GDT: 2024 NHL Trade Deadline

[Muffin]

The D core is too soft to win without Manson. He provides something nobody else does.

 

[The Abusement Park]

The D core is too soft to win without Manson. He provides something nobody else does.

Manson can be replaced at the TDL pretty easily if he gets moved.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

If he's going to LTIR the Avs can also just vegas the contract and then be able to use that cap space.

True. But moving it would be more ideal because then we're not forced into LTIR cap space every year. It's easier at the deadline to make moves when you're accruing cap space during the year versus LTIR where it becomes full $ value.


But, either option is certainly manageable and wouldn't really be an issue.

 

[Gatorbait19]

Manson can be replaced at the TDL pretty easily if he gets moved.

The biggest mistake we’ve made in the last 3 years is not giving Naz the money we gave to Manson (although in fairness, we signed Manson early in free agency when it looked like we had no chance at re-signing Naz).

Manson was great for us during the Cup run, but what he brings is able to be replaced (primarily at the TDL as you said). We can’t fall into the same trap and keep Manson over other, more integral parts. I’m leery of re-signing Walker for the exact same reason (I want to of course, but it could hinder/hurt us the exact same way Manson’s deal did).

 

[shadow1]

I don't want to put the cart in front of the horse, but I think we could see Ross Colton be a cap casualty at some point.

I think the Avalanche will probably get (2) playoff runs out of him, and then move him to afford Mikko Rantanen's extension, with Calum Ritchie (hopefully) taking over that 3C role on his ELC.

I agree I think Manson goes first though, if push comes to shove. He's older, probably easier to replace, and is having a reasonably decent season after last year's train wreck. This coming off-season would be the time to sell, but it's only necessary if a) Landeskog is healthy (or) b) Colorado is hell bent on re-signing Walker. Otherwise the Avalanche probably won't have to do a lot of major roster surgery this off-season.

 

[Bender]

The biggest mistake we’ve made in the last 3 years is not giving Naz the money we gave to Manson (although in fairness, we signed Manson early in free agency when it looked like we had no chance at re-signing Naz).

Manson was great for us during the Cup run, but what he brings is able to be replaced (primarily at the TDL as you said). We can’t fall into the same trap and keep Manson over other, more integral parts. I’m leery of re-signing Walker for the exact same reason (I want to of course, but it could hinder/hurt us the exact same way Manson’s deal did).

This just needs to end. Why do I keep reading stuff like this ? The problem with Kadri was never going to be Years 1,2 or 3 it was always going to be Years 4,5,6 & 7.

When Kadri starts his 4th year with the Flames, he'll be 35 years old and will STILL have another 3 years on his deal at $7M per year. It was never about the player or how good of a fit he was on this team - it was always about his age and the term of the contract. The Avs learned their lesson from the Iginla deal.

Sure, there's a chance he's Joe Pavelski and like the energizer bunny, just keeps going and going but odds are that he ends like Blake Wheeler and when he falls off a cliff, it's not going to be pretty. When is that going to happen? No idea but the Avs clearly didn't want to tie up that kind of $$$ for that kind of term and I can't say I blame them.

 

[GeoRox89]

This just needs to end. Why do I keep reading stuff like this ? The problem with Kadri was never going to be Years 1,2 or 3 it was always going to be Years 4,5,6 & 7.

When Kadri starts his 4th year with the Flames, he'll be 35 years old and will STILL have another 3 years on his deal at $7M per year. It was never about the player or how good of a fit he was on this team - it was always about his age and the term of the contract. The Avs learned their lesson from the Iginla deal.

Sure, there's a chance he's Joe Pavelski and like the energizer bunny, just keeps going and going but odds are that he ends like Blake Wheeler and when he falls off a cliff, it's not going to be pretty. When is that going to happen? No idea but the Avs clearly didn't want to tie up that kind of $$$ for that kind of term and I can't say I blame them.

This is all completely true. There is a high probability that even though that contract will turn ugly in 3 years from now this team will be so riddled with bad contracts and moving into the territory Tampa is in now (if not worse) that it wouldn’t have been particularly impactful for Naz to have been another bad contract by then anyways

 

[S E P H]

Can we trade Manson+ for Jarvis

I am not a fan of Jarvis and R. Thomas-type players during drafts and I don't think I will ever be, but he's developed very nicely for them and is on a cheap contract. You're talking about Manson+Richite+1st/2nd for Jarvis.

 

[Gatorbait19]

This just needs to end. Why do I keep reading stuff like this ? The problem with Kadri was never going to be Years 1,2 or 3 it was always going to be Years 4,5,6 & 7.

When Kadri starts his 4th year with the Flames, he'll be 35 years old and will STILL have another 3 years on his deal at $7M per year. It was never about the player or how good of a fit he was on this team - it was always about his age and the term of the contract. The Avs learned their lesson from the Iginla deal.

Sure, there's a chance he's Joe Pavelski and like the energizer bunny, just keeps going and going but odds are that he ends like Blake Wheeler and when he falls off a cliff, it's not going to be pretty. When is that going to happen? No idea but the Avs clearly didn't want to tie up that kind of $$$ for that kind of term and I can't say I blame them.

My post was really only directed to Manson and the ability to replace what he brings. And I only brought Naz up to demonstrate the point that we shouldn’t pay guys whose skills can easily be replaced instead of guys whose skills cannot be.

With that said, if I remember correctly, as FA in 2022 went on, the probability of us re-signing Naz increased significantly (to the point where it looked like that was going to happen). So we were probably ok giving Naz 6-7 years as long as the $$ was low enough (which I think undercuts your argument about years 4-7).

Bringing this full circle though, I think it’s pretty obvious that - as of right now (2 years into these deals and in our best/prime cup window) - it was a big mistake to pay Manson over Kadri. That could change in 2+ years if Kadri’s deal becomes a boat anchor. But the Kadri part really is irrelevant as that ship has sailed. What is relevant, is the fact that we should not continue paying Manson and move him this offseason, as we can replace what he brings moving forward.

 

[hockeyfish]

Manson won't have much value on the trade market this summer. Other teams can find comparabe players to him on the free agent market.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

My post was really only directed to Manson and the ability to replace what he brings. And I only brought Naz up to demonstrate the point that we shouldn’t pay guys whose skills can easily be replaced instead of guys whose skills cannot be.

With that said, if I remember correctly, as FA in 2022 went on, the probability of us re-signing Naz increased significantly (to the point where it looked like that was going to happen). So we were probably ok giving Naz 6-7 years as long as the $$ was low enough (which I think undercuts your argument about years 4-7).

Bringing this full circle though, I think it’s pretty obvious that - as of right now (2 years into these deals and in our best/prime cup window) - it was a big mistake to pay Manson over Kadri. That could change in 2+ years if Kadri’s deal becomes a boat anchor. But the Kadri part really is irrelevant as that ship has sailed. What is relevant, is the fact that we should not continue paying Manson and move him this offseason, as we can replace what he brings moving forward.

Was signing Manson instead of Kadri really a mistake though? Signing Kadri would have helped us a lot more last season but you would have needed to spend assets to get somebody like Manson at the TDL (most likely a 1st+). This season is a wash as we have fixed the problem. Furthermore the Kadri contract will eventually be an anchor..not sure when though. We are not facing that issue anymore. It looks like sacrificing (using this term loosely) last season now means more kicks at the can.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Was signing Manson instead of Kadri really a mistake though? Signing Kadri would have helped us a lot more last season but you would have needed to spend assets to get somebody like Manson at the TDL (most likely a 1st+). This season is a wash as we have fixed the problem. Furthermore the Kadri contract will eventually be an anchor..not sure when though. We are not facing that issue anymore. It looks like sacrificing last season now means more kicks at the can.

Depends on the TDL, but there’s plenty of manson types that don’t go for 1sts.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Depends on the TDL, but there’s plenty of manson types that don’t go for 1sts.

I was going by what the Avs paid for him and we know how hard it is for them to get rid of those 1st Rd picks so I would sill say "most likely". But I agree it is certainly possible. Tanev went this season less than that.

 

[Bender]

This is all completely true. There is a high probability that even though that contract will turn ugly in 3 years from now this team will be so riddled with bad contracts and moving into the territory Tampa is in now (if not worse) that it wouldn’t have been particularly impactful for Naz to have been another bad contract by then anyways

We also can't really choose to use hindsight and see Naz doing well in Calgary and suggest that we should have known with 100% certainty that he was always going to still be an impactful player in Years 1 and 2.

There was a legitimate risk that after years of being underpaid at $4.5M and a career year with 84 points that he was going to be maybe not as impactful after getting paid. I really believe that all that being considered, the Avs made the right call there.

 

[Pokecheque]

Whether or not to re-sign Kadri is irrelevant at this point. Frankly I'd have been fine with giving him a long-term deal. We all know that deal will age badly, but so will the deals for MacKinnon, and likely Makar's next one, and if they choose to keep him, Rantanen. The one for Landeskog is ALREADY aging poorly.

I'll also admit that Manson is actually living up to the contract...when he's healthy. That's the problem. When he tries to play through an injury, that's when he's horribly ineffective. When he's able to skate at full speed and throw his body around, that's when he's at his best. Sadly we've only seen a little of that in the past season-plus.

What cannot be disputed is that going into the season hoping Newhook would figure it out and having Compher as Plan B was predestined for failure. That's where MacFarland f***ed up, they all knew that wasn't going to work and they did it anyway. The coaches most certainly knew Newhook wasn't gonna cut it at center on ANY line.

 

[Balthazar]

Whether or not to re-sign Kadri is irrelevant at this point. Frankly I'd have been fine with giving him a long-term deal. We all know that deal will age badly, but so will the deals for MacKinnon, and likely Makar's next one, and if they choose to keep him, Rantanen. The one for Landeskog is ALREADY aging poorly.

What sucks with Landy is we knew the first couple of years would be fine but the last 3-4 would be bad...and he missed 2.5 of the first 3 years.

He signed 7 years and missed all the good years, there's only the bad ones left. Best we can hope for at this point is PP specialist with 3rd line level winger.

As for Mack, I thought his contract would age poorly but I'm not so sure anymore. He's elite and in spectacular physical condition, he's literally the best player in franchise history...and elite players tend to age well.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Whether or not to re-sign Kadri is irrelevant at this point. Frankly I'd have been fine with giving him a long-term deal. We all know that deal will age badly, but so will the deals for MacKinnon, and likely Makar's next one, and if they choose to keep him, Rantanen. The one for Landeskog is ALREADY aging poorly.

I'll also admit that Manson is actually living up to the contract...when he's healthy. That's the problem. When he tries to play through an injury, that's when he's horribly ineffective. When he's able to skate at full speed and throw his body around, that's when he's at his best. Sadly we've only seen a little of that in the past season-plus.

What cannot be disputed is that going into the season hoping Newhook would figure it out and having Compher as Plan B was predestined for failure. That's where MacFarland f***ed up, they all knew that wasn't going to work and they did it anyway. The coaches most certainly knew Newhook wasn't gonna cut it at center on ANY line.

And it looks like they learned from that mistake by getting Mitts so they don't repeat that mistake with Ritchie. I am ok with my Gm making a mistake as long as he learns from it.

 

[avsfan2189]

it's a bad look but moving on from colton and wood's salarys asap would be wonderful. but i get why they wont do it. There'd be no point in signing those long deals just to trade them. I really want us to keep drouin but landy coming back complicates things.

leks i would want to keep too but id trade him over manson possibly due to a higher return.

then you could keep drouin at lower salary per se. LOC is gone after next year too he's due for a good bump

drouin - mack - rants
landy - mitts - nuke
wood - ritchie- kovalenko
+ 4th line

toews - makar
girard - walker
malinski/jones - manson (malinski learning to play LD lol)

 

[Pokecheque]

As for Mack, I thought his contract would age poorly but I'm not so sure anymore. He's elite and in spectacular physical condition, he's literally the best player in franchise history...and elite players tend to age well.

Thing is, his game is predicated on his elite power and speed as much as it is his skill, once he loses even a step or can't quite bulldoze his way around the ice, his effectiveness will be compromised in a huge way. He's not a cerebral player like Crosby or Sakic, so I'm a tad less optimistic he will make adjustments as Father Time advances.

Regardless I'm just gonna try and enjoy this window however long it lasts. Even after the rebuild is over it's highly unlikely we'll ever a see a talent like Nathan MacKinnon ever again.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Nobody if Landy comes back. Unless we trade Mikko and one of G/Manson

Manson, Walker and G are a luxury.. adding a 5th top four D is way easier at the TDL than a 2C that's for sure.

One or even two of them will have to go. My bet is they invest in Walker personally.

I also think unless Mikko wins the Con, or Landy doesn't return you have to explore trading him. It's just the hard decisions the cap forces.

 

[Zandar]

Manson won't have much value on the trade market this summer. Other teams can find comparabe players to him on the free agent market.

I would think two time Stanley Cup Champion Ds would have great value to a lot of teams in the trade market…

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

The Avs are definitely gonna have some tough decisions to make this summer though, especially if Landy does come back.


If Mittelstadt signs for $6.5M(Which seems reasonable). They're basically at ~$82.5M with this roster:


Lehky - Mack - Mikko
Landy - Mitts - Nuke
Wood - Colton - ???
??? - ??? - LOC

Toews - Makar
Girard - Manson
??? - ???

George
???


$5M in cap space to fill out 6 roster spots just to field the bare minimum. 6 guys on $800k league minimum deals would barely fit at $4.8M. But our ELC guys aren't going to be league minimum deals either. Kovalenko is at $900k, Ritchie will almost certainly be $950k. Behrens if he signs will be for a max ELC of like $975k. Malinski next year is $850k. Annunen as the backup is gonna be close to $1M, maybe even slightly higher.

They're gonna have to move at least one person. Whether it's Manson, or a winger. I dont think they move Colton this summer but he could be a casualty next summer if Ritchie makes the jump and they have him take over 3C.


Personally, I really do think moving Lehkonen for a nice haul of futures, and re-signing Drouin for like ~$2.5-3M would be a smart move. Then if you can re-sign Walker for ~$3-3.5M you do that and send Manson out as well. Between those two moves you create $2.5-3.5M in space which gives you the wiggle room to fit everything else in.

 

[Balthazar]

Even after the rebuild is over it's highly unlikely we'll ever a see a talent like Nathan MacKinnon ever again.

We have the second best forward in hockey, the best defenseman in hockey and a winger that is currently sitting at #7 in points leaguewide.

All of them in their prime. Our generation will never see something like that again, that's for sure.

 

[Pokecheque]

I would think two time Stanley Cup Champion Ds would have great value to a lot of teams in the trade market…

Oh, I dunno, a big, physical RHD who plays mostly in a top-four role will find a taker somewhere.

 

[Tommy Shelby]

Oh, I dunno, a big, physical RHD who plays mostly in a top-four role will find a taker somewhere.

He will fetch a fine price, and then never play as well as he did in our Jersey. A tale as old as time