Post-Game Talk: #77 | FLYERS 2 at Stars 3 (OT)| Tue., Mar. 27, 2018, 8:30 pm ET

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

The Flyers outshot the Stars 14-6 in the 3rd last night.

The Flyers outshot the Pens 13-8 in the 3rd on Sunday.

The Flyers outshot the Red Wings 16-4 in the 3rd last week.

THEY DONT HAVE ENOUGH PRODUCTIVE PLAYERS TO WIN THESE CLOSE GAMES

they were trailing by 1 17 seconds into the 3rd against Pittsburgh. Of course they had to press.
they were down 2 entering the 3rd against Detroit and scored 3 goals to get the game to OT.
What was the shot chart in the final 5 minutes last night. better yet, what were the scoring chances in the final 5 minutes?

 

[JXC]

I wonder how this teams top special teams units matches up with other teams around the league top units in usage.

I’d be interested to see those numbers too. My theory is that other teams are deeper, so they can ask their top producers to go longer on special teams.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Watch out for those Gudas-bombs from the point!

Those MacDonald wristers from the furthest corner of the offensive zone are a real treat, I tell you what.

Maybe we can get even more of Simmonds being pushed outside before flinging an unscreened shot from the boards, that's the ticket.

 

[JXC]

Do you think that benching the players who produce high quality chances rather than spamming perimeter shots the second they touch the puck is detrimental?

Again, this isn’t Xbox and it’s not Mighty Ducks.

Your favorite players cannot be out there for every critical moment in every critical game.

 

[deadhead]

2017: 8 OT wins, 2 SO wins, 14 OL losses - 24
2016: 7 OT wins, 7 SO wins, 10 OL losses - 24
2015: 10 OT wins, 3 SO wins, 14 OL losses - 27
2014: 5 OT wins, 3 SO wins, 18 OL losses - 26
2013: 4 OT wins, 3 SO wins, 10 OL losses - 17
2012: 2 OT wins, 1 SO wins, 3 OL losses - 8 (48 games)
2011: 6 OT wins, 4 SO wins, 9 OL losses - 19
2010: 3 OT wins, 3 SO wins, 12 OL losses - 18
When Lavi was winning, he had fewer, probably because the team was good enough not to go to OT as much, regardless of coaching strategy.
The other problem is rule changes, don't know when they occurred.

NJ: 6-5-8 19
CBJ: 8-6-5 19
FLA: 2-3-7 12
PITT: 10-2-6 18

 

[Starat327]

Those MacDonald wristers from the furthest corner of the offensive zone are a real treat, I tell you what.

Maybe we can get even more of Simmonds being pushed outside before flinging an unscreened shot from the boards, that's the ticket.

"Anything can happen if you put it on net. But we know whats going to happen if its not on net at all. Safe play."

 

[JXC]

Even if we did, we probably wouldnt play them anyway, so im not sure what youre up in arms about.

We’ll not know until the Flyers get deeper.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I’d be interested to see those numbers too. My theory is that other teams are deeper, so they can ask their top producers to go longer on special teams.

Shallower teams should be extending their top players' time on the PP to maximize the opportunity to score.


Not punting the PP after 30-40 seconds as Hak commonly does.

 

[Starat327]

We’ll not know until the Flyers get a coach who isnt risk-adverse

fixed it for you.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Again, this isn’t Xbox and it’s not Mighty Ducks.

Your favorite players cannot be out there for every critical moment in every critical game.

Oh look, another strawman.


Do you even have a point, or are you just attempting to bicker to pass the time?

 

[deadhead]

The last five minutes of a tie game are basically overtime.
It depends on the opponent, if you don't care about the opposing team getting one point, play for the sure point, win in OT.
If it's a team that is worth gambling to keep them from getting any points, turn on the heat in the last five minutes IF you're clearly superior.

Teams like Pittsburgh, that can roll out three scoring lines and press the issue, should be more aggressive b/c the odds of them winning in the last five minutes/OT are far greater than 50%.

Flyers the last two seasons are .500 in overtime. So their chances of winning the last 5 minutes are probably similar (a little better b/c they're awful at shootouts, but they're awful at breakaways for the same reason).

Flyers SHOULD be risk adverse with THIS team, because it's not that good and at this point of the season, the top players are starting to drag from overuse (which leads to goals against, see Provorov-Ghost the last few weeks).

Next year, when they're deeper and the young players are stronger and have more experience (and they find a goalie they can trust not to self-destruct), a more aggressive approach may be the optimal strategy.

 

[Beef Invictus]

2017: 8 OT wins, 2 SO wins, 14 OL losses - 24
2016: 7 OT wins, 7 SO wins, 10 OL losses - 24
2015: 10 OT wins, 3 SO wins, 14 OL losses - 27
2014: 5 OT wins, 3 SO wins, 18 OL losses - 26
2013: 4 OT wins, 3 SO wins, 10 OL losses - 17
2012: 2 OT wins, 1 SO wins, 3 OL losses - 8 (48 games)
2011: 6 OT wins, 4 SO wins, 9 OL losses - 19
2010: 3 OT wins, 3 SO wins, 12 OL losses - 18
When Lavi was winning, he had fewer, probably because the team was good enough not to go to OT as much, regardless of coaching strategy.
The other problem is rule changes, don't know when they occurred.

NJ: 6-5-8 19
CBJ: 8-6-5 19
FLA: 2-3-7 12
PITT: 10-2-6 18

So when we went from a good coach to bad coaches with absurdly conservative approaches there's a marked difference. Funny how that works.

Hey, since you're here, do you think a coach who doesn't keep his team conditioned is a good coach?

 

[FlyersMania2]

Again, this isn’t Xbox and it’s not Mighty Ducks.

Your favorite players cannot be out there for every critical moment in every critical game.

This is the weakest thing said on this thread for a second time now. Clearly we all know that this isn't freaking XBOX. But if AMac has the legs to play 3:12 of 5:00 in the final 5, clearly Ghost could play even just a minute. Why are you still saying this? Please move on to a relevant response. We all deserve better.

 

[Beef Invictus]

This is the weakest thing said on this thread for a second time now. Clearly we all know that this isn't freaking XBOX. But if AMac has the legs to play 3:12 of 5:00 in the final 5, clearly Ghost could play even just a minute. Why are you still saying this? Please move on to a relevant response. We all deserve better.

I did laugh at how he couldn't answer a very simple question. I wonder why.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

2017: 8 OT wins, 2 SO wins, 14 OL losses - 24
2016: 7 OT wins, 7 SO wins, 10 OL losses - 24
2015: 10 OT wins, 3 SO wins, 14 OL losses - 27
2014: 5 OT wins, 3 SO wins, 18 OL losses - 26
2013: 4 OT wins, 3 SO wins, 10 OL losses - 17
2012: 2 OT wins, 1 SO wins, 3 OL losses - 8 (48 games)
2011: 6 OT wins, 4 SO wins, 9 OL losses - 19
2010: 3 OT wins, 3 SO wins, 12 OL losses - 18
When Lavi was winning, he had fewer, probably because the team was good enough not to go to OT as much, regardless of coaching strategy.
The other problem is rule changes, don't know when they occurred.

NJ: 6-5-8 19
CBJ: 8-6-5 19
FLA: 2-3-7 12
PITT: 10-2-6 18

31 percent of our games have gone OT the last 4 years.
56 OT/SO losses. clearly we need to keep doing what we are doing right?

 

[Beef Invictus]

The last five minutes of a tie game are basically overtime.
It depends on the opponent, if you don't care about the opposing team getting one point, play for the sure point, win in OT.
If it's a team that is worth gambling to keep them from getting any points, turn on the heat in the last five minutes IF you're clearly superior.

Teams like Pittsburgh, that can roll out three scoring lines and press the issue, should be more aggressive b/c the odds of them winning in the last five minutes/OT are far greater than 50%.

Flyers the last two seasons are .500 in overtime. So their chances of winning the last 5 minutes are probably similar (a little better b/c they're awful at shootouts, but they're awful at breakaways for the same reason).

Flyers SHOULD be risk adverse with THIS team, because it's not that good and at this point of the season, the top players are starting to drag from overuse (which leads to goals against, see Provorov-Ghost the last few weeks).

Next year, when they're deeper and the young players are stronger and have more experience (and they find a goalie they can trust not to self-destruct), a more aggressive approach may be the optimal strategy.

How are they basically overtime? Be specific.


Do they play at 3v3?

 

[FlyersMania2]

I did laugh at how he couldn't answer a very simple question. I wonder why.

It's mind blowing. These points are simple - as fans we should all be concerned by how many games we basically want to go to OT with. Try to win - even if you are being slightly conservative bc you don't trust your goalie it's no excuse to see the least productive and lowest caliber players out on the ice late in tie games. It keeps happening and we keep losing. Pretty easy to see this method is NOT working

 

[Ghosts Beer]

So he double shifts Amac?

Smart.

Even you don’t believe the bull**** excuses you’re making. Just stop.

Yeah, AMac really gets caught up ice as often as Ghost does, or gets stripped trying to rush up the ice with no one behind him as often as Ghost does....

Never said AMac doesn't turn it over. I've complained about this team's inability to clear the defensive zone a zillion times. Just saying that Ghost's mistakes are the kind that more often end up in breakaways and quick-strike goals, and I'd guess that's what Hakstol's thought process is. Trust me, I'm well aware you don't agree with it.

 

[JXC]

Oh look, another strawman.


Do you even have a point, or are you just attempting to bicker to pass the time?

Is this Appeal to Motive or Genetic Fallacy?

Let me know so I can reply thanks

 

[JXC]

Shallower teams should be extending their top players' time on the PP to maximize the opportunity to score.


Not punting the PP after 30-40 seconds as Hak commonly does.

I don’t consider a PP unit with Patrick, TK, and Provorov to be punting.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Is this Appeal to Motive or Genetic Fallacy?

Let me know so I can reply thanks

Why don't you try answering the very simple question I asked instead?

 

[Striiker]

Yeah, AMac really gets caught up ice as often as Ghost does, or gets stripped trying to rush up the ice with no one behind him as often as Ghost does....

Never said AMac doesn't turn it over. I've complained about this team's inability to clear the defensive zone a zillion times. Just saying that Ghost's mistakes are the kind that more often end up in breakaways and quick-strike goals, and I'd guess that's what Hakstol's thought process is. Trust me, I'm well aware you don't agree with it.

No, not as much as Ghost.

MORE than Ghost.

Mac is a part of more odd man rushes. Either as the one who causes them or the one who is defending against them, in which case he always plays it wrong and decides to lay down and stop neither the shot nor pass.

Ghost is easily more skilled, more intelligent, and more safe. You're trying so desperately to defend Hak, but failing so miserably. There's no excuse for using Amac the away he does.

 

[The Rage Kage]

YOU: Strawman are for losers!!!!!!1!

YOU, ten minutes later: I guess Matt Niskanen is better than John Carlson!!!!!1!

He's merely building off of your point, if +/- is a reliable metric to judge defense as you were using it, than what beef said must also be true.

 

[JXC]

if AMac has the legs to play 3:12 of 5:00 in the final 5, clearly Ghost could play even just a minute.

Gostisbehere played more than AMac last night.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Ah, yes. That was totally Ghost's fault. Definitely not the players deciding to go off for a line change or the terrible decision by Voracek to make that pass in the first place.

Where did I say it was *all* Ghost's fault? Nowhere. Other players made mistakes, too. Are you saying none of it is Ghost's fault?
It's funny how we didn't hear much about Ghost making a terrible decision as a defenseman to make the low-percentage play of chasing the puck almost to Dallas' crease and being horribly out of position up the ice as a result.
It was a poor, high-risk decision and it opened up the middle of the ice and helped trigger the odd-man break. Was a huge factor in the losing play.