Post-Game Talk: #22: FLYERS 5 at Hurricanes 3, Thursday, Nov. 21, 2019, 7:00 pm ET

[TCTC]

Jake probably did the least amount of heavy lifting on that line though. Still hope he sticks there for now.

Yeah, I hope they keep him on that line. Feels like there he can do the least damage to our lineup and him and Couturier always seemed to have at least some chemistry.

 

[Prongo]

Always love the old generic cliches of how a player is flawed, too small, needs to work off the puck. But then nobody provides any evidence of why they are stating these generic “facts” they’ve heard through the years when it comes to all young players.

truth is every player can continually work, younger players in the NHL need to adapt to the speed of the game. It’s one of the biggest hurdles for them to overcome. Our two young top prospects maybe won’t blow the roof off (Frost I believe has the offensive ability to) but they also don’t look out of place. They can skate and keep up. That’s what you need. Learning is always a part of the game.

 

[kudymen]

I love how the idea of moving G to the wing NOT being the coaching staff's move in the first place is SO idiotic that people still refuse to believe Hakstok had nothing to do with it

 

[mja]

Voracek was a weird watch last night for me. He seemed instantly more bullish in the offensive zone working with Couturier but that his timing was a bit off. He was almost dangerous, which I think explains either perception people seemed to have come away with from last night.

I worry about G Frost Konecny if they get pinned in their own end, but their ability to create offense out of very little is sorely needed.

 

[Prongo]

Voracek was a weird watch last night for me. He seemed instantly more bullish in the offensive zone working with Couturier but that his timing was a bit off. He was almost dangerous, which I think explains either perception people seemed to have come away with from last night.

I worry about G Frost Konecny if they get pinned in their own end, but their ability to create offense out of very little is sorely needed.

Which is why we really need the coach to put them in favorable spots in the offense and neutral zone. We have two big centers who can do the lifting. We need those players to create like they showed they can last night. Of course they will get hemmed. Lines always do but if you give them favorable opportunities the offense hopefully will far outweigh the defensive zone issues. At least that’s what I’m hoping for.

 

[Johnk0728]

Watching a replay of Carolina’s 2nd goal, which I blasted Elliott about, I will say it seemed to take a very unusual & unpredictable angle off the stick.

Also, despite Voracek’s Corsi, he wasn’t a positive tonight. Took two horrible penalties & didn’t create much offense despite playing on their best line. A passenger with 2 horrible penalties.

That just shows how flawed the Corsi stat is.

 

[flyersnorth]

Solid and resilient win last night!

I admit when they were down 0-2 within the first, what, like 6 minutes, I watched Jake leave the penalty box and thought, "yup, it's gonna be one of those nights."

Thankfully it wasn't. They struck back quickly and held on for a win even though the ice was tilted in Carolina's favour. Awesome work by the team.

Great penalty kill last night. Provy was excellent, as was Niskanen. Obviously the G, Frost, TK line was dominant offensively. Thought Raffl had a really strong game as well - he's one of those set it, and forget it type of player. Rarely is he on the wrong side of a play, very strong along the boards, strong defensively, kills penalties, and showed some skill playing with skill guys last night.

Jake... well. He's like Yngwie Malmsteen when we really need a David Gilmour. He's got a ton of speed, but he just looks out of sync with whoever he's playing with. Not sure how to snap him out of it, but I hope Lindblom/Coots offense doesn't dry up.

Also - I think Elliott is the worst puck-handling goalie I've ever seen on the Flyers. It's a freakin' adventure every time he plays the puck.

But we beat a division rival in REGULATION! Let's keep 'er rollin!

 

[Striiker]

The result last night was great and watching Giroux-Frost-TK score is awesome, but the rest of the game just hammers home the same glaring flaws that keep coming up and hurting this team.

We had one line that scored all the non-empty net goals, basically converting on every chance they got, but holy f*** the usage was a disaster and could've easily lost us that game, as it no doubt will in the future if (when) they continue doing it.

But at least Giroux was on the correct side of the PP again... and what do you know, it looked way better and scored. Funny how that happens every time they don't ruin it. Maybe they'll realize that this time.

 

[deadhead]

Always love the old generic cliches of how a player is flawed, too small, needs to work off the puck. But then nobody provides any evidence of why they are stating these generic “facts” they’ve heard through the years when it comes to all young players.

truth is every player can continually work, younger players in the NHL need to adapt to the speed of the game. It’s one of the biggest hurdles for them to overcome. Our two young top prospects maybe won’t blow the roof off (Frost I believe has the offensive ability to) but they also don’t look out of place. They can skate and keep up. That’s what you need. Learning is always a part of the game.

If you watch the games you can see the truth behind the cliches.

Ghost is road kill deep in the D-zone, gets pushed out of the crease, beat behind the net, tries to avoid contact - that's what happens when you're a relatively weak 180 lb D-man. Unfortunately, at 26 he is what he is.

Farabee tries really hard, but although he's much stronger than say Ghost at 180 lbs, it's still 180 lbs and when you go to dirty areas, hard to hold your ice against 200+ lb opponents. When he fills out the next couple years he'll become a much better player, the way Lindblom has emerged but faster.

Frost is wonderful in space, like a faster (younger) Giroux, but he can't handle big centers and on the road, teams with centers like Barkov will match them against Frost every chance they get. He'll get stronger and better at using leverage and positioning over the next few years, but he hasn't had to deal with this issue night after night in the CHL.

TK and Lindblom shows what happens as players mature, TK is probably up to 190+ lbs, and has the same fire and speed, but now when he fights for a puck along the boards he can hold his own, and you can't bump him off his stride easily - the fireplug body filled out. Lindblom was full sized when he came up, but two years later he's become lb for lb one of the strongest players in the NHL, winning the majority of board battles and throwing bigger players off the puck.

 

[Van Buren Boy]

Watching extended game highlights...did anyone besides the G line do anything last night? Every highlight was with that line on the ice.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Players dont get many.

Giroux has the 10th most 4+ pt games this decade with 11.

Stamkos leads with 16.

Good to know, just kind of surprised me in such a long and productive career seems like he'd have hit that number a few more times.

Anyway, Voracek's game really is not all that impressive lately. The penalties and turnovers last night, the blown scoring chance...there's just a lot to shrug at. At best he's been the 5th best forward on the team this year. That's a good thing, given that the emergence of Lindblom and Konecny has been instrumental in most of their wins, but it's really not what you're looking for at his price and talent level.

 

[Curufinwe]

Hakstol was clearly heavily involved with the decision to move Giroux to the wing and make Couturier the 1C. He played him there for the entire season of 17-18 when G scored 102 points (66 at ES).

There are plenty of negative things to say about Hak without pretending Hextall forced him to move Giroux out of the center spot.

 

[Rebels57]

The result last night was great and watching Giroux-Frost-TK score is awesome, but the rest of the game just hammers home the same glaring flaws that keep coming up and hurting this team.

We had one line that scored all the non-empty net goals, basically converting on every chance they got, but holy **** the usage was a disaster and could've easily lost us that game, as it no doubt will in the future if (when) they continue doing it.

But at least Giroux was on the correct side of the PP again... and what do you know, it looked way better and scored. Funny how that happens every time they don't ruin it. Maybe they'll realize that this time.

 

[Rebels57]

Good to know, just kind of surprised me in such a long and productive career seems like he'd have hit that number a few more times.

Anyway, Voracek's game really is not all that impressive lately. The penalties and turnovers last night, the blown scoring chance...there's just a lot to shrug at. At best he's been the 5th best forward on the team this year. That's a good thing, given that the emergence of Lindblom and Konecny has been instrumental in most of their wins, but it's really not what you're looking for at his price and talent level.

His 1st period was as frustrating as it gets. Misses a wide-open net on his first shift. Penalty on his 2nd shift that resulted in a GA. Penalty on what I believe was his 3rd or 4th shift.

 

[Rebels57]

Watching extended game highlights...did anyone besides the G line do anything last night? Every highlight was with that line on the ice.

Other lines had some moments but overall the Giroux line was the show. A few dmen had standout games too, especially Provy.

 

[gertbfrobe16]

pretty good night when, the only complaint i had was, that mutt scoring the empty netter. it screwed my score prediction.

 

[Rich Nixon]

His 1st period was as frustrating as it gets. Misses a wide-open net on his first shift. Penalty on his 2nd shift that resulted in a GA. Penalty on what I believe was his 3rd or 4th shift.

I was pretty aghast at the one turnover he had in the first. The Hayes crew broke into the zone with good speed against a worn-out Carolina unit, moved it around the zone for a booming one-timer from Myers, flagged the rebound and it ended up bouncing around right in the direction of Voracek who was coming on in a line change across the blueline with speed...and he just punts it right to a defender for a clear.

I don't know if he was trying to shuffle it around the guy or just pass it low or even just receive it and ended up mishandling it, but it was the kind of thing that he's too good to do. All he had to do was settle it and he had about 10 feet in front of him to walk in for a shot or a dish back to the point. They had everything you could have wanted, a completely collapsed and tired defense with the entire line in the zone and set up to go and the puck drifting towards an unmarked man skating towards the net...and they got nothing.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Ghost credited with zero giveaways. I guess the stat-keeper was taking a dump when Ghost skated into a trap in the neutral zone, turned it over, & Carolina turned it into an odd man advantage in the Flyers’ zone.

OH WHAT A RELIABLE STAT!

 

[JXC]

If you watch the games you can see the truth behind the cliches.

Ghost is road kill deep in the D-zone, gets pushed out of the crease, beat behind the net, tries to avoid contact - that's what happens when you're a relatively weak 180 lb D-man. Unfortunately, at 26 he is what he is.

Farabee tries really hard, but although he's much stronger than say Ghost at 180 lbs, it's still 180 lbs and when you go to dirty areas, hard to hold your ice against 200+ lb opponents. When he fills out the next couple years he'll become a much better player, the way Lindblom has emerged but faster.

Frost is wonderful in space, like a faster (younger) Giroux, but he can't handle big centers and on the road, teams with centers like Barkov will match them against Frost every chance they get. He'll get stronger and better at using leverage and positioning over the next few years, but he hasn't had to deal with this issue night after night in the CHL.

TK and Lindblom shows what happens as players mature, TK is probably up to 190+ lbs, and has the same fire and speed, but now when he fights for a puck along the boards he can hold his own, and you can't bump him off his stride easily - the fireplug body filled out. Lindblom was full sized when he came up, but two years later he's become lb for lb one of the strongest players in the NHL, winning the majority of board battles and throwing bigger players off the puck.

Great summary.

Farabee flashed when he came up but in the last six games he has one point and is -3.

Ditto Myers who is putting up points but whose TOI has been falling.

It’s not easy to adjust to this shit.

TK is a great example of someone who has fought his way through owed largely to the fact that he had to clean up his game to see ice for the previous coaching staff.

 

[Prongo]

If you watch the games you can see the truth behind the cliches.

Ghost is road kill deep in the D-zone, gets pushed out of the crease, beat behind the net, tries to avoid contact - that's what happens when you're a relatively weak 180 lb D-man. Unfortunately, at 26 he is what he is.

Farabee tries really hard, but although he's much stronger than say Ghost at 180 lbs, it's still 180 lbs and when you go to dirty areas, hard to hold your ice against 200+ lb opponents. When he fills out the next couple years he'll become a much better player, the way Lindblom has emerged but faster.

Frost is wonderful in space, like a faster (younger) Giroux, but he can't handle big centers and on the road, teams with centers like Barkov will match them against Frost every chance they get. He'll get stronger and better at using leverage and positioning over the next few years, but he hasn't had to deal with this issue night after night in the CHL.

TK and Lindblom shows what happens as players mature, TK is probably up to 190+ lbs, and has the same fire and speed, but now when he fights for a puck along the boards he can hold his own, and you can't bump him off his stride easily - the fireplug body filled out. Lindblom was full sized when he came up, but two years later he's become lb for lb one of the strongest players in the NHL, winning the majority of board battles and throwing bigger players off the puck.

You always start with if you watch the games..... I do watch the games. Why is that your go to? Like you’re the only one that actually watches this team?

 

[dragonoffrost]

Ghost credited with zero giveaways. I guess the stat-keeper was taking a dump when Ghost skated into a trap in the neutral zone, turned it over, & Carolina turned it into an odd man advantage in the Flyers’ zone.

OH WHAT A RELIABLE STAT!

Every change of possession that doesn't include a save by a goalie should be a giveaway for the last guy to touch the puck and a takeaway for the guy who then gets the puck.

 

[JXC]

The Legion of Vroom.

Whoa

 

[deadhead]

Ghost isn't as bad as Ghosts Beer likes to suggest, or nearly as good as Striiker keeps shouting.

Yes, he doesn't get the best forwards on a regular basis at ES, but he gets them enough to be able to score at a reasonable rate.
And Braun may be on his downslope, but Sanheim played better with him than he has with Myers.

So the excuses don't hold water, Ghost has 2 ES points in 22 games, which is bad, but probably not sustainable (things even out).
He's is good at possession once he gets out of the nether regions of the D-zone, but a liability in the D-zone under pressure.
He can still skate, but he's not an intimidating presence with the puck anymore.

AV is using Ghost the way he should be used, sheltered at ES but getting equal time with Provorov (2:54 v 2:52) on the PP.
Ghost has 4 assists, Provorov has 4 goals and 5 assists on the PP.
That will also even out over time, Provorov has had positive puck luck (and last night a good screen by JVR).

 

[Curufinwe]

The turnovers by Sanheim/Myers for the 1st/3rd goals were rough ones.

 

[deadhead]

You always start with if you watch the games..... I do watch the games. Why is that your go to? Like you’re the only one that actually watches this team?

Then why deny the obvious?
I just pointed out numerous examples on the Flyers, which anyone who watched the last few years could see.
If I posted stats, someone would complain that I should watch the games.
So I posted examples from the games that I've watched.

Size isn't the be all and end all, but it matters a lot.
Couts at 5'10 180 with his lack of speed would be an AHL star despite his great instincts.

But you have to use it, JVR needs to play that Simmonds role in front of the net, with his big body and hands he can excel there, and screen goalies. But he's preferred to use that body to establish position 10-15' from the net and snipe.
Voracek has a big body but rarely makes good use of it. Though he and Hayes are excellent at using their bodies to protect the puck, they don't play as physical as they should.