Speculation: Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap/Lines etc. Part LXVI (Win Harder, Boys)

[hockeykicker]

Saw this on Japers Rink:



ROFLMAO

wow. speechless

 

[PB12]

So is there anyone resembling a true #1 D that might be available a la Pronger?

In terms of Hitting and Power there is Buff. But in terms of a true #1 no. Trade market appears to be thin this year. If i'm the Caps i'm making phone calls to Western Conf teams only. I think no one in the East will be willing to trade with us except maybe Buffalo and Toronto, but i dont think there is anything too special there

 

[Devil Dancer]

Orpik was terribad to start the season, got hurt, had a setback in his recovery, and still isn't skating with the team. Anyone who's penciling him to their shutdown pairing at this point is being overly optimistic.

Exactly, that's why i advocate for bringing in a solid top 4 D if available.

Yes, Orpik was good in the playoffs last year, but he can't get on the ice this year, and he was bad in the few games he played.

Ideally they'll get 2015 Orpik back any day now and this will all be moot, but I don't have high hopes of that given how long he has been out. And what concerns me is that he could be out until close to or after the TDL. Then the team is then at the mercy of whatever his injury is. Throw in an injury to Carlson and D depth sounds better and better.

 

[tmljeh19*]

Not being a smart aleck but I think you missed the point. Richards is irrelevant, not losing anyone "in the room" is.

If the Caps trade Marjo or Beagle will it affect the room? I have no idea, they are professionals, but I just don't know. That is were Trotz earns is money, by gauging a situation like that.

They aren't going to trade someone and open another hole. With exception to 21. Draft picks and prospects is what we are dealing from. If this team can't win a cup for the reason of losing Brooks Laich then they will never win one.

 

[marcel snapshot]

Kessel - we dodged a bullet there. Remember he was still available when McPhee drafted Nicky. And then Boston took Kessel next.

Interesting that in a draft year that included Toews, Kessel, Giroux, and Jordan Staal (who the Pens took before Nicky), Backstrom has more career points than anyone in his class.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2006e.html

One more unheralded thing about the guy.

 

[g00n]

Why are we talking about hits totals like it's 1993?

Forget hits. Orpik is a physical defenseman who stands players up at the blueline and clears the crease. His job is not to generate offense so his possession stats are not going to be good. The players and coaches have talked about how much of a hard worker and leader he is. He has obviously been a big part of the rejuvenation of this team following the Oates debacle and GMGM's unwillingness to stock the blueline with top tier DEFENSIVE players.

It's beyond comprehension that any Caps fan is questioning this timeline, or the value of that kind of player, when this prototypical top pair stay at home d-man has been so obviously missing from the roster since the Cup finals team.

Last year the consensus was he was WORTH EVERY PENNY. If Orpik is healthy he's the clear #1D and a team leader to boot.

 

[hb12xchamps]

You are making a weird argument because on one hand, you are saying puck possession is important (I agree wholeheartedly with this), but on the other hand Orpik is the worst possession D on the team by far so you are kind of making my point for me.

The difference between Orpik and Wilson is that Wilson's hits are on the forecheck and they cause turnovers in dangerous areas of the ice, whereas Orpik's hits are almost always in his own zone and very rarely cause a turnovers.

Well no **** a forward is going to have more hits on the forecheck. I don't expect a defenseman to jump into the offensive zone and hit someone, that's not their role.

Here is a list of leading hitters amongst defensemen:

Mark Borowiecki
Radko Gudas
Roman Polak
Alexei Emelin
Nick Holden
Dustin Byfuglien
Klas Dahlbeck
Mark Stuart
Erik Gudbranson
Brayden McNabb
Michael Del Zotto

Aside from Byfuglien that is a list of really bad defensemen. It's almost as if hits are not important if you are on D!

Why'd you stop at Del Zotto? Because Shea Webber, Travis Hamonic, Dion Phaneuf, and Jake Muzzin were the next 4 D on that list and I wouldn't call them really bad defensemen. Hitting is a big part of the game and is an area Orpik excels at.

And how are you so sure Orpik will have time to get ready? The playoffs are less than 3 months away and he hasn't even skated yet.

I guess the same could be said about Carlson right? It doesn't take long to get game ready. All indications from management say that Orpik will be back before the end of the regular season.

I'm not advocating that Ness, Carrick, or Stanton (who was brutal last night) should take the place of Orpik, only Chorney. He has played 36 games which is enough for me to say he's earned a spot in the lineup.

I think Orpik would be an excellent backup plan, but he should be exactly that: a backup plan.

Orpik is not going to be a backup plan unless he completely ***** the bed when he comes back. You are crazy if you think Taylor Chorney is a lock to get into the lineup

 

[hb12xchamps]

So is there anyone resembling a true #1 D that might be available a la Pronger?

I doubt it. Buff is the only one I can think of that's available right now and that subject has been beaten to death. The only other player I can think of is Shattenkirk but do you consider him a #1D?

 

[tmljeh19*]

my question is, if it doesn't make sense to them and they don't do it, are you ok with that?

I will be HIGHLY disappointed if they don't make a decent move this deadline. You have no guarantee this group will be playing as well next year. Screw the 2 year window. It's a 1 year window. Time to make a move.

 

[Hivemind]

Orpik is still a better player than Chorney, come on guys.

If he plays like he did last season. Absolutely. The problem is that Orpik did not play like he did last season when he was on the ice this year. He played like he did in his last couple seasons in Pittsburgh. That version of Orpik is not better than Chorney. That version of Orpik is a liability.

 

[PB12]

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/trade_deadline/top25/index.html

List of rumored players that could be on the move

 

[Koized]

Screw Chicago. Their ongoing ability to compete is built on Keith and Hossa's cap circumventing deals. I hope Kane and Toews bury them for years to come.

The extra depth they were able to keep because of these deals was unfair. I don't understand how the NHL allowed a few teams to benefit from these cheater contracts.

 

[capitalsrock]

When time and space decrease you need a defenseman who can make the clever pass or skate the puck to the neutral zone in order to mount an attack. Orpik looks like he is handling a grenade any time he has the puck on his stick. Why is Duncan Keith so good in the playoffs? Certainly isn't his size or grit. It's because he can neutralize a forecheck with good passing and zone exits.

Now I won't say that Orpik was the worst defenseman last year in the playoffs (that honor belongs to Tim Gleason), but I find it hard to believe that Orpik is better than Schmidt, Orlov, or hell even Chorney right now. Orpik should be the 7D going into the playoffs if everyone is healthy and in my opinion it's not even close. Puck possession is king in the playoffs, and Orpik is a black hole of possession.

That's just not true. Orpik is very reliable with his first pass and on the breakout. 90% of the time Chorney has the puck he just flings it off the glass. Schmidt and Orlov, especially Orlov, turn the puck over way more than Orpik and if they do that in the playoffs it could lose us a game. Orpik won't be trying to dangle in front of our net or making blind passes up the middle. He finds the safe pass because he has experience and doesn't panic.

Unlike the other 3, Orpik won't get pushed off the puck in the corners, and he won't get out muscled in front of the net for net positioning. Defense isn't just about who's the flashiest skater.

 

[Hivemind]

The 2016 UFA defenseman market is pretty paltry. Not much to see there in terms of rental potential. Byfuglien is the biggest name and has been discussed to death. Other than that, there's Brian Campbell, but Florida is comfortably in playoff position and Campbell's strengths as a PP LD doesn't really mesh with our needs. Dan Hamhuis is a name that intrigues me, even if he's not quite the player he was a couple years ago. Obviously that's going to depend on how he looks after he gets back from his injury*.

My wildcard pick for a potential #1 defenseman would be Victor Hedman. Highly highly doubtful he's traded, especially with an entire season before he hits UFA. But the Stamkos and Drouin situations create a lot of potential for shake-up in Tampa. Depending on what assets are moving in and out, and how much money Tampa allocates, there's an outside chance (~5%) that the cards fall right for Tampa to deal Hedman. The price would obviously be really steep.

I'd also think that Columbus would be willing to listen to offers on Jack Johnson, but I'm not in love with him as an NHL player (his play with a USA jersey on is a different matter).


*Side point: I refuse to believe the NHL takes player safety seriously until they make full cages (or equivalent) mandatory.

 

[hockeyfan88]

The extra depth they were able to keep because of these deals was unfair. I don't understand how the NHL allowed a few teams to benefit from these cheater contracts.

Yet NJD got punished hard after that and the Hawks are still winning cups.

The purpose of these contracts was to generate a lower salary cap “hit†for their respective teams, since the average annual salary is calculated against the salary cap, not the actual salary itself.
Duncan Keith’s contract is a good example. In the first seven years of his 13-year contract with the Chicago Blackhawks, he earns $8 million per season in the first three years, $7.65 million in year four, $7.6 million in year five, $7.5 million in year six, and $6 million in year seven. His average cap hit, however, is just over $5.538 million.
That’s because in the final six years of his contract, his real annual salary drops steadily, from $5 million in year eight, to a mere $1.5 million in year 13.
Critics correctly pointed out this constituted circumvention of the salary cap, but in only one instance – the Devils initial re-signing in 2012 of Kovalchuk – was a contract rejected by the league for circumvention.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

The 2016 UFA defenseman market is pretty paltry. Not much to see there in terms of rental potential. Byfuglien is the biggest name and has been discussed to death. Other than that, there's Brian Campbell, but Florida is comfortably in playoff position and Campbell's strengths as a PP LD doesn't really mesh with our needs. Dan Hamhuis is a name that intrigues me, even if he's not quite the player he was a couple years ago. Obviously that's going to depend on how he looks after he gets back from his injury*.

My wildcard pick for a potential #1 defenseman would be Victor Hedman. Highly highly doubtful he's traded, especially with an entire season before he hits UFA. But the Stamkos and Drouin situations create a lot of potential for shake-up in Tampa. Depending on what assets are moving in and out, and how much money Tampa allocates, there's an outside chance (~5%) that the cards fall right for Tampa to deal Hedman. The price would obviously be really steep.

I'd also think that Columbus would be willing to listen to offers on Jack Johnson, but I'm not in love with him as an NHL player (his play with a USA jersey on is a different matter).


*Side point: I refuse to believe the NHL takes player safety seriously until they make full cages (or equivalent) mandatory.

Victor Hedman... no chance. Would love him in DC but I think they let Stamkos walk before Hedman.

I wear a cage in my men's league. Every time I think of going visor I got nailed with a puck or a high stick or an elbow and I remember that inviting trauma to my face and head is dumb.

 

[Hivemind]

The difference between the Keith deal and the Kovalchuk deal is that there's a reasonable chance that Keith could actually play until the end of his contract (2023, age 40). Kovalchuk's deal didn't expire until he was almost 44. If Kovy remained active until the end of that 17-year contract, he would have been one of the 10 oldest skaters in NHL history.

Basically, Kovy's deal did everything to a bigger extreme than the other front-loaded contracts. Good article on it here:
http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2010/7/21/1579736/why-ilya-kovalchuks-contract-was

 

[hockeyfan88]

The difference between the Keith deal and the Kovalchuk deal is that there's a reasonable chance that Keith could actually play until the end of his contract (2023, age 40). Kovalchuk's deal didn't expire until he was almost 44. If Kovy remained active until the end of that 17-year contract, he would have been one of the 10 oldest skaters in NHL history.

Basically, Kovy's deal did everything to a bigger extreme than the other front-loaded contracts. Good article on it here:
http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2010/7/21/1579736/why-ilya-kovalchuks-contract-was

Yep, NJD actually went too far.

But I think the Keith and Hossa deals are also malicious tbh.

Thanks for the link.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

The difference between the Keith deal and the Kovalchuk deal is that there's a reasonable chance that Keith could actually play until the end of his contract (2023, age 40). Kovalchuk's deal didn't expire until he was almost 44. If Kovy remained active until the end of that 17-year contract, he would have been one of the 10 oldest skaters in NHL history.

Basically, Kovy's deal did everything to a bigger extreme than the other front-loaded contracts. Good article on it here:
http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2010/7/21/1579736/why-ilya-kovalchuks-contract-was

I still hope the Sharks offer sheet the heck out of Panarin. He's a good start to replacing Thornton/Marleau.

 

[txpd]

It's beyond comprehension that any Caps fan is questioning this timeline, or the value of that kind of player, when this prototypical top pair stay at home d-man has been so obviously missing from the roster since the Cup finals team.

Last year the consensus was he was WORTH EVERY PENNY. If Orpik is healthy he's the clear #1D and a team leader to boot.

Edit: For effect. Listen to the analyst talk about Orpik after he destroys Boyle. This is game 7.
"You have to protect yourself when he is out there. When 44 is on the ice you have to know where he is"

 

[txpd]

Krieder has the puck. Then he doesn't. NHL players are afraid of Brooks Orpik

 

[capitalsrock]

i want the puck in the offensive zone and it sure as hell won't be there often if orpik is on the ice. If any of those players have extended possession of the puck they will score no matter who is defending them. Orlov, schmidt, and he'll even chorney have been driving play really well and this is the best form of defense. It isn't a difficult concept to grasp. there's a reason why good teams like chicago and la prefer puck moving defenseman over the stay at home dinosaurs. Players like orpik are a relic from the past.

tell me: Who should orpik replace and why?

View attachment 87239

 

[Carlzner]

Chicago has Seabrook and Hjalmarsson.

LA had Greene, Mitchell, and Scuderi all playing prominent roles.

 

[Ridley Simon]

So is there anyone resembling a true #1 D that might be available a la Pronger?

Shattenkirk?

Maybe Vlasic, if for some reason the Sharks wanted to hit the reset button.

 

[Mothra]

Cant wait for 44 to get back on the ice