Line Combos: '22-'23 Roster & Line Combos

[Debrincat93]

I think we're looking at:

Bert-Larks-Raymond
Vrana-Copp-Perron
Kubalik-Suter-Zadina
Sundqvist-Rasmussen-Veleno
Erne Berggren

Chiarot-Seider
Hronek-Maatta
Edvinsson-Oesterle/Lindstrom

Not a fan of that D group, but that forward core is much, much improved. I could see that third line in particular really good. That Chiarot contract is uuuugly.

you forgot Fabbri.

Bertuzzi - Larkin - Raymond
Vrana - Copp - Zadina
Kubalik - Fabbri - Perron
Erne - Rasmussen - Sundqvist

Chiarot - Seider
Edvinsson - Hronek
Maatta - Lindstrom/Oesterle
*I really think they should have targeted a vet righty for Edvinsson unless they think he's not ready yet.

but lets look at the PPs now
PP1: Bertuzzi, Larkin, Raymond, Seider, Vrana
PP2: Zadina, Perron, Copp, Kubalik, Hronek
*maybe you make it more balanced and swap Vrana and Kubalik around or Vrana and Zadina

im just pumped to see our PK get a boost with Chiarot.

yesterday was a day where players wanted to come here. this is exciting.

 

[Henkka]

So no-one is having Kasper in their line projections?

I could still see him getting the 3C spot out of camp and I think it wouldn't hurt his developement. Kasper already has got experience vs. Pros (Rögle and WC) so I don't see him far away from a roster spot in the NHL. But I'm sure getting top-line minutes in Rögle/AHL wouldn't hurt his developement too.

Think that extra center spot will go first to Veleno, after Suter is traded/walks as UFA.

Kasper should spent a year at Rögle.

Still having Larkin-Copp-Kasper-Veleno-Rasmussen as options for season 2023-24, it's pretty nice group.

 

[jkutswings]

you forgot Fabbri.

Bertuzzi - Larkin - Raymond
Vrana - Copp - Zadina
Kubalik - Fabbri - Perron
Erne - Rasmussen - Sundqvist

1) Fabbri is on LTIR for who knows how long.
2) Perron has zero chance of taking a back seat to Zadina for role or playing time.

 

[Macoun]

He should be in the AHL playing higher minutes. He's gotta get better at... something to become a legit 3rd line center, or he'll fizzle out as a run of the mill 4th liner by the time he's in his mid 20's. Jonatan Berggren proved in about every way, in the AHL, he's better than Veleno right now and a capable playmaker.

(Just my opinion.)

Zadina, though, quite frankly might be our odd man out as the season plays on. (Again, just my opinion.)

I understand what you’re saying but JB being in the NHL on the fourth line as a “playmaker” is absurd. Rather just go with another grinder in that role and let JB develop for one more year to get stronger. He’s not even on a NHL contract

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

With the number of games most of those players are available for it looks like a top 6 to me.

That could be said about most teams top6/9 though. Same with top4D/top6D.

Now we have 6 Legit 2nd liners (50pt.+). & very solid ~.5ppg L3 / Top9 (that's great production from L3), they have to bare down on D, b/c they're not built for it.

Kubalik-Suter-Berggren. Zadina swapped for either Kub or Berg has same effect.

Been ~6-7 yrs? since we've had a legit top6. I hope they don't dilute it w/a "digger" or "piano puller" on L1/L2.

I could understand if they did:

Kub-Suter-Ras
Berg-Veleno-Soderblom <------- 2 rooks on L4 should be ok with limited TOI/ 10m for now.
SunnyD -13th
Fabbri- LTIR 14th
Zadina - Tradebait / Salvage
---------
Erne -waive/trade/dump
Smith-waive/trade/GR
Pearson-GR

 

[izlez]

He should be in the AHL playing higher minutes. He's gotta get better at... something to become a legit 3rd line center, or he'll fizzle out as a run of the mill 4th liner by the time he's in his mid 20's. Jonatan Berggren proved in about every way, in the AHL, he's better than Veleno right now and a capable playmaker.

(Just my opinion.)

Zadina, though, quite frankly might be our odd man out as the season plays on. (Again, just my opinion.)

I actually like this idea of Veleno going down and it's something I hadn't thought about. In my opinion, I'm not liking the look of his trajectory playing in the NHL right now. Learning some more in a lower league could help him.

And suddenly with that in mind, I'm much more ok with Berggren, Soderblom, and Edvinsson also being in the AHL. A powerhouse of kids for 1 more year sounds like it could be a good move for the future.

I feel uncomfortable with where we're at right now, but I'm ok with waiting to see what line combos, AHL/NHL moves, and trades shake out from here. We're at a place where we can build a solid organization top to bottom, or kind of lose a bunch of guys for nothing.

 

[Hugh Mongusbig]

Veleno doesn't have the offensive chops to be more than a 4th line checking C as far as I can tell.
He needs to start modelling his game after a young Darren Helm. Become that Helm with hands we've always talked about.... He needs to concentrate on becoming a better/harder to play against defensive specialist/checker who can find a home on the 4th line. Who can finish a break away every now and again and kill penalties with speed and physicality. Young helm used to blow guys up... and kill off penalties all by himself. wish Veleno would learn to do the same.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

I actually like this idea of Veleno going down and it's something I hadn't thought about. In my opinion, I'm not liking the look of his trajectory playing in the NHL right now. Learning some more in a lower league could help him.

And suddenly with that in mind, I'm much more ok with Berggren, Soderblom, and Edvinsson also being in the AHL. A powerhouse of kids for 1 more year sounds like it could be a good move for the future.

I feel uncomfortable with where we're at right now, but I'm ok with waiting to see what line combos, AHL/NHL moves, and trades shake out from here. We're at a place where we can build a solid organization top to bottom, or kind of lose a bunch of guys for nothing.

I don't hate the idea of Veleno in GR for ~ 1/2 a season, along w/Soderblom (unless he kills it in camp), same for Berggren, but I'd rather he start in DET, feels like he's acclimated, produced & paid his dues.

Edvinsson can start in DET on 3rd pair (at worst), but seems poised for 2LD spot.

We can't just hit the button & integrate 6-7 young rooks in 1 season.

Trickle them in.

Now: +Ed, +Berg
~mid-season (+/- 20gms.): +Soderblom, +AlJo.
Veleno up now or by ~20gp mark, once logjam is cleared a bit.

 

[Mister Ed]

Bertuzzi - Larkin - Raymond
Vrana - Copp - Perron
Kubalik - Suter - Zadina / Fabbri when he's healthy
Rasmussen - Veleno - Sundqvist

Maatta - Seider
Chiarot - Hronek
Walman - Lindstrom

Husso
Ned

Extras - Kampfer, Pysyk, Oesterle, Erne

First callups fo FWD should be Soderblom, Berggren or Andreasson, for D it should be Edvinsson, McIsaac
And G, well I'm not sure, maybe Olkinuora.

All this being said, I do anticipate some players being waived (Erne, Smith), traded (Bertuzzi, Hronek) or forcing players to be traded (Edvinsson and Berggren could push Zadina and Walman out, for example).

 

[Ricelund]

I don't hate the idea of Veleno in GR for ~ 1/2 a season, along w/Soderblom (unless he kills it in camp), same for Berggren, but I'd rather he start in DET, feels like he's acclimated, produced & paid his dues.

Edvinsson can start in DET on 3rd pair (at worst), but seems poised for 2LD spot.

We can't just hit the button & integrate 6-7 young rooks in 1 season.

Trickle them in.

Now: +Ed, +Berg
~mid-season (+/- 20gms.): +Soderblom, +AlJo.
Veleno up now or by ~20gp mark, once logjam is cleared a bit.

I’ll be surprised if Soderblom and Johansson get more than a handful of games in the NHL this year.

 

[DamonDRW]

With the moves made yesterday we might find ourselves in mediocrity...

 

[Ricelund]

With the moves made yesterday we might find ourselves in mediocrity...

Why are people afraid of this team being competitive?

It’s bad to be mediocre when your stars are aging. The Wings stars are young. The stars will still be in their prime when these contracts are up.

It’s not like young teams just go from being terrible to winning the Cup.

Tampa, Colorado, St. Louis, etc. had plenty of “mediocre” years.

 

[Henkka]

With the moves made yesterday we might find ourselves in mediocrity...

Yeah, and then we rise up, as the kids will develop.

TANK years are over.

 

[DamonDRW]

Why are people afraid of this team being competitive?

It’s bad to be mediocre when your stars are aging. The Wings stars are young. The stars will still be in their prime when these contracts are up.

It’s not like young teams just go from being terrible to winning the Cup.

Tampa, Colorado, St. Louis, etc. had plenty of “mediocre” years.

The biggest concern is that we still don't have a game breaking talent in the pipeline and already started to fill up the roster with support players like Copp, Perron, Chariot, etc.

We are not winning the cup in 08 without Lidstrom, Datsyuk and Zetterberg. This year Avs are not winning without Makar, Rantanen and MacKinnon. Kucherov, Point, and Hedman in TB.

We don't have comparable except for maybe Seider. And we are not drafting high anymore. That is not a good receipt for success.

Yeah, and then we rise up, as the kids will develop.

TANK years are over.

Yes. Wildcard battles and first round exits are ahead.

 

[lhsgolf19]

The biggest concern is that we still don't have a game breaking talent in the pipeline and already started to fill up the roster with support players like Copp, Perron, Chariot, etc.

We are not winning the cup in 08 without Lidstrom, Datsyuk and Zetterberg. This year Avs are not winning without Makar, Rantanen and MacKinnon. Kucherov, Point, and Hedman in TB.

We don't have comparable except for maybe Seider. And we are not drafting high anymore. That is not a good receipt for success.


Yes. Wildcard battles and first round exits are ahead.

Outside of MacKinnon, Rantanen was 10th Overall... Makar was 4th Overall lol... Kucherov 2nd Round, Point 3rd... come on man

Didn't we draft, Seider, Raymond, Edvinsson, Kasper, etc in the top 10?... Just chill

 

[Henkka]

Some look on special teams:

PK icetimes:
1. Sam Gagner, 2:22 <<--- Copp
2. Sundqvist, 1:53 (top minutes at Blues PK)
-----------------
3. Pius Suter, 1:42
4. Namestnikov, 1:37 <<--- Rasmussen 1:14
5. Stephens, 1:24
---------------------
6. Bertuzzi, 0:44
7. Larkin, 0:30

- Perron was not PK guy
- Kubalik was not PK guy

Forward PK pairs should be
1. Copp - Sundqvist
2. Suter - Rasmussen
3. Larkin - Bertuzzi

Defencemen:
1. Staal, 2:13 <<--- Chiarot 3:11 Top PK guy at Montreal
2. DeKeyser, 2:13 <<--- Määttä 1:47 secondary PK guy at LAK
3. Seider, 1:53
4. Hronek, 1:35 <<--- Lindström
5. Lindström, 1:15

Think Chiarot - Seider will be 1st PK pair and Lindström should take a special role from Hronek.

Chiarot - Seider
Määttä - Lindström
(Edvinsson - Hronek)


So ALL NEW PK:

1st unit
Copp - Sundqvist
Chiarot - Seider

2nd unit
Suter - Rasmussen
Määttä - Lindström

3rd forward pair
Larkin - Bertuzzi

 

[DamonDRW]

Outside of MacKinnon, Rantanen was 10th Overall... Makar was 4th Overall lol... Kucherov 2nd Round, Point 3rd... come on man

Didn't we draft, Seider, Raymond, Edvinsson, Kasper, etc in the top 10?... Just chill

It is not about in which round they were selected, they were available when those teams started to load their rosters. We have no comparables now.

 

[lhsgolf19]

It is not about in which round they were selected, they were available when those teams started to load their rosters. We have no comparables now.

How do you know? lol... Seider was Calder Winner, Raymond was basically a finalist... We haven't seen anyone else ha

 

[Henkka]

Outside of MacKinnon, Rantanen was 10th Overall... Makar was 4th Overall lol... Kucherov 2nd Round, Point 3rd... come on man

Didn't we draft, Seider, Raymond, Edvinsson, Kasper, etc in the top 10?... Just chill

Seider and Raymond pretty much are game-breaking talent. Seider will break bones, and turn playoff series.

 

[izlez]

It is not about in which round they were selected, they were available when those teams started to load their rosters. We have no comparables now.

Those are 2 specific examples that we are definitely not comparable to. What about the 2019 Blues? What about the 2021 Canadiens, 2020 Stars, 2019 Bruins, 2018 Golden Knights, 2017 Predators, or 2016 Sharks that were right on the cusp? Is there no path forward to being comparable to them? And maybe winning 2 extra games to win the cup?

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Some look on special teams:

PK icetimes:
1. Sam Gagner, 2:22 <<--- Copp
2. Sundqvist, 1:53 (top minutes at Blues PK)
-----------------
3. Pius Suter, 1:42
4. Namestnikov, 1:37 <<--- Rasmussen 1:14
5. Stephens, 1:24
---------------------
6. Bertuzzi, 0:44
7. Larkin, 0:30

- Perron was not PK guy
- Kubalik was not PK guy

Forward PK pairs should be
1. Copp - Sundqvist
2. Suter - Rasmussen
3. Larkin - Bertuzzi

Defencemen:
1. Staal, 2:13 <<--- Chiarot 3:11 Top PK guy at Montreal
2. DeKeyser, 2:13 <<--- Määttä 1:47 secondary PK guy at LAK
3. Seider, 1:53
4. Hronek, 1:35 <<--- Lindström
5. Lindström, 1:15

Think Chiarot - Seider will be 1st PK pair and Lindström should take a special role from Hronek.

Chiarot - Seider
Määttä - Lindström
(Edvinsson - Hronek)


So ALL NEW PK:

1st unit
Copp - Sundqvist
Chiarot - Seider

2nd unit
Suter - Rasmussen
Määttä - Lindström

3rd forward pair
Larkin - Bertuzzi

I'd like to save Larkin for 5on5 / PP1. Shot blocking point blanks from 10-30ft away are just asking for injury. ...unless we're trailing 1g after the 1st period & need to even it up. Veleno can handle 3rd PK F-pairing.

Also wanna keep Ed-Hronek pair for 5on5 & PP2. (No PK for either)

Ideally Bert off the PK to save him for 5on5/PP1...maybe try Zadina on 3rd pair w/Veleno...(i know, i know).

 

[archimet]

Outside of MacKinnon, Rantanen was 10th Overall... Makar was 4th Overall lol... Kucherov 2nd Round, Point 3rd... come on man

Didn't we draft, Seider, Raymond, Edvinsson, Kasper, etc in the top 10?... Just chill

Agreed. People should relax.

Like you said, we have a core of potential star players. But don't forget Cossa. What will Seider, Raymond, Edvinsson, Kasper, and Cossa look like in 5 years? Probably at least a couple real stars in that group. Larkin and others will be the solid veterans. Berggren, Soderbloom, Wallinder, Mazur, and so many others have a real chance to become above-average complementary players. Who knows? Maybe Zadina, Veleno, or Lindstrom take the challenge and really thrive now that they have stiff competition for their positions. We're on the right track.

We also added player capital throughout the lineup. If we're not a playoff team in any of the next couple years, we'll pick up more picks, as the contracts of UFAs we added yesterday expire. Picks we otherwise wouldn't have had. We added six NHL players (including Pysyk) without subtracting any players. We have more trade capital than we did 48 hours ago which will lead to more picks and help us upgrade our roster through future trades. When it makes sense, we can use our increased capital and prospect pipeline to grab potential stars, who we can re-sign at the next few tradelines. The truth is, because of the past couple of days the Wings have more options to improve our team through future trades and UFA signings than we did when the week began.

The last couple days are a turning point in the rebuild. Now we're a competitive team that will be difficult to play against. It's the beginning phase of developing a culture of winning. By the time our top prospects reach 24, 25, 26 years old, it's easy to imagine us being a perennial contender without having to find more elite players only through the top of the draft. It all comes back to what will Sieder, Raymond, Cossa, Edvinsson, Kasper, or a surprise from rounds 2-7 (Wallinder?) look like in five years. Are they stars? And... whether we can further upgrade select positions through trades now that we have more player capital. I like our chances.

 

[KJoe88]

The biggest concern is that we still don't have a game breaking talent in the pipeline and already started to fill up the roster with support players like Copp, Perron, Chariot, etc.

We are not winning the cup in 08 without Lidstrom, Datsyuk and Zetterberg. This year Avs are not winning without Makar, Rantanen and MacKinnon. Kucherov, Point, and Hedman in TB.

We don't have comparable except for maybe Seider. And we are not drafting high anymore. That is not a good receipt for success.


Yes. Wildcard battles and first round exits are ahead.

This team will be built like the Blues or Bruins. Possibly similar to the Kings.

There’s not wrong with that.

 

[DamonDRW]

Well, guys, maybe you're right and there is nothing wrong being just like Bruins. I'm just living a bit in the past when we were really strong at all positions and were real cup favorites.

With the roster built like now we have to have luck on our side to win a series in the playoffs. With game breaking talent back in the day we had to have bad luck to lose the series. This is major difference for me.

 

[jkutswings]

Outside of MacKinnon, Rantanen was 10th Overall... Makar was 4th Overall lol... Kucherov 2nd Round, Point 3rd... come on man

Didn't we draft, Seider, Raymond, Edvinsson, Kasper, etc in the top 10?... Just chill

And Detroit still has the ability to make trades and cap room to add more guys.

This summer is to go from cellar dweller to bubble team. The next 2-3 years will be a combination of growth of existing young players and further signings/trades to go from bubble team to true contender.