Line Combos: 2023-24 too early line combos

[bert]

I think, based on what I have read, the lady went willingly to the first player’s room and expected sex. I don’t think that player will necessarily be charged unless he did something illegal after that. Some of the other players might be charged with something but it is unclear what that will be.

5 players are getting charged the first one is going to get it the worst. We all know who that is.

I am pretty confident Batherson is safe here but that's not 100 percent. Reading the tea leaves suggest that McLeod and his new contract is also likely in the clear. Through process of elimination its not overly difficult to figure out the most likely who the 5 are.

For the lineup I'd probably go with this if they find a way. I think there's a chance they sign Pinto and expect someone to start on the ir. But I don't know who that is so I'm just going to post this as my game 1 lineup.

Giroux- Stutzle - Tarasenko
Tkachuk - Norris - Batherson
Kubalik - Pinto - Joseph
Smejkal - Kastelik - MacEwen

Sanderson - Zub
Chabot - Chychrun
Brannstrom - Hamonic

Korpisalo
Forsberg

That's a playoff team to me.

 

[bert]

If we get Karlsson, a potential boon could be that Sanderson has to settle for a lower contract as he will not be able to supplant EK for the points role.

However, when it comes to Chabot, there is no reason for him to keep Sanderson down. It would hurt the team if Chabot were given those minutes over Sanderson, and perhaps even Chychrun.

Additionally, having a Karlsson-Chychrun power play would be incredible. Karlsson is one of the best players at passing and getting the puck on net, while Chychrun is one of the best shooters and one-timers from the point. With Tkachuk tipping shots and Stutzle dangling, it would be nuts.

Lastly, what knowledge would Chabot pass on to Sanderson, Chychrun, Brannstrom, or Kleven? Nothing.

You're still going on about this hahahaha

 

[JD1]

Pretty sure Branny has some value, may not be alot but better getting a 2nd/3rd rounder than nothing. I don't know much about Laughton but not sure it is a good idea in general to trade Branny and Joseph at low value right now, they can both be useful in the lineup..

Why do people think Brannstrom has low value? He's still a developing player that had solid possession metrics and has a demonstrated ability to step in to top 4 minutes and give you PP and PK time.

He's on a 2M contract and still under control for another season

 

[Micklebot]

Why do people think Brannstrom has low value? He's still a developing player that had solid possession metrics and has a demonstrated ability to step in to top 4 minutes and give you PP and PK time.

He's on a 2M contract and still under control for another season

Well, one way to gauge how much value a player might have, particularly one that was arbitration and offersheet eligible, is to look at the contract they were able to command, a 1 yr 2 mil deal suggests he might not have had much leverage in negotiations,

Small Dmen aren't en-vogue around the league at the moment, Idk what his value would be, but it's probably less I'd like. Idk, maybe a 2nd?

 

[JD1]

Well, one way to gauge how much value a player might have, particularly one that was arbitration and offersheet eligible, is to look at the contract they were able to command, a 1 yr 2 mil deal suggests he might not have had much leverage in negotiations,

Small Dmen aren't en-vogue around the league at the moment, Idk what his value would be, but it's probably less I'd like. Idk, maybe a 2nd?

I kinda disagree with that. There were guys here talking about giving him a deal in the low 1s or maybe a 2 year deal at 1.5

I think the deal he got reflects the team valuing him. First off, they got that deal done early. Secondly you're right he had limited leverage and the team could have hard balled him quite a bit lower. I'm not an expert on all the contract mechanics but he was 1.3 AAV last year and something rings a bell about only needing to be 15% above that.

 

[Micklebot]

I kinda disagree with that. There were guys here talking about giving him a deal in the low 1s or maybe a 2 year deal at 1.5

I think the deal he got reflects the team valuing him. First off, they got that deal done early. Secondly you're right he had limited leverage and the team could have hard balled him quite a bit lower. I'm not an expert on all the contract mechanics but he was 1.3 AAV last year and something rings a bell about only needing to be 15% above that.

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest the team doesn't value him, just trying to gauge how valuable the player really is when it comes to shopping him around the league. Take a look at other players getting 2 mil around the league, how many of them are worth more than a 2nd rd pick in a trade? I don't think Brannstrom is on a particularly team friendly deal, not to say it's a bad deal, just that it isn't some sort of steal where it would add significant value,

I mean, you look at a guy like Tyson Yost, just signed a 1 year deal with Buffalo at 2 mil after not being qualified. Was traded for Sturm a year earlier, not a lot of value imo, not a bad player, but he's not going to return a lot.

 

[Agent Zub]

You're still going on about this hahahaha

Would be funny if it happens considering how close minded some are about it.

Wonder how fast heads would spin to try and rationalize.

Also I only think it's a possibility not a certainty, and I make logical arguments for why it is a possibility and beneficial for the club.

No one actually tries to refute them though.

Karlsson is injury prone? So what Chabot is more injury prone.

Chabot is younger? So what they have roughly same contract length and it is more likely Karlsson re-signs (for cheap) than we pay Chabot another 8 mill + to be our 3rd best LD for a team that is already expensive.

Karlsson is too expensive? Chabot has never played to a 8 million level, if Karlsson only plays to a 8 million level it would be underperforming for him. Big difference.

 

[SensFactor]

- trade Brannstrom & replace him with Kleven they save approx. $1 mil
- trade Joseph & replace him with Sokolov they save approx. $2 mil
- trade DBC & replace him with Tarasenko they save approx. $2 mil

Tarasenko ($5 mil) will cost them nothing to sign since he is a UFA & whoever they get back for DeBrincat, Joseph or Brannstrom has to fit their cap. If Kubalik is the return for DBC he is under $3 mil & along with Kleven & Sokolov add up to approx. $5 mil. Approx. $12 mil out & $10 mil in & our team gets bigger, tougher & harder to play against & adds some skill & scoring power.

Tkachuk $8 - Stutzle $8.5 - Giroux $6.5
Tarasenko $5 - Norris $8 - Batherson $5
Kubalik $2.5 - Pinto $2.5 - Sokolov $1
Smejkal $.75 - Kastelic $.75 - Imama $.75/Kelly $.75 = $50 mil approx.

Chabot $8 - Zub $4.5
Sanderson $1 - Chychrun $4.5
Kleven $1 - Hamonic $1/JBD $1 = $21 mil approx.

Korpisalo $4 - Forsberg $3 + Dead Cap $5 = $12 approx.

Forwards $50 + Defence $21 + Goalies & Deadcap $12 = $83mil approx. - Murray buyout approx. $1 mil= $82 mil

I have crookshank instead of Kelly or Imama but rest looks good

 

[bert]

Would be funny if it happens considering how close minded some are about it.

Wonder how fast heads would spin to try and rationalize.

Also I only think it's a possibility not a certainty, and I make logical arguments for why it is a possibility and beneficial for the club.

No one actually tries to refute them though.

Karlsson is injury prone? So what Chabot is more injury prone.

Chabot is younger? So what they have roughly same contract length and it is more likely Karlsson re-signs (for cheap) than we pay Chabot another 8 mill + to be our 3rd best LD for a team that is already expensive.

Karlsson is too expensive? Chabot has never played to a 8 million level, if Karlsson only plays to a 8 million level it would be underperforming for him. Big difference.

Most posters refute it because it makes no sense. You've literally been in thousands of pages of texts arguing about it. What are you talking about. You're constantly hijacking threads with some strange obsession about him.

The sens are over the cap they literally need to cut salary. They aren't adding his contract there is no room and his age doesn't fit into the core of the team. They also don't have the assets. Get over it.

 

[Agent Zub]

They're over the cap. They aren't adding his salary and his age doesn't fit into the core of the team. They also don't have the assets. Get over it.

So I guess we should trade away Giroux and Tarasenko because they don't fit into the core of the team.

Chabot is the asset + we have tons of secondary prospects, retention is certain, and cap space would be easy to make.

Try to be more open minded. The world opens up.

 

[bert]

So I guess we should trade away Giroux and Tarasenko because they don't fit into the core of the team.

Chabot is the asset + we have tons of secondary prospects, retention is certain, and cap space would be easy to make.

Try to be more open minded. The world opens up.

They signed both those players as ufas. Not remotely the same.

The sens do not have a deep prospect pool at all. Time to move on man. He's gonna be a penguin will you get closure then? Probably not. Maybe he comes back as a ufa like Giroux when his contract is done.

There is a difference between being 'open minded' aka obsessed than using critical analysis.

 

[Agent Zub]

They signed both those players as ufas. Not remotely the same.

There is a difference between being 'open minded' aka obsessed than using critical analysis.

If you want to win a cup it's more about cap allocation and the quality on the roster than about distinction between signing or trading.

Karlsson at 8 mill >>>> Chabot at 8 mill, this year, next year, and even the year after. I'm not sure you realize the massive gap in talent between the two.

And no you can't even fathom that it is possible. When it clearly is possible.

I'm not saying its going to happen, I'm saying why it makes sense and your reasoning of no cap space or doesn't fit in the core aren't good arguments.

You realize quality veterans who are proven playoff performers are good for young competitive players and to win the cup?

As it is Chabot is our veteran D. What kind of things is he going to teach Sanderson or Chych? They have to teach him stuff and shelter him. All for a cool 8 million.

 

[armani]

If you want to win a cup it's more about cap allocation and the quality on the roster than about distinction between signing or trading.

Karlsson at 8 mill >>>> Chabot at 8 mill, this year, next year, and even the year after. I'm not sure you realize the massive gap in talent between the two.

And no you can't even fathom that it is possible. When it clearly is possible.

I'm not saying its going to happen, I'm saying why it makes sense and your reasoning of no cap space or doesn't fit in the core aren't good arguments.

Very true, and that's the unfortunate part for your argument. I don't know if Grier can justify paying $14M in the next 4 years for EK65 to play for another team. I would also take EK65 over Chabot any day, the best talent we have ever had, but San Jose will not trade him with that much retention, unless the offer is absolutely insane.

Ottawa doesn't have the depth to make such a move, so the best bet for EK65 to Ottawa will likely be near or at the end of his current deal. Hope he can stay healthy and productive, I think asking him to replicate last season for the next few is very hard to justify as age/mileage is a thing for athletes.

 

[Agent Zub]

Very true, and that's the unfortunate part for your argument. I don't know if Grier can justify paying $14M in the next 4 years for EK65 to play for another team. I would also take EK65 over Chabot any day, the best talent we have ever had, but San Jose will not trade him with that much retention, unless the offer is absolutely insane.

Ottawa doesn't have the depth to make such a move, so the best bet for EK65 to Ottawa will likely be near or at the end of his current deal. Hope he can stay healthy and productive, I think asking him to replicate last season for the next few is very hard to justify as age/mileage is a thing for athletes.

Grier has already said he will retain to 9 mill, like that is the default. He full well knows no one came make room for 11 mill.

Getting it down from 9 mill to 8 mill is just about sweetening the pot, and even if not, Karlsson at 9 mill is still much better than Chabot at 8 mill.

And Hasso has like 10 billion net worth, that 4 mill difference is probably like a week or two of income. It's Hasso's money not Grier's so if it makes sense for SJ, I think they will retain even lower than 9 mill.

Maybe Hasso's pride gets in the way or Grier's timidness, but the amount is peanuts especially since SJ doesn't need the cap space, so why not trade it for more assets.

 

[Cosmix]

5 players are getting charged the first one is going to get it the worst. We all know who that is.

I am pretty confident Batherson is safe here but that's not 100 percent. Reading the tea leaves suggest that McLeod and his new contract is also likely in the clear. Through process of elimination its not overly difficult to figure out the most likely who the 5 are.

For the lineup I'd probably go with this if they find a way. I think there's a chance they sign Pinto and expect someone to start on the ir. But I don't know who that is so I'm just going to post this as my game 1 lineup.

Giroux- Stutzle - Tarasenko
Tkachuk - Norris - Batherson
Kubalik - Pinto - Joseph
Smejkal - Kastelik - MacEwen

Sanderson - Zub
Chabot - Chychrun
Brannstrom - Hamonic

Korpisalo
Forsberg

That's a playoff team to me.

I generally agree with this as the opening night roster (except Kelly might replace Smejkal) barring any unforeseen and unknown injuries; however, I think Tkachuk might be 1LW, Giroux 2RW, Kubalik 2LW, Batherson 3RW & Joseph 3LW (if he is still on the team) depending on which players find chemistry in the preseason.

 

[Sun God Nika]

I don’t see anyway Karlsson comes here.

I mean you could trade Chabot but you would still have to send Joseph back on top of that and you would still need like 700k in retention. Then you have to factor in if San Jose is interested in Chabot or if it’s enough for them for a guy who just won the Norris.

I am going to be ecstatic when EK comes back here as a UFA even if he is going to be shell of his former glory tho . He is an Ottawa Senator and will go down as one of the greatest.

In the meantime I hope we crush Karlsson on the penguins

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

It's not going to happen. It requires Chabot out the door and they aren't going to move him. We'll all just have no choice but to start cheering for the Penguins instead. It was a fun ride with the Senators though.

 

[Agent Zub]

It's not going to happen. It requires Chabot out the door and they aren't going to move him. We'll all just have no choice but to start cheering for the Penguins instead. It was a fun ride with the Senators though.

Pittsburgh will be scary with EK. Crosby still a star, Malkin still a star, Karlsson still a star, Guentzel still a star, Letang still a star. And they all know how to win and what it takes to win.

Maybe have to add some speed but that's not that hard.

 

[Mingus Dew]

Pittsburgh will be scary with EK. Crosby still a star, Malkin still a star, Karlsson still a star, Guentzel still a star, Letang still a star. And they all know how to win and what it takes to win.

Maybe have to add some speed but that's not that hard.

We'll see. Letang is a glass cannon and Guentzel is having ankle surgery and will be rehabbing for 3 months. TBD what he's like when he comes back.

I think they're a playoff team with EK but it doesn't vault them over the big dogs in the Metro.

 

[Sun God Nika]

Pittsburgh will be scary with EK. Crosby still a star, Malkin still a star, Karlsson still a star, Guentzel still a star, Letang still a star. And they all know how to win and what it takes to win.

Maybe have to add some speed but that's not that hard.

I feel like the chances the pens and their aging vets stay healthy is less than this injury prone senators squad. Don’t have number to back it up tho

 

[Sun God Nika]

Batherson and Giroux reached out to DJ to say they can play LW. AKA please don’t take me out of the top 6 to spread the wealth.

Giroux - Stützle - Tarasenko
Tkachuk - Norris - Batherson
Kubalik - Pinto - Greig
Kelly - Kastelic - Sokolov
MacEwan

Sanderson - Zub
Chabot - Chychrun
Brannstrom - Hamonic
JBD

Korpi
Forsberg

 

[BrawlFan]

Batherson and Giroux reached out to DJ to say they can play LW. AKA please don’t take me out of the top 6 to spread the wealth.

Giroux - Stützle - Tarasenko
Tkachuk - Norris - Batherson
Kubalik - Pinto - Greig
Kelly - Kastelic - Sokolov
MacEwan

Sanderson - Zub
Chabot - Chychrun
Brannstrom - Hamonic
JBD

Korpi
Forsberg

Two issues.
1) stu’s line is gonna be really slow
2) I think the only reason we have kubalik is to give greig a year to develop. I think the third line is
Kubalik-Pinto-Soko

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Tkachuk Stutzle Tarasenko
Kubalik Norris Giroux
Greig Pinto Batherson
Kelly Kastelic Highmore/Joseph
MacEwen

Sandy Cychrun
Chabot Zub
Brannstrom/Kleven Hamonic
JBD

One of Brannstrom or Joseph or both are moved to sign Pinto and possibly make another move.

Smejkal could figure in on 3/4 LW if Greig is not ready and demoted and they want him over Kelly.

 

[aragorn]

I think Sokolov has done enough in Belleville to be given an opportunity in Ottawa to add some bottom six secondary scoring. This lineup gives Ottawa two very strong top lines & if Sokolov/Pinto or Kubalik can turn into a playmaker could help create some bottom six secondary scoring options. We already know Joseph or anyone else on that 4th line isn't a playmaker.

IMO Sokolov or Greig are the next best offensive threats in this organization unless someone surprises us this yr. The other option is to move Tarasenko to RW where he has played for yrs & push Batherson down to the 3r line to be a playmaker & increase bottom six scoring which I think is quite possible. I even orefer Kelly over Joseph on tht 4th line, he just brings more.

Tkachuk - Stutzle - Giroux
Tarasenko - Norris - Batherson
Kubalik - Pinto - Sokolov
Joseph - Kastelic - MacEwen/Kelly

Tkachuk - Stutzle - Tarasenko
Kubalik - Norris - Giroux
Sokolov - Pinto - Batherson
Joseph - Kastelic - MacEwen/Kelly

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I think Sokolov has done enough in Belleville to be given an opportunity in Ottawa to add some bottom six secondary scoring. This lineup gives Ottawa two very strong top lines & if Sokolov/Pinto or Kubalik can turn into a playmaker could help create some bottom six secondary scoring options. We already know Joseph or anyone else on that 4th line isn't a playmaker.

IMO Sokolov or Greig are the next best offensive threats in this organization unless someone surprises us this yr. The other option is to move Tarasenko to RW where he has played for yrs & push Batherson down to the 3r line to be a playmaker & increase bottom six scoring which I think is quite possible. I even orefer Kelly over Joseph on tht 4th line, he just brings more.

Tkachuk - Stutzle - Giroux
Tarasenko - Norris - Batherson
Kubalik - Pinto - Sokolov
Joseph - Kastelic - MacEwen/Kelly

Tkachuk - Stutzle - Tarasenko
Kubalik - Norris - Giroux
Sokolov - Pinto - Batherson
Joseph - Kastelic - MacEwen/Kelly

Tarasenko prefers RW has mentioned he has played almost entirely RW. He will play RW