Post-Game Talk: #77 | FLYERS 2 at Stars 3 (OT)| Tue., Mar. 27, 2018, 8:30 pm ET

JXC

#ThisAintXbox #ThisAintMightyDucks #FireHakstol
Dec 28, 2005
21,925
4,898
People just don't want to accept reality, this team has some good players, but as a whole it's mediocre, with bottom five goaltending.
The teams chasing us are actually worse, they just have hot goaltenders (all posting S% > .930 in March).

So quibble all you want, no coach is going to turn this sow's ear into a silk purse.

That really sums it up.

A roster with too many passengers, subpar goaltending, middle of the road special teams - it all adds up to a team fighting to make the playoffs.
 

FlyersMania2

#FireHakstol
Jul 4, 2007
3,796
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NJ
That really sums it up.

A roster with too many passengers, subpar goaltending, middle of the road special teams - it all adds up to a team fighting to make the playoffs.

Must use THIS roster, Hakstol has NO choice.
 

Starat327

Top .01% OnlyHands
Sponsor
May 8, 2011
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Philadelphia, Pa
That really sums it up.

A roster with too many passengers, subpar goaltending, middle of the road special teams - it all adds up to a team fighting to make the playoffs.

This team isn't fighting to make anything. It's causally meandering along, playing it safe and hoping everyone else slips up.
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
128,054
165,927
Armored Train
Nobody has claimed that the roster is great, or that a coach can magically fix that.


You know what a good coach can do though? Get the most out of his roster instead of leaving games behind, like Hak does. "The most" isn't gonna be a Cup, but it sure as hell is better than this.

Can you two for like just a minute try actually arguing about what people claim instead of constantly moving the goalposts and trying to create distractions?
 

JXC

#ThisAintXbox #ThisAintMightyDucks #FireHakstol
Dec 28, 2005
21,925
4,898
Must use THIS roster, Hakstol has NO choice.
Are you under the impression that there’s a different roster available to him?

Again - this isn’t Mighty Ducks where there are two scorers just waiting to be discovered whilst playing street hockey in a nearby parking lot.
 

Starat327

Top .01% OnlyHands
Sponsor
May 8, 2011
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Nobody has claimed that the roster is great, or that a coach can magically fix that.


You know what a good coach can do though? Get the most out of his roster instead of leaving games behind, like Hak does. "The most" isn't gonna be a Cup, but it sure as hell is better than this.

Can you two for like just a minute try actually arguing about what people claim instead of constantly moving the goalposts and trying to create distractions?

This gets funnier when you revisit threads from a few weeks ago, when the argument against playing Sanheim was "the coach's job is to win, and hes playing the players he thinks give him the best chance to do that."

So which is it? The coach is trying to win - and therefore his sheltered minutes ideas goes against that.

Or, he's trying to develop players - in which case, why the hell are older verts playing the tougher minutes, instead of letting the younger players get that experience now, instead of when the team actually is trying to win?
 

FlyersMania2

#FireHakstol
Jul 4, 2007
3,796
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NJ
Nobody has claimed that the roster is great, or that a coach can magically fix that.


You know what a good coach can do though? Get the most out of his roster instead of leaving games behind, like Hak does. "The most" isn't gonna be a Cup, but it sure as hell is better than this.

Can you two for like just a minute try actually arguing about what people claim instead of constantly moving the goalposts and trying to create distractions?

This. A good coach maximizes the best attributes of his players - there is no team in the NHL that is perfectly well-rounded, it's that weaknesses are hidden and strengths are emphasized. Do people really expect to have 12 great fwds and 6 great dmen? Most players will have their flaws - but playing as a unit and coaching that emphasizes the best in its talent = great coaching. It's not like all these prior Detroit players' names were anything back in the day. Half of them were undrafted nobodies that on paper early in their careers didn't look like much.

This idea we should be handed a "mighty duck" like team or "xbox" like team filled with superstars in order to be competitive is immature. We do have better talent NOT playing but we need a coach who can work with what we do have. This is the result of our "rebuild" for years and years and years - this isn't the 07 Flyers with a bunch of half injured guys at the end of their careers.
 

FlyersMania2

#FireHakstol
Jul 4, 2007
3,796
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Are you under the impression that there’s a different roster available to him?

Again - this isn’t Mighty Ducks where there are two scorers just waiting to be discovered whilst playing street hockey in a nearby parking lot.

YAY THE MIGHTY DUCKS ARGUMENT IS BACK!

When we were in a ten game losing streak, we should have been dressing the young guys - NAK, Leier, Vechionne, Martel, Sanheim, Myers, Morin, etc, etc, etc - hell even Goulbourne. We should be seeing what they have. Let them play together for a period. Many of them are no worse than Manning, AMac, Jori and Read. If they are, then you should be questioning Hextall and I believe there is a thread for that.
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
128,054
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Armored Train
Would you trade our roster for Pittsburgh’s?


We don't need to. Sullivan is a great coach, much better than Hakstol. Compare how Pitt fared before him, with how they've fared under him.


Sullivan knows what his players' strengths are and he puts them in position to succeed, a position he maximizes by exploiting the opposition's weaknesses, both in terms of roster and system. Hakstol doesn't do that. Sullivan would absolutely get more out of this roster than Hakstol does.
 
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JXC

#ThisAintXbox #ThisAintMightyDucks #FireHakstol
Dec 28, 2005
21,925
4,898
This team isn't fighting to make anything. It's causally meandering along, playing it safe and hoping everyone else slips up.
They’re 3-0-3 in their last six games.
 

JXC

#ThisAintXbox #ThisAintMightyDucks #FireHakstol
Dec 28, 2005
21,925
4,898
We don't need to. Sullivan is a great coach, much better than Hakstol. Compare how Pitt fared before him, with how they've fared under him.


Sullivan knows what his players' strengths are and he puts them in position to succeed, a position he maximizes by exploiting the opposition's weaknesses, both in terms of roster and system. Hakstol doesn't do that. Sullivan would absolutely get more out of this roster than Hakstol does.
Do you think Sullivan has a better roster than Hakstol?
 

FlyersMania2

#FireHakstol
Jul 4, 2007
3,796
3,152
NJ
Do you think Sullivan has a better roster than Hakstol?

He has Sidney Crosby which instantly means he has a better roster than every other team in the NHL. What a dumb question.

1 team has best player in NHL right now, which means 30 other teams are worse by that fact alone.
 
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FLYguy3911

Sanheim Lover
Oct 19, 2006
53,108
86,448
And in reference to your previous post, I certainly do think Ghost's being -13 in his last 13 games is relevant. He's been on the ice for a ton more ES goals against than ES goals for lately, which seems to get ignored.
Why is this such a difficult concept?

Rookie Ghost was +8 (2nd best on the team) and got benched late in tie games.
Sophomore Ghost was -21 and got benched late in tie games.
Third year Ghost was +19 at the start of March and got benched late in tie games.

It does not matter what his +/- is. The coach does not believe he gives the team the best chance to get points late in games unless they are trailing.

But let's say Hakstol does believe that the 13 games prior to last night were more valuable than anything else:

GF% 5v5 last 13 team games:
Provorov 37.50%
Manning 41.66%
Gudas 38.89%
MacDonald 60.00%

Sanheim 88.89%

The guys in the bold were the ones playing down the stretch. Not exactly inspiring a lot of confidence.

But mostly I disagree with you that each minute of each game is exactly the same.
In the first period, you are looking to score, and if you give up a goal, you have plenty of time to come back.
As time ticks away in tie games or games you are winning, the odds increase that one bad turnover can cost you a point or two, because you have less time to get it back. It's also why historically in the NHL teams who are leading entering the 3rd period have an incredible winning percentage -- because their opponents don't have a lot of time to score.

Well if Hakstol is really worried about turnovers 9 and 47 wouldn't be a go to pair. MacDonald is good for 2-3 turnovers a game in the corner on his backhand with plenty of time to move the puck. Does anyone turn the puck over more in the Dzone than Provorov? He had 2 or 3 bad turnovers last night that fortunately didn't hurt the Flyers, but surely would have gotten the attention of a coach worried about turnovers. Honestly, Ghost manages the puck better than any defenseman on the team and anything suggesting he's more turnover prone than other defensemen is laughable.

In the last 5 minutes of a game, if you give up a goal, chances are you aren't going to score another one in regulation. I bet the Flyers have stats on it.
So it does make some sense to try to make sure you get to OT to ensure one point when there's that little time left, and then your riskier offensive players can play in a 3-on-3 situation where they, in theory, they should have a better chance to score without the risk of a bad turnover costing the team a point or two.

Or maybe the Flyers realize the odds of winning a game with 2 goals is slim and they should put their best players on the ice and try to score a 3rd goal and win the game in regulation. How about that? Especially when this team is not good in the OT stages of the game.

The only thing that changes late in games is coaches shorten their benches and ride their best players. Gostisbehere is unquestionably one of the 5 best players on the team and should be playing the last 5 minutes of a tie game. That is not debatable.

 

JXC

#ThisAintXbox #ThisAintMightyDucks #FireHakstol
Dec 28, 2005
21,925
4,898
He has Sidney Crosby which instantly means he has a better roster than every other team in the NHL. What a dumb question.

Well, if the Flyers traded Giroux Couts Ghost and Provie for Crosby, the Flyers would not have the better roster though, I think.
 

FlyersMania2

#FireHakstol
Jul 4, 2007
3,796
3,152
NJ
Well, if the Flyers traded Giroux Couts Ghost and Provie for Crosby, the Flyers would not have the better roster though, I think.

Yes because removing 4 players for 1 is subtraction. They have a roster of players + Crosby. Talking about trading away a bunch of our players for Crosby is a different conversation and one I am not willing to have.

I am starting to wonder if you are a troll...
 

The Rage Kage

Registered User
Apr 21, 2014
6,245
5,083
Are you under the impression that there’s a different roster available to him?

Again - this isn’t Mighty Ducks where there are two scorers just waiting to be discovered whilst playing street hockey in a nearby parking lot.
Are you sure? I could have sworn it was.... sure surprised me!
 
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JXC

#ThisAintXbox #ThisAintMightyDucks #FireHakstol
Dec 28, 2005
21,925
4,898
He does, but that is irrelevant.
It’s completely relevant.

Sullivan has the better roster. And he’s a great coach.

Hakstol has the lesser roster. And he’s an awful coach.

But after 75 games, the two teams are separated by 2 points.

:huh:
 

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