Prospect Info: #46 Givani Smith, LW, Guelph (OHL)

[Christien]

In the lineup tonight and picked up an assist

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Would call him up over that bum Megan...

 

[Kingpin794]

Is this guy a bust? Why is he not producing?

bust implies there was some sort of ceiling to reach. He was never going to "produce". Those aren't the characteristics that got him drafted. He plays with a lot of intensity and grit. Fans like him for it, but he gets in his own way. He's panning out exactly as he should be right now IMO.

 

[Killerjas]

bust implies there was some sort of ceiling to reach. He was never going to "produce". Those aren't the characteristics that got him drafted. He plays with a lot of intensity and grit. Fans like him for it, but he gets in his own way. He's panning out exactly as he should be right now IMO.

I understand that, but why give up a 2nd round pick for someone like Smith? Don't you want to pick up a player like Smith in the later rounds? The 2nd round usually have a lot of high talent players.

 

[Kingpin794]

I understand that, but why give up a 2nd round pick for someone like Smith? Don't you want to pick up a player like Smith in the later rounds? The 2nd round usually have a lot of high talent players.

1) Idk why they took him in the second. Just because he was picked in the second doesn't change what his overall upside is.

2) you don't even have to use picks to get players like Smith. You can get them for cheap in FA.

3) Yeah there is a lot of talent in the second. This past draft I think showed a shift in philosophy. Now they might go for the smaller skilled guy over the bigger grit player.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I understand that, but why give up a 2nd round pick for someone like Smith? Don't you want to pick up a player like Smith in the later rounds? The 2nd round usually have a lot of high talent players.

Because another team would take him and they wanted him? There are other skillsets than "high talent scorer".

 

[Kronwalled55]

I understand that, but why give up a 2nd round pick for someone like Smith? Don't you want to pick up a player like Smith in the later rounds? The 2nd round usually have a lot of high talent players.

Many thought the same for Tyler Bertuzzi. We originally looked crazy for that pick but he's panning out.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

1) Idk why they took him in the second. Just because he was picked in the second doesn't change what his overall upside is.

2) you don't even have to use picks to get players like Smith. You can get them for cheap in FA.

3) Yeah there is a lot of talent in the second. This past draft I think showed a shift in philosophy. Now they might go for the smaller skilled guy over the bigger grit player.

1) They took him in the 2nd because other teams wanted him too. They thought he was a good player who might make their team.

2) Oh do you really? Guy like Matt Martin for 2.5M? You shouldn't be signing role player/grinders from FA. Those are the guys you draft who play well for you. You get the really ****ty re-treads like Daniel Winnik for cheap from FA.

3) There is a bunch of talent everywhere in the draft. The Wings are going to go with the player who they think will do the most to help the Detroit Red Wings, be he big, tall, and strong, or short, speedy, and shifty. People want to criticize their drafts or pin down "oh, they're just taking big guys this year" but it really comes down to what is available to them. Hell, they wanted a defenseman this year but for three straight picks they went Wing, center, wing due to the value of the picks available.

There isn't a "change in philosophy" in what Detroit does. They've taken who they feel is the best guy available at whatever pick they have and gone with that. People just want to repeat that to themselves so they can feel better that the Wings passed on Gabriel Vilardi or Martin Necas when, by god, they would have been so much further ahead with them than Rasmussen.

 

[izlez]

Clearly the red wings knew this was a guy bad at hockey and they just chose to take him in the 2nd because in that particular year, they thought to themselves, "the strategy here is to go for a guy that is not going to make the NHL". This why Holland is a bad GM. Bad GM's regularly choose bad hockey players on purpose. The truly great ones have just convinced themselves to resist that urge and just take good hockey players all the time.


Or they tried to get a good hockey player. Sometimes that works out, sometimes it doesn't (this still might).

 

[Killerjas]

Many thought the same for Tyler Bertuzzi. We originally looked crazy for that pick but he's panning out.

Tyler Bertuzzi is a completely different player, you can't compare both picks TBH

 

[Kingpin794]

1) They took him in the 2nd because other teams wanted him too. They thought he was a good player who might make their team.

2) Oh do you really? Guy like Matt Martin for 2.5M? You shouldn't be signing role player/grinders from FA. Those are the guys you draft who play well for you. You get the really ****ty re-treads like Daniel Winnik for cheap from FA.

3) There is a bunch of talent everywhere in the draft. The Wings are going to go with the player who they think will do the most to help the Detroit Red Wings, be he big, tall, and strong, or short, speedy, and shifty. People want to criticize their drafts or pin down "oh, they're just taking big guys this year" but it really comes down to what is available to them. Hell, they wanted a defenseman this year but for three straight picks they went Wing, center, wing due to the value of the picks available.

There isn't a "change in philosophy" in what Detroit does. They've taken who they feel is the best guy available at whatever pick they have and gone with that. People just want to repeat that to themselves so they can feel better that the Wings passed on Gabriel Vilardi or Martin Necas when, by god, they would have been so much further ahead with them than Rasmussen.

Did other teams want him? Sure. But you have to show better control and know that you can find a player liken Givani Smith in round 4 or 5 instead of getting paranoid/tunnel vision and taking him in the 2nd.

Got Luke Witkowski for cheap at that's about what you're getting.

 

[Reddwit]

Many thought the same for Tyler Bertuzzi. We originally looked crazy for that pick but he's panning out.

The fans thought it was out of left field but it sounds like he was on everyone's radar that spring:

Guelph general manager, Mike Kelly, had a phone pasted to the side of his head in the months and weeks leading up to the draft because of the buzz Bertuzzi created in the limited games he played during the 2012-13 season — he missed 25 games due to head and neck injuries.

“Tyler was the player we got the most calls on from NHL teams,” Kelly said. “He has the heart of a lion and is fearless. When the hockey gets tough, he rises to the occasion and plays his best. Away from the games, he is easy-going and light-hearted, but when the puck drops, he is nothing but serious. He’s not just about grit. He makes good decisions, has a good feel for the game and good hands. He’s not one-dimensional.”

Bertuzzi had a shit start to his season that year. 4P in 15 games before getting injured and out for 2.5 months. He came back and put up .65 ppg while being a terror. But by the time he was generating that buzz, it would've been February at the earliest. Too late for the darkhorse hype train to catch on for him. Keep in mind this also would've been peak Bruins hype where the NHL was in love with big Looch and little Marchand and all the trappings that came along with physical players who had hidden finesse. Bertuzzi very much fit that mold.

Givani, on the other hand, looks like the Wings outsmarting themselves. I think the excitement surrounding his solid numbers paired with his physicality had them forgetting the legitimate concerns about skating, discipline, and IQ. Too many question marks for a guy with questionable skill to overcome.

 

[TCNorthstars]

I understand that, but why give up a 2nd round pick for someone like Smith? Don't you want to pick up a player like Smith in the later rounds? The 2nd round usually have a lot of high talent players.

Statistically only 31.1% of players drafted in the 2nd round play 100+ games in the NHL. And Smith was picked in the back half of the 2nd round. So it really is a crap shoot.

 

[Ezekial]

I understand that, but why give up a 2nd round pick for someone like Smith? Don't you want to pick up a player like Smith in the later rounds? The 2nd round usually have a lot of high talent players.

His production in his draft year was pretty solidly .66 ppg on a bad Guelph team (42 points was good for second on the team). The problem with G is his D+1 his ppg stayed basically the exact same and his offensive game never took the step they had hoped, they even added Merkely in that season and he led the team in points. He never really progressed in that way as a prospect. He is still an NHL prospect, just a niche type grinder, that element of his game is good.

 

[waltdetroit]

Givani is similar to Bert in that he was a beast during the PO's. Last year at Kitchener, in the 18 PO games, Givani had 11 g & 7 a. If he hadn't been suspended, he may have been the MVP of the series. I hope that he just needs some time to learn the AHL.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Statistically only 31.1% of players drafted in the 2nd round play 100+ games in the NHL. And Smith was picked in the back half of the 2nd round. So it really is a crap shoot.

And we have a winner! If you really want to open your eyes, do some research on expected production by draft position. Posters expecting to find skilled forwards outside of the early part of the first round with any sort of regularity are always going to be disappointed.

While I would certainly like to see Smith produce more, I am not about to freak out after 15 pro games.

 

[Killerjas]

Will he have a future in NHL?

 

[Shaman464]

Will he have a future in NHL?

Probably will play a handful of games over the course of his career, but looks to be a career AHLer.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Probably will play a handful of games over the course of his career, but looks to be a career AHLer.

He is like 20 years old. Impossible to say this yet!

 

[Shaman464]

He is like 20 years old. Impossible to say this yet!

Haha, no, no its not. He's not even noticeable at the AHL level. He is deep down the depth chart, and his inability to skate well or make good decisions with the puck are holding him back.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Gordie Howe hattrick today. Really liking the development of this kid.

 

[FabricDetails]

Gordie Howe hattrick today. Really liking the development of this kid.

He's about to get bumped to the taxi squad, haha.

 

[Henkka]

Haha, no, no its not. He's not even noticeable at the AHL level. He is deep down the depth chart, and his inability to skate well or make good decisions with the puck are holding him back.

Funny to read this kind of old comments. Like, nothing wrong with the comment. It was that on March 2019.

Almost two years passed by.

Looks like there happens some development in our development system.

Same what happened to Zadina. You couldn't see that from AHL games or stats.

 

[nhlisawesome]

Books still out on Zadina lol he needs to start scoring and making his impact. Smith looks perfect for what he is a top 9 guy who can chip in and be physical. Loving his style

 

[Henkka]

Books still out on Zadina lol he needs to start scoring and making his impact. Smith looks perfect for what he is a top 9 guy who can chip in and be physical. Loving his style

Yes, he is tough as nails and s-o-b to play against. We need more guys like him.