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Prospect Info: 2023-24 Prospect Development Tracker

FirstRowUpperDeck

Registered User
May 20, 2014
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Arlington, TX
I recall that Gainey wasn't particularly thrilled when Turco stayed at Michigan for 4 years before his 2 years in the AHL. They felt it set back his development. On the other hand, I think he got his big break when Belfour went on some tangent or another and he got to play.
 
Troy McClure

Troy McClure

Suter will never be scratched
Mar 12, 2002
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South of Heaven
M88K said:
Sure, but the stars "development" of European players is mostly hands off.
Over the last 20years the more "hands on" the Stars have had with development (which does extend to the CHL), the worse those players have been.
If you were to compare the defensemen that played in the NHL for the stars, those that spent significant time developing in Europe/NCAA away from the direct control of the Stars vs staying in NA (CHL/ECHL/AHL), you would find players that the "hands off" players played almost 4000 games in the NHL and counting. and the Hands On players are under 2000 games.
You would also find that all but Dillon are players who were drafted in the 1st round.
Where's the Euro/NCAA group would only have Heiskanen and Niskanen in the 1st round.

You can look at Honka.
He was drafted in the 1st round. He followed team advice and jumped to the AHL, using the Euro player loophole. spent several years listening to and following Stars coaches advice. Absolute dogshit player.
Oleksiak was rescued by Pittsburgh.
Harley is still tbd but at least looks good.
Dillon is really the Stars lone "success" story for a complete hands on development not turning into complete dogshit.

I'm sure the Stars were in contact with Klingberg, Heiskanen, Lindell, etc, while they were in Europe, and probably said focus on this or work on this. but we know they weren't there everyday "directing" them, and not so coincidentally they're the players that, far more often, turn into anything at the NHL level for the Stars
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I don't know. It just seems like you're coming up with exception on exception to not count the successes while treating every failure like an organizational one. It all goes hand in hand.

If the Stars draft a European player who jumps right to the NHL, that's an organizational success because it means the scouting worked. Same with drafting a Canadian who jumps right from juniors to the NHL. That's what you want. You want guys who are good enough to earn NHL jobs early. It's why articles talking about how good teams are at producing NHL talent praise the Stars for these picks.
 
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LT

LT

Global Moderator
Jul 23, 2010
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I still don't know how to really think of scouting versus development when it comes to prospects.

Scouting is obviously a key element in identifying and acquiring talent. It's imperfect, but there are teams that clearly put a lot of work into their scouting systems, and it pays off. Dallas may have had some kind of fundamental scouting shift around 2019, and since then it's been marvelous.

Development is a weird one, though. What exactly is being developed? What is the process? It varies a lot based on specific skills and positions, too. Developing defensive skills and offensive skills are two completely different things. Not even mentioning goaltending, which is it's own entire world.

I think I tend to lean toward scouting being far more important than development. Training might be a better word - getting players into the current team and its system, acclimating them appropriately, and determining what skills they can provide and how those skills can be best utilized to support the team.

That is a hard thing to keep cohesive in the NHL though, especially for a team that has had 5 head coaches (all with very different systems) in 7 years.

I think, to summarize, there is so much nuance here that it's impossible for random fans on the internet to properly critique. Way too much on all of this that we never see or hear about.
 
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Zapp

Zapp

Owner of Fellas Club
Mar 14, 2016
4,968
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Jyvaskyla
This is getting so overly complicated lol. NHL teams have almost nothing to do with development other than providing resources. You choose a development route, very early, on your own and it’s up to you to get into extra off-season camps and training. USA hockey actually has a full road map for development even post draft to help players. You might get extra help from your pro club if you’re a high end pick in the AHL but it’s not like you get a team of staff members having meetings about your progress lol. You get extra hours in with a coach like Stan Tugolukov, that’s it. Outside of the AHL the teams you play for will obviously help develop your game but it’s not like HIFK is tailoring developmental plans for Dallas stars prospects to give them the best chance of success for the Stars.

You don’t get some magic NHL playbook with different systems either. The same exact systems/playbooks used in the NHL are used in juniors/usntdp and virtually every league around the world. The NHL is just those systems at 10x pace.
 
MrHeiskanen

MrHeiskanen

Registered User
Nov 12, 2017
12,196
9,643
Klockis said:
How is it idiotic or weird to want to work at you preferable workplace? He seems smart if anything else to include an out clause.
Click to expand...

His out clause should have been in the middle of the playoff run, that would have been smarter.
 
Troy McClure

Troy McClure

Suter will never be scratched
Mar 12, 2002
47,812
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South of Heaven
LT said:
I still don't know how to really think of scouting versus development when it comes to prospects.

Scouting is obviously a key element in identifying and acquiring talent. It's imperfect, but there are teams that clearly put a lot of work into their scouting systems, and it pays off. Dallas may have had some kind of fundamental scouting shift around 2019, and since then it's been marvelous.

Development is a weird one, though. What exactly is being developed? What is the process? It varies a lot based on specific skills and positions, too. Developing defensive skills and offensive skills are two completely different things. Not even mentioning goaltending, which is it's own entire world.

I think I tend to lean toward scouting being far more important than development. Training might be a better word - getting players into the current team and its system, acclimating them appropriately, and determining what skills they can provide and how those skills can be best utilized to support the team.

That is a hard thing to keep cohesive in the NHL though, especially for a team that has had 5 head coaches (all with very different systems) in 7 years.

I think, to summarize, there is so much nuance here that it's impossible for random fans on the internet to properly critique. Way too much on all of this that we never see or hear about.
Click to expand...
I've come to cynically think a lot of player development is little more than waiting for skinny 17 year olds to become grown men. Player development seems to be 90% time, weight rooms, and roids.

Or guys like Faksa and Hintz needed to stay healthy long enough to earn their promotions. They probably would have been NHLers sooner with better injury luck after being drafted. I don't think any AHL coach had anything to do with Hintz being an explosive skater.

Sometimes you draft guys with deficiencies you have to help them overcome. Honka and Harley were drafted with fairly similar defensive weaknesses. Harley took the effort to correct his. Honka didn't. Is that on the development coaches or the front office? Maybe it should be on the scouts for not recognizing this in his personality when deciding to draft him. I don't know.
 
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piqued

piqued

nos merentur hoc
Nov 22, 2006
32,084
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But I was told he was going back partly to play one last time for his dear old Switzerland.

Huh, this flag is an interesting color. 🇨🇭🇨🇭🇨🇭
 
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