at the same time I think we are in pretty good shape overall so don't chuck me in the "doom and gloom" category either.

Go Caps...

 

[BobRouse]

The easiest way to debunk the Ridley/Rouse argument is to point out that if we couldn't plug the holes necessary for a cup run, we should have sold off pieces during this "laughable" returns seller's market. While I can't see anything that we could have traded for, I certainly see players still on our roster who could have returned plenty. If no "sane" upgrades were there to be made, then we should have gotten "insane" returns on green, mojo, ward etc. The real mistake is to continue with the half measures policy of McPhee. If we couldn't make the roster whole, then we needed to load up assets and cap space for next year and beyond. It was a simple either/or scenario and the caps chose the "neither" option, which was a mistake.

We'll definitely know more once we see what happens with this year's run and what happens in the offseason, with Green in particular.

I'm ready to move and and just enjoy the games but mark me down as someone who thinks the Caps could have done better...

...at the same time I think we are in pretty good shape overall so don't chuck me in the "doom and gloom" category either.

Go Caps...

We have just a good a chance as any team in the East to come out on top. The teams from 1-7 are very evenly matched.

 

[bur and 666 others]

I think people here should leave the past in the past (i.e. the trade deadline) and focus on the future. We have a good team and few question marks on F which after the playoffs we should be able to evaluate if they are need to go or stay. I was one who was all about IN this season, but since it didn't happen, let's see how these guys perform. I'm pretty sure they will address our holes either this offseason or pretty soon since, in my opinion, we don't have many of them now, so it should be easy to fix.

I think they tried to get a difference maker this trade deadline (Kane rumors), but Kane got hurt and there were no options honestly. My concern was that this regime is the same as the previous one, but we have a good team. We set on D and G and pretty much on F, there aren't many holes to address, so even with an average management we should be able to fix them IMHO

 

[Raikkonen]

They are planning for Mojo to be top-6 impact player in playoffs. That's clear, right? There is no backup plan for Mojo not producing, I believe. He will be either 1RW, or 2LW/2C.

Another potential top-9 impact player is Kuznetsov for whom backup plan is Beagle.

Within all other players where are not much problems actually. They are all bottom-9 wingers Physical enough to play their role.

Lets pretend we like our team, don't be negative ppl!

 

[Ridley Simon]

I'm not harping on one side and not the other. I have repeatedly said neither side knows, and it could very well have been the right move. Please read what I actually wrote before accusing me of hypocrisy.

I read exactly what you wrote? You stated that GM and the Caps chose to do nothing. And you didnt like that choice. Yet people that sided with the Caps for not throwing away the farm to make a mythical acquisition are wrong for siding with management and wrong to do so by stating that "we dont know that anything was to be done".

If you cant see what I am saying, then there is no point to this. Your opinion is the Caps should have done more, no matter what. Its pretty clear in that long post about "to chose" on page 34. And anyone that doesnt feel that way is getting derided for their manner in defending managements position not to "do more".

Ok, I guess you arent understanding me. Thats fine

 

[BobRouse]

They are planning for Mojo to be top-6 impact player in playoffs. That's clear, right? There is no backup plan for Mojo not producing, I believe. He will be either 1RW, or 2LW/2C.

Another potential top-9 impact player is Kuznetsov for whom backup plan is Beagle.

Within all other players where are not much problems actually. They are all bottom-9 wingers Physical enough to play their role.

Lets pretend we like our team, don't be negative ppl!

You can't look at things in a vacuum.

All the teams in the East (and league) have their warts.

Our goaltending ranks close to the top end of Price/Lundqvuist.

Our D is a shade behind the Rags but I'd take them over anyone else.

We have the 2 leading scorers in the league.

We have by far the biggest most physical team in the East.

Yeah maybe we have a 2C issue but other teams have a variety of their own issues.

 

[Ridley Simon]

The easiest way to debunk the Ridley/Rouse argument is to point out that if we couldn't plug the holes necessary for a cup run, we should have sold off pieces during this "laughable" returns seller's market. While I can't see anything that we could have traded for, I certainly see players still on our roster who could have returned plenty. If no "sane" upgrades were there to be made, then we should have gotten "insane" returns on green, mojo, ward etc. The real mistake is to continue with the half measures policy of McPhee. If we couldn't make the roster whole, then we needed to load up assets and cap space for next year and beyond. It was a simple either/or scenario and the caps chose the "neither" option, which was a mistake.

We'll definitely know more once we see what happens with this year's run and what happens in the offseason, with Green in particular.

I'm ready to move and and just enjoy the games but mark me down as someone who thinks the Caps could have done better...

...at the same time I think we are in pretty good shape overall so don't chuck me in the "doom and gloom" category either.

Go Caps...

Wait....you are saying that due to market prices, we should have sold off? So instead of going for it all, and overpaying...flip it around and the right course of action would have been to switch gears and sell off?

Seriously? Not sure how the owners would have felt about that, and the direct repercusions it may have had on the gate revenue of the playoffs, as that probably would have assured a forst round departure. Sell of Green, Ward, etc? Please. The GM doesnt own the team, kiddo.

I would have like a MaJo upgrade, and I'm sorry that it didnt happen. I look to see who did get dealt that we could have had...and the only guy is Kane, and that maybe wouldn't have been a good choice. I wish MaJo had been upgraded, but I dont have enough proof of where that could have happened...to complain too much.

I know you arent a doom and gloom. But I think many on here, including posters like you, simply want to complain because the Caps didnt do anything splashy to address a top 6 role. They addressed it, but not to your liking. I get it.

 

[Raikkonen]

Yeah maybe we have a 2C issue but other teams have a variety of their own issues.

Absolutely. Also I think there is a mental barrier. If Caps are getting to the ECF I think they will destroy any team in it just because of morale rise.

One round between Ovi and the Cup? Get out of his way.

 

[BobRouse]

Absolutely. Also I think there is a mental barrier. If Caps are getting to the ECF I think they will destroy any team in it just because of morale rise.

One round between Ovi and the Cup? Get out of his way.

This is the biggest issue with the franchise. A dark cloud has followed them around ever since they blew that 2-0 series lead to the Islanders back in 84 I believe.

With a few exceptions we have had a 2-0 or 3-1 series lead in just about every playoff series.

Regardless of owner, GM, coach, players, arena, new generation of fans, tough defensive team, high flying offensive team...doesn't matter.

There is no trade that can make that vanish. It has to come from the inside and someone has to do something or have a "moment" to build off of.

I thought it was Hunter in OT vs the Flyers or Kolzig in 98 but wasn't to be.

There is only one player we have that can perform "the goal" from Messier in the 84 finals vs the Isles.

 

[BobRouse]

I'm going to sound like a broken record b/c I bring this up pretty much every year we get to this stage.

To put context in the above video...

The Oilers were a young up and coming team with oodles of talent but just couldn't get over the hump (albiet they went further than we have with the current group).

They were outmatched severly by the veteran Islanders in 83.

In 84 they faced the Isles again who were looking for their millionth SCF win in a row.

Oilers got DOMINATED in game 1. But somehow won due to a amazing performance from Fuhr. 1-0

In game to they got DOMINATED again. This time they lost 7-1 and lost Fuhr to an injury.

In game 3 they found themselves down 2-1 in the middle frame. At this point they were pretty much dominated in the series and were outscored 9-3. They were facing a confident Islander team who had beaten them in a sweep the previous year as well.

Thats when Messier scored that goal and completely changed the entire mindset of the Oilers. One goal. One moment. It had a profound impact on the entire franchise and then they went on to cruise through that series and then start the dynasty.

This story cannot be recounted enough. As Caps fans it should give us hope that a single moment like that can change everything.

 

[artilector]

I see two big questions for the Caps in the postseason:
1. Will they be able to handle the speed of the faster (smaller) teams.
2. Will the bottom 9 be able to provide enough offense if/when the top line gets contained.

One does get the feeling, though, that every series with the Caps is going to be close.

edit: spelling, lol

 

[RandyHolt]

3. Will the RD's be able to provide enough offense when the bottom nine can't provide secondary scoring, after all efforts are made to shutdown Ovi

As we are built a lot of offense needs to come from the blueline. More than throwing pucks into Ovi's wheelhouse.

 

[Ridley Simon]

We have just a good a chance as any team in the East to come out on top. The teams from 1-7 are very evenly matched.

Rangers are better at everythign the Caps do, save Ovechkin and Backstrom. That said, Nash and St.Louis are not far off.

Rangers will end up #1 seed, and the team to beat. People need to understand that.

I *hope* that we end up playing Montreal in the first round, as I am hard pressed to see us getting into top 3 in the Metro. We are too far behind, and those teams are not built to crumble.

So lets play the Habs, and give them back some medicine from 2010

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I'm going to sound like a broken record b/c I bring this up pretty much every year we get to this stage.

To put context in the above video...

The Oilers were a young up and coming team with oodles of talent but just couldn't get over the hump (albiet they went further than we have with the current group).

They were outmatched severly by the veteran Islanders in 83.

In 84 they faced the Isles again who were looking for their millionth SCF win in a row.

Oilers got DOMINATED in game 1. But somehow won due to a amazing performance from Fuhr. 1-0

In game to they got DOMINATED again. This time they lost 7-1 and lost Fuhr to an injury.

In game 3 they found themselves down 2-1 in the middle frame. At this point they were pretty much dominated in the series and were outscored 9-3. They were facing a confident Islander team who had beaten them in a sweep the previous year as well.

Thats when Messier scored that goal and completely changed the entire mindset of the Oilers. One goal. One moment. It had a profound impact on the entire franchise and then they went on to cruise through that series and then start the dynasty.

This story cannot be recounted enough. As Caps fans it should give us hope that a single moment like that can change everything.

So to summarize, you're saying embrace our annual roll of the dice we call Capital's playoffs....

 

[BobRouse]

So to summarize, you're saying embrace our annual roll of the dice we call Capital's playoffs....

What I'm saying is that to get over the hump the driving force, the spark, must come from a guy like Ovechkin or Holtby.

Rangers are better at everythign the Caps do, save Ovechkin and Backstrom. That said, Nash and St.Louis are not far off.

Rangers will end up #1 seed, and the team to beat. People need to understand that.

I *hope* that we end up playing Montreal in the first round, as I am hard pressed to see us getting into top 3 in the Metro. We are too far behind, and those teams are not built to crumble.

So lets play the Habs, and give them back some medicine from 2010

I think we are a bigger and more physical team than the Rangers. They are a very good hockey team no doubt.

But on paper they were better than us the last 2 times we faced them in the playoffs and both series went 7 games and for the most part we had the territorial (slight) edge over the course of those series.

There is no 1 team I would like to play over any other. They will all be tough in their own ways.

I do think our size and physicality is a tremendous advantage the longer a series drags out. The heavy hard hitting teams are very much at an advantage in such a situation.

 

[tycoonheart]

So to summarize, you're saying embrace our annual roll of the dice we call Capital's playoffs....

Really, do we fans have any other option?

 

[HTFN]

So to summarize, you're saying embrace our annual roll of the dice we call Capital's playoffs....

Well, sometimes it's kind of fun.

 

[Ridley Simon]

I see two big question for the Caps in the offseason:
1. Will they be able to handle the speed of the faster (smaller) teams.
2. Will the bottom 9 be able to provide enough offense if/when the top line gets contained.

One does get the feeling, though, that every series with the Caps is going to be close.

Agreed. They shouldnt get blown out....nor should they blow anyone out. Doesnt mean it wont be a 5 game series somewhere (either way), but it would be lots of 1 goal games (prob OT)

 

[Raikkonen]

Predicting 1 GWG for Chimmer, 1 for Ovi, 1 for Green and 1 game won by Holtby in shootout somehow. Why not?

 

[EroCaps]

I see two big question for the Caps in the offseason:
1. Will they be able to handle the speed of the faster (smaller) teams.
2. Will the bottom 9 be able to provide enough offense if/when the top line gets contained.

One does get the feeling, though, that every series with the Caps is going to be close.

1.) I think so. The new system and D + playoffs will shrink the ice quite a bit.

2.) Doubtful. The 2nd line is a huge problem.

I'd be willing to bet if they face off against a NY team, Wilson, Latta and Co. are going to go monkey-poo to try and even the playing field.



It'll be entertaining, at least.

 

[um]

the good thing about this year is if our top guys do in fact get shut out at least our defence and Holtby have a chance to the same thing to the other team, by that i mean we can win games 2-1 this year. And besides shutting down OV and Nicky is no easy task, can't think of a better duo in the NHL.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

the good thing about this year is if our top guys do in fact get shut out at least our defence and Holtby have a chance to the same thing to the other team, by that i mean we can win games 2-1 this year. And besides shutting down OV and Nicky is no easy task, can't think of a better duo in the NHL.

I doubt we match the 30 goals allowed in 14 games in 2012. That was ridiculous.

 

[artilector]

3. Will the RD's be able to provide enough offense when the bottom nine can't provide secondary scoring, after all efforts are made to shutdown Ovi

As we are built a lot of offense needs to come from the blueline. More than throwing pucks into Ovi's wheelhouse.

Would be good..

Though, to me, blueline offense is really "team offense", for lack of better word. It mostly depends, I think, on how well the forwards screen, hunt for rebounds, and keep feeding the defensemen off the cycle. I think often the actual contribution of the defenders, even when they get their typical goals/assists is relatively small (though, of course ,important) in comparison -- they just need to do a good job getting pucks on net. Which, curiously, Caps' defensemen often seem to struggle with, well at least in terms of visual comparison to some other teams.

So as far Green and Carlson.. besides the PP (which is very much a collective/Ovi-feeding enterprise), I think their offense will be determined a lot (or mostly) by how the forwards position themselves and feed them the puck. Though being able to make a good lateral move on the blueline and get the puck through can make a big difference in close games..

 

[RandyHolt]

....need to do a good job getting pucks on net. Which, curiously, Caps' defensemen often seem to struggle with...

Great point and exactly what i was getting at. The cycle game's common play is the puck back to the point. Swing it across, or either way, get the puck towards the goal.

It is an underated aspect of offense, league wide. Oleksy in his initial callup was one that quickly made a Mike Green look bad in that Mike and others would not try to change the angle. Find a lane, buy time for a screen etc. Racking up the assists. It took Alzner 4 years to try but he learned and I think his assist totals reflect it.

Short of joining the rush or cheating, simple point play is where we should be generating good chances with our 3 high skill RD.