Post-Game Talk: #3: FLYERS 2 at Canucks 3 (2-1 SO), Saturday, Oct. 12, 2019

[marcsson68]

I know it's blasphemy to give Hagg credit for anything, but he did a good job on the 4-on-3 PK at the end of OT.

Blocked two shots while killing it actually. He does what he can and gives his all. His minutes have been adjusted to make him a servicable 3rd pairing player at the moment.

Too bad we don‘t have shootout players.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I’m good on Bunnaman, not sure I need any more of him. Twarynski has looked like a fine NHL fourth liner, he can stay, but...Bun’s bringing nothing of interest.

Can't remember the last time I was over a prospect who had a tolerable preseason so quickly. He looks like it's taking all he has to try and keep up.

 

[Beef Invictus]

That's a good point. Twar doesn't fake forecheck (and neither does Pitlick) something we haven't seen enough of with the Flyers the last few seasons and something sorely needed.

He's won me over so far, and I didn't like the draft pick at the time. Again, the Flyers' scouts seem to know what they're doing. Twar also has surprised me with a better-than-I-thought skill level.

He plays the right way, gives them a dimension they need, and seems to keep improving. I've seen guys like this end up fizzling out before, but as of now he's showing a lot of reasons for optimism. There's late-bloomer potential here.

I take him over Bunny very easily. He isn't just playing keep-up. Dude puts himself in the right places to succeed. No reason at all to take him off the roster.



Question for everyone: did they do anything about zone entry? Controlled possession was not a thing in the half of the first I saw. Some of that was effective Vancouver defence, a lot of it was by choice.

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

Twar and Pitlick deserve spots. Both have played well. Twar in particular has really impressed me.

Niskanen has been a huge vet addition. It seems to me Braun will make a nice stick play but also gaffe in seemingly equal measures.

 

[mja]

Blocked two shots while killing it actually. He does what he can and gives his all. His minutes have been adjusted to make him a servicable 3rd pairing player at the moment.

He is not a serviceable 3rd pairing guy. His skillset is literally limited to being in the way. There was a sequence in the 1st period when Vancouver had control in our end for an extended amount of time largely because Hagg may as well not have even been on the ice for all the good he was doing. Throughout the sequence he had no idea where the puck was, where it was going, or where he needed to be. The PK plays to his strength(?) by giving him a fixed position to stay in with the simplest of goals - be in the way, but we have at least 3 better defenseman in the system he's getting playing time over, all of whom can do more that just be in the way.

I hate watching him play hockey.

 

[marcsson68]

He is not a serviceable 3rd pairing guy. His skillset is literally limited to being in the way. There was a sequence in the 1st period when Vancouver had control in our end for an extended amount of time largely because Hagg may as well not have even been on the ice for all the good he was doing. Throughout the sequence he had no idea where the puck was, where it was going, or where he needed to be. The PK plays to his strength(?) by giving him a fixed position to stay in with the simplest of goals - be in the way, but we have at least 3 better defenseman in the system he's getting playing time over, all of whom can do more that just be in the way.

I hate watching him play hockey.

Hatred is not a good guide. It leads to picking out a bad moment while neglecting a good one.

 

[orangecrush8]

He is not a serviceable 3rd pairing guy. His skillset is literally limited to being in the way. There was a sequence in the 1st period when Vancouver had control in our end for an extended amount of time largely because Hagg may as well not have even been on the ice for all the good he was doing. Throughout the sequence he had no idea where the puck was, where it was going, or where he needed to be. The PK plays to his strength(?) by giving him a fixed position to stay in with the simplest of goals - be in the way, but we have at least 3 better defenseman in the system he's getting playing time over, all of whom can do more that just be in the way.

I hate watching him play hockey.

There were two outlandish situations last night where the Flyers had clear control of the puck in the Canucks zone and Hagg flipped a shoulder high wrist shot at Markstrom from 45 feet out. No screen. Nothing that could generate a rebound. Just a complete change of possession.

I didn’t even get to see the first two games and I’m already over Hagg. He has ZERO hockey sense and is a clear detriment to the team.

 

[Limeyjim]

Couturier seemed a little off and didn't get quite as much ice time as I'd expect. He may have been one of the guys under the weather. And maybe Jak was, too, because even though he's been bad in general to start the season, he was extra bad tonight.

I'm not a fan of Voracek, and I've been told off by many fans here for making that statement. What everyone is finally seeing is what he normally does, he coasts. I know someone will probably post his past stats to defend him, but I just see him as an overpaid player who doesn't have a place in the future of this team.

 

[phillydownsouth]

I'm not a fan of Voracek, and I've been told off by many fans here for making that statement. What everyone is finally seeing is what he normally does, he coasts. I know someone will probably post his past stats to defend him, but I just see him as an overpaid player who doesn't have a place in the future of this team.

aside from his decent stats, I too think we should trade him while we can get some return. Look what happened when we waited too long with Simmonds...Trade the guy and pick up a young kid with experience. We’re not contenders yet so it doesn’t make sense to keep his huge contract and okay play

 

[NYCFlyer]

I'm not a fan of Voracek, and I've been told off by many fans here for making that statement. What everyone is finally seeing is what he normally does, he coasts. I know someone will probably post his past stats to defend him, but I just see him as an overpaid player who doesn't have a place in the future of this team.

Although I agree he doesn't look great, I think it's a bit early to say he doesn't have a place on the team. They have 5 out of 6 points while adapting to a new coach, new players, new system. He could be under the weather, jet lagged or just having some difficulty adapting to playing with Hayes. I think there will be more tinkering and they will figure it out, he is important to get going.

 

[David St Hubbins]

I like Jake but if it improves the team, I’m happy to see it happen. Now, with that said, exactly who has the cap space to take his contract and send back a young player? More likely it’s a similar contract your getting back with lesser term/talent or about the same of each. Who is that “change of scenery” guy? Or that cap dump?

 

[Striiker]

We’re already at the “trade Voracek” part of the season?

That was quick.

It’s a silly, impatient, and shortsighted idea. Suck it up and deal with his flaws because he’s still a massive net positive and one of our best players.

Oh he makes mistakes? Cool, everyone does. He’s also one of the best scorers in franchise history.

 

[Cootsfanclub]

There was a lot to like from this game.

• Flyers made lots of adjustments mid game and can battle back from a slow start
  
• The neutral zone entry defense is dramatically better
• The bottom six has improved and will only get better a healthy Patrick and call ups
• The second power play unit is continuing to score (first unit needs work though) and the penalty kill is doing its job
  
• Lindblom looks like a legitimate two way force

 

[mja]

Hatred is not a good guide. It leads to picking out a bad moment while neglecting a good one.

I don't hate Robert Hagg. I hate watching him play hockey. That's because he's BAD AT IT and it makes my eyes bleed.

There were two outlandish situations last night where the Flyers had clear control of the puck in the Canucks zone and Hagg flipped a shoulder high wrist shot at Markstrom from 45 feet out. No screen. Nothing that could generate a rebound. Just a complete change of possession.

I didn’t even get to see the first two games and I’m already over Hagg. He has ZERO hockey sense and is a clear detriment to the team.

I know exactly one of the plays you are talking about. I almost threw my remote at my TV.

 

[Bob Clarke Fan Club]

Got back from my first live game ever! Such a good time even though the flyers lost, they played way better in the 3rd, really entertaining game. Also lots of Flyers fans in Vancouver I was surprised!

Rogers Arena got pretty hyped in the 3rd but was reaaally quiet in 1st and 2nd.

I noticed this in both Toronto and Ottawa, Flyers fans travel well.

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

Settling for Hagg is something we don’t have to do. Sure, on a few shifts he doesn’t do anything detrimental..so? If we can improve on him why the f*** wouldn’t we?

It’s like settling for a dumpy girlfriend who occasionally doesn’t irritate the piss out of you when there are hot chicks itching to get into the action.

 

[BritainStix]

This team is playing incredibly well considering they have been in so many different timezones over the last 20 days.

 

[Rebels57]

now we know why hayes signed here, he's are ****ing go to guy apparently. On PP1 over Couts, with G in OT over Jake. ****ing horrible coaching. And comes down to him in SO... lucky for 1 point tonight

Jake's been atrocious through 3 games. Didn't deserve OT ice time last night.

 

[Rebels57]

were absolutely horrible in the 1st and 2nd...

We weren't great in the 1st and 2nd but "absolutely horrible" is a comical exaggeration.

 

[Jettany]

Huh? Giroux, Couturier, and Ghost have all been fantastic...

Not sure how anyone can be unhappy about their quality of play. Their stats are lacking so far, but it's definitely not because they're playing poorly.

I’m with you on this. G has had some glorious chances that he has missed. Its more the production now not the level of play.

 

[Rebels57]

Flyers have pretty consistently this season started off with a mediocre but low scoring 1st, then roared back in the 2nd and 3rd. I could do with less dump and chase, which requires some more talent as well, but the overall process has been sound.

Most of the kids are playing phenomenal right now (PP too!) -- who said Konecny's contract was an overpay again? What a beaut. But the first line is just lacking something to me, despite posting great underlying numbers. Jake wasn't playing well (and I don't love him with Giroux to begin with), but the line basically performed identically without him. I know the Lindblom-Couturier-Konecny line is killing it, but I certainly wouldn't mind reuniting Giroux with Coots. I feel like they both have more to give with each other. Not expecting that next game though.

Kind of a weird night when JVR leads all forwards in 5v5 ice time, although his lines were consistently good, and Braun leads everyone in 5v5 time (not as good at a 39 xGF%). Good job by Twarynski popping his cherry too, but if we could just bump down our 3rd line to the 4th, we'd be golden. We have a lot of good 4th liners on this team, said in both positive and negative connotation. Also, send Hagg to the Phantom Zone (the interdimensional DC Comics prison, NOT located in Lehigh Valley). And I'd like to see more Provorov-Ghost shifts on offensive zone starts, etc.

That is exactly what I posted in the GDT.

We have two 4th lines right now and that's not a sustainable formula for success unless the top 2 lines are really cooking and that Giroux-Hayes-Voracek line is nowhere near cooking. Didn't like that line on paper the second I saw it and their play together on the ice reinforces it. Hell I would rather see Giroux back at C temporarily then go with that line again.

Nolan's absence is creating a problematic ripple effect right now.

 

[Rebels57]

seriously. Niskanen has been a major upgrade. Gudas, while he was good, was pretty inconsistent season to season and doesn't have the passing/iq niskanen does. He has played less and has a lesser role (not playing against top lines like in wsh) so its suiting him more.

I've been extremely impressed with Niskanen. He just does everything the right way and is always where he is supposed to be. Defends odd-man rushes like prime-Timonen too.

 

[deadhead]

Some thoughts:

Voracek had limited minutes 5x5, but the most PP minutes, which might simply mean he was under the weather and AV was rationing his minutes where they were most valuable - I'm not his biggest fan but 3 games is way too early to jump to conclusions.

TK will eventually get used on shootouts, but he has a terrible track record. Down the road I suspect Frost and Farabee will become our top two guys.

The team was definitely jet lagged, no surprise, fly East 6 hours, the West 6 hours, then West 3 hours and your internal clock will be wacko. The next two games should be better as they gradually move back East.

Bunnaman is headed back to LHV, he's not playing as bad as Vorobyev last year, but he's not doing enough to keep the job.

On the other hand Twarynski is showing he belongs in the NHL, not just the goal which was a nice wrist shot, but his overall play. He's not a 3rd line forward right now, but he's not embarrassing himself either, he'll be a solid 4th liner while he learns on the job.

Pitlock is a solid fourth line guy, he and Raffl will look better with a better center.

Braun isn't going to put up great metrics, but a lot of what he does doesn't show up on the stat sheet, he's just a smart player with great instincts who plays within his skill limitations. If the Flyers resign him, it'll be a 1-2 year deal at a price where he can be moved down to the 3rd pair as kids emerge.

This team is a work in progress, I'm not going to get too excited about the first 20 games, if they end up with 22-24 points that will be a successful start to me. I expect things to jell by January, and then watch out league.

 

[Rebels57]

P.S. I've given it some thought, and I still don't like the PP1 set-up. But who does? Please put Giroux and Voracek on their correct sides. I'd like to see Konecny tried in the slot too, though again, I understand them not breaking up what has been a super productive 2nd unit. I wouldn't mind Couturier swapping with Hayes too though. Or even Lindblom. It's just so awkward to watch what was a natural unit.

I really hope they plan to switch back. The top unit does not have a PP goal through 3 games. It's a two-trick pony unit right now. Either a one-timer from Ghost at the top or pass around the umbrella to Giroux who feeds JVR downlow with a pass or deflectable shot. None of it has looked very dangerous so far.

 

[Rebels57]

We’re already at the “trade Voracek” part of the season?

That was quick.

It’s a silly, impatient, and shortsighted idea. Suck it up and deal with his flaws because he’s still a massive net positive and one of our best players.

Oh he makes mistakes? Cool, everyone does. He’s also one of the best scorers in franchise history.

I've been fine with the idea of trading Jake for over a year. I'm also fine keeping him because he will come around, but if the right trade comes along, sayanora. Problem is, the right trade likely won't come around.