OT: 66th Obsequious Banter Thread: Get your kicks in thread 66

[Amorgus]

Definitely up there with my favorite movies ever. Definitely the best Star Trek movie and honestly, I like it more than any Star Wars movie.

The end still makes me cry.

On that note, when Nimoy died, it one of the first times I can remember crying from a celebrity death.

I didn't cry until I watched Star Trek II the next day on Netflix and got to the death scene. Spock was a character for the ages and I can't imagine what he would've been like without Leonard Nimoy.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Star Trek II is a flat out great movie. It also isn't about adventuretime in space like so many of the series that came after, it's actually about growing old and how we deal with it.

The best of the whole universe have absolutely nothing to do with adventures, which is weird given the premise.

In TNG, it's Chain of Command (There are 4 lights.), Darmok (the analogy language people), Tapestry (Picard's It's A Wonderful Life), The Inner Light (Picard lives a lifetime schtick), the Data philosophical stuff, etc.

In DS9, it's Sisko being a frustrated 1950s scifi writer, the one where Jake lives a life trying to save Sisko, the meta Tribble thing, Garak's character arc, etc.

The concept is hokey, but it's just a vehicle to get to the good stuff.

 

[klutch]

View attachment 193293

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

It was just a movie. It wasn't particularly interesting, nor was it well written and half the actors seemed to just be mailing it in. It's just an excuse to make money at this point. Basically everything after the original 3 films is just The Godfather 3, over and over again.

My thoughts on Solo were basically that if it were just a random Star Wars movie, not supposed to be Han Solo, it would have been better.

But both the actor and character were NOTHING like Han so it was just off-putting the entire time...

On its own, with no regard or reference to anything else, it was a poorly conceived and poorly made film, period. It just wasn't any good. I am going to say this again (and I'm not necessarily talking about you two guys) - we absolutely have to raise our standards back to some semblance of normalcy and stop just shrugging about everything and saying "Meh, it was OK." In no way, shape or form was that film "OK" on any level - it was poor. I say that, again, with the caveat that I need to watch it again to confirm that opinion.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Star Wars died with with The Phantom Menace but the symptoms of the illness first showed up in the Special Editions (most would probably say the Ewoks were the beginning but I have a soft spot for those little bastards due to my family). I went from reading 50+ Star Wars novels to just cold turkey "**** this.".

The beginning of that area of Star Wars problems was the Cantina scene in "A New Hope," but the Ewoks definitely closed the coffin on my childhood.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Star Wars original story was interesting and new and was perfect for what it was when it came out - i’m a massive fan of what it was. But it’s done. Rogue One was probably the closest thing to something that seemed worthwhile to put on the screen (not that it was that great).

What’s the point now? Starting with the prequels and moving into the latest trilogy it has nothing new or fresh to say. It’s just things happening in the Star Wars universe to sell toys.

As far as Star Trek goes, I haven’t been watching Discovery but for the most part they continued to tell super compelling and interesting stories with interesting characters throughout 4/5 separate series. Not every movie was good but a lot of them were. On the other hand Star Wars was never a cerebral franchise where you can continue to tell clever stories. It’s much more of a basic adventure saga which is fine, but once you do all these themes once there’s not much left other than rehash. The core of what is Star Wars doesn’t lend itself to continued exploration IMO

There are a million ways to take this world of Star Wars and make it interesting. The samurai tie-ins to the Jedi are ripe for exploitation. The alternate races and planets, handled with care, could be awesome (though that sort of thing would probably be handled better in a series). There's no reason it has to be the flaccid **** we have seen lately - it doesn't have to be lame. I just wish the rights had gone to a more imaginative place than ****ing Disney, but the flipside is that Disney has the coin to produce tons and tons of new material. I think the best we can hope for is that lightning strikes once in a while, like it did with "Rogue One" or Genndy Tartakovsky's "Clone Wars" (or even the "Clone Wars" that came after that and had plenty of cool things to sink your teeth into), and we get something cool.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The best of the whole universe have absolutely nothing to do with adventures, which is weird given the premise.

In TNG, it's Chain of Command (There are 4 lights.), Darmok (the analogy language people), Tapestry (Picard's It's A Wonderful Life), The Inner Light (Picard lives a lifetime schtick), the Data philosophical stuff, etc.

In DS9, it's Sisko being a frustrated 1950s scifi writer, the one where Jake lives a life trying to save Sisko, the meta Tribble thing, Garak's character arc, etc.

The concept is hokey, but it's just a vehicle to get to the good stuff.

The Inner Light is heavy as hell. Imagine living an ENTIRE LIFE and then having to resume your normal day job like nothing happened, and nobody around you gets it.

I have a severe issue with the movies from First Contact on because they are either shitting all over Picard's character or serving as a Brent Spiner ego rush, but at least Picard going from a measured diplomat to a kill-happy warmonger can be understood as him finally snapping from the accumulated strain of Chain of Command, Inner Light, and being Locutus.

Speaking of Locutus, that episode where Picard goes home and mud-wrestles his brother is really good too. The dude was dealing with a lot and it's great that the show addressed that.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The beginning of that area of Star Wars problems was the Cantina scene in "A New Hope," but the Ewoks definitely closed the coffin on my childhood.

I think the beginning of that problem was the involvement of George Lucas. It's all a huge Catch-22. The only way to have had Star Wars without that goofy nonsense is to not have Star Wars.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

The best of the whole universe have absolutely nothing to do with adventures, which is weird given the premise.

In TNG, it's Chain of Command (There are 4 lights.), Darmok (the analogy language people), Tapestry (Picard's It's A Wonderful Life), The Inner Light (Picard lives a lifetime schtick), the Data philosophical stuff, etc.

In DS9, it's Sisko being a frustrated 1950s scifi writer, the one where Jake lives a life trying to save Sisko, the meta Tribble thing, Garak's character arc, etc.

The concept is hokey, but it's just a vehicle to get to the good stuff.

That Darmok episode was on last night on a random channel. So good. The DS9 Tribble episode was on the other night as well. The best Star Trek episodes are just so rewarding

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I'm never going to get a better chance to use this.

 

[Beef Invictus]

That Darmok episode was on last night on a random channel. So good. The DS9 Tribble episode was on the other night as well. The best Star Trek episodes are just so rewarding

Any Gilgamesh reference in pop culture always gets my Humbaba pumping.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I'm never going to get a better chance to use this.

My corworker is trying to talk about serious things and I'm just laughing in her face because of this.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

There are a million ways to take this world of Star Wars and make it interesting. The samurai tie-ins to the Jedi are ripe for exploitation. The alternate races and planets, handled with care, could be awesome (though that sort of thing would probably be handled better in a series). There's no reason it has to be the flaccid **** we have seen lately - it doesn't have to be lame. I just wish the rights had gone to a more imaginative place than ****ing Disney, but the flipside is that Disney has the coin to produce tons and tons of new material. I think the best we can hope for is that lightning strikes once in a while, like it did with "Rogue One" or Genndy Tartakovsky's "Clone Wars" (or even the "Clone Wars" that came after that and had plenty of cool things to sink your teeth into), and we get something cool.

I sort of agree, you definitely COULD make good Star Wars material if they tried. But at the same time, Star Wars was never really about those alien races and planets, they were surface level fluff.

I just don’t think Star Wars actually is much of a world building type of franchise. It’s much more of straight forward story that takes place in a large world that is a backdrop

 

[Beef Invictus]

I sort of agree, you definitely COULD make good Star Wars material if they tried. But at the same time, Star Wars was never really about those alien races and planets, they were surface level fluff.

I just don’t think Star Wars actually is much of a world building type of franchise. It’s much more of straight forward story that takes place in a large world that is a backdrop

And this is probably why I don't get the harsh critique of Rey. There's nothing wrong with her story for Star Wars standards and all the criticism is very nitpicky to me. It's a series that began with a walking grunting dog wandering around, maybe it's best to avoid digging too deeply below the surface.

Star Trek is similar, too. It tends to get more engaged in the technical aspects of its world than Star Wars does, and does a better job of making that work. Voyager didn't work for me though because it tried digging too deeply. I didn't need to see 25 minutes of fake technobabble per episode.

 

[Striiker]

There are a million ways to take this world of Star Wars and make it interesting. The samurai tie-ins to the Jedi are ripe for exploitation. The alternate races and planets, handled with care, could be awesome (though that sort of thing would probably be handled better in a series). There's no reason it has to be the flaccid **** we have seen lately - it doesn't have to be lame. I just wish the rights had gone to a more imaginative place than ****ing Disney, but the flipside is that Disney has the coin to produce tons and tons of new material. I think the best we can hope for is that lightning strikes once in a while, like it did with "Rogue One" or Genndy Tartakovsky's "Clone Wars" (or even the "Clone Wars" that came after that and had plenty of cool things to sink your teeth into), and we get something cool.

Exactly, I've said the same thing before.

The Star Wars universe could so easily be used as the setting of quality sci-fi adventure movies and it would be better off if they did it completely separate from the original story. Just leave those characters alone and make something new. They're just asking for trouble every time they link to the originals and fail to meet the bar that's been set, so just stop trying.

I see videos like this and it's easy to imagine the possibilities...



Also, this may be sacrilege, but I prefer the prequel-style lightsaber fights (like in the video above) to the style from the originals or the sequels, where they act as if they're using real heavy swords. They can go a bit overboard with the choreography in some fights, but it just makes more sense. It's a laser sword... it shouldn't look heavy... the only weight is the hilt, not the laser.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

And this is probably why I don't get the harsh critique of Rey. There's nothing wrong with her story for Star Wars standards and all the criticism is very nitpicky to me. It's a series that began with a walking grunting dog wandering around, maybe it's best to avoid digging too deeply below the surface.

Star Trek is similar, too. It tends to get more engaged in the technical aspects of its world than Star Wars does, and does a better job of making that work. Voyager didn't work for me though because it tried digging too deeply. I didn't need to see 25 minutes of fake technobabble per episode.

To me Rey is the least of the problems with Star Wars. Kylo is pretty interesting too, as far as Star Wars character goes.

It’s the nonsensical and pointless and reused plots, fan service with constant homages, and the superfluous characters that only exist to embolden Disney’s image that are the largest problem with the franchise.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

Exactly, I've said the same thing before.

The Star Wars universe could so easily be used as the setting of quality sci-fi adventure movies and it would be better off if they did it completely separate from the original story. Just leave those characters alone and make something new. They're just asking for trouble every time they link to the originals and fail to meet the bar that's been set, so just stop trying.

I see videos like this and it's easy to imagine the possibilities...



Also, this may be sacrilege, but I prefer the prequel-style lightsaber fights (like in the video above) to the style from the originals or the sequels, where they act as if they're using real heavy swords. They can go a bit overboard with the choreography in some fights, but it just makes more sense. It's a laser sword... it shouldn't look heavy... the only weight is the hilt, not the laser.

I mean, a lot of those prequel light saber battles got completely out of control. Like Yoda flipping around everywhere for like 10 minutes

 

[Striiker]

I mean, a lot of those prequel light sabre battles got completely out of control. Like Yoda flipping around everywhere for like 10 minutes

Yeah, that's what I meant by "overboard".

 

[Lord Defect]

I just finished the umbrella academy. What a waste of time that turned out to be in the end.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

I think I just saw that the Italian series "Gomorrah" is on Netflix now. There have been three seasons, with the fourth supposed to come out this March, but I think just the first two are on Netflix so far.

I have said it before, but I can't possibly recommend it strongly enough. It is so, so, so ****ing awesome.

 

[PALE PWNR]

Exactly, I've said the same thing before.

The Star Wars universe could so easily be used as the setting of quality sci-fi adventure movies and it would be better off if they did it completely separate from the original story. Just leave those characters alone and make something new. They're just asking for trouble every time they link to the originals and fail to meet the bar that's been set, so just stop trying.

I see videos like this and it's easy to imagine the possibilities...



Also, this may be sacrilege, but I prefer the prequel-style lightsaber fights (like in the video above) to the style from the originals or the sequels, where they act as if they're using real heavy swords. They can go a bit overboard with the choreography in some fights, but it just makes more sense. It's a laser sword... it shouldn't look heavy... the only weight is the hilt, not the laser.

It's a shame EA, EA'd up The Old Republic. On one hand because it was EA you had a budget to make these super awesome looking games, with full voice actors for all characters in an MMO. On the other hand they did what EA does best and Monetized the shit out of everything, f***ing up the game and released it without any good end game content. People flew through the leveling up process in that game when it first came out, and that was honestly the best parts of the game, because once you reached level cap there was hardly anything to do.

If you've never played Knights of the Old Republic 1 and 2, you should.

Also the stories in The Old Republic for that game are great if you're ok with grinding out some stuff to progress it.

 

[Lord Defect]

And this is probably why I don't get the harsh critique of Rey. There's nothing wrong with her story for Star Wars standards and all the criticism is very nitpicky to me. It's a series that began with a walking grunting dog wandering around, maybe it's best to avoid digging too deeply below the surface.

Star Trek is similar, too. It tends to get more engaged in the technical aspects of its world than Star Wars does, and does a better job of making that work. Voyager didn't work for me though because it tried digging too deeply. I didn't need to see 25 minutes of fake technobabble per episode.

My critique with Rey is that she just happens to learn about, on her own, every force power she needs at the exact moment and becomes adequate enough to overcome whatever is in her way.
The extended, now non canon, material has had any and every force user having spend years of training under a master.
Finn, turned down an order to murder innocent people, rightly so, but then moments later relished in killing many of the stormtroopers he was friends with his whole life. If not friends, at least friendly with.
Didn’t Finn also use a lightsaber? Don’t you have to be force sensitive or whatever to use one? But then don’t touch at it again in the next movie at all. (For all I know I could have that last part confused with Lone Star struggling to use his Schwartz.)

 

[Lord Defect]

It's a shame EA, EA'd up The Old Republic. On one hand because it was EA you had a budget to make these super awesome looking games, with full voice actors for all characters in an MMO. On the other hand they did what EA does best and Monetized the **** out of everything, ****ing up the game and released it without any good end game content. People flew through the leveling up process in that game when it first came out, and that was honestly the best parts of the game, because once you reached level cap there was hardly anything to do.

If you've never played Knights of the Old Republic 1 and 2, you should.

Also the stories in The Old Republic for that game are great if you're ok with grinding out some stuff to progress it.

Best Star Wars game is shadows of the empire. Period. KOTOR is a close second.

 

[Striiker]

It's a shame EA, EA'd up The Old Republic. On one hand because it was EA you had a budget to make these super awesome looking games, with full voice actors for all characters in an MMO. On the other hand they did what EA does best and Monetized the **** out of everything, ****ing up the game and released it without any good end game content. People flew through the leveling up process in that game when it first came out, and that was honestly the best parts of the game, because once you reached level cap there was hardly anything to do.

If you've never played Knights of the Old Republic 1 and 2, you should.

Also the stories in The Old Republic for that game are great if you're ok with grinding out some stuff to progress it.

Yeah, I’ve never played it. I only know about it because of the awesome cinematics.

There’s a lot of cinematics for different games that are awesome and I wish were turned into full movies (even if the entire thing was animated the same way). Star Wars, Halo, Mass Effect, etc. I wonder why none ever have been.

 

[Beef Invictus]

My critique with Rey is that she just happens to learn about, on her own, every force power she needs at the exact moment and becomes adequate enough to overcome whatever is in her way.

Canon material explains that she stole the info from Kylo's mind when he tried breaking into hers. Learning new skills on the fly as needed was also something Luke did. Nobody taught him how to blind-fire torpedoes using the force. Nobody had taught him how to grab his lightsaber out of the ice with the force.

The extended, now non canon, material has had any and every force user having spend years of training under a master.

Not Luke. Luke barely spent any time with any masters and was self-taught. Additionally, the Dark Empire series from that defunct canon had several people using the force without any formal training.

Finn, turned down an order to murder innocent people, rightly so, but then moments later relished in killing many of the stormtroopers he was friends with his whole life. If not friends, at least friendly with.

Oh, he killed the people who were just committing atrocities and that had abducted him from his family at a young age to conscript him into the Space SS? I can't blame him.

Han Solo made a similar rash decision that completely destroyed his old life when he returned to the Death Star to help Luke, who he barely knew at that point; he'd just served as his Space Uber driver.

Didn’t Finn also use a lightsaber? Don’t you have to be force sensitive or whatever to use one? But then don’t touch at it again in the next movie at all. (For all I know I could have that last part confused with Lone Star struggling to use his Schwartz.)

Nah. Force mastery isn't required for using a lightsaber. The indication seems to be that you need to be a force user to build one, but if you've got one you just hit the "on" button. Example: General Grievous running his lightsaber rave.