Speculation: 2021 Sharks Offseason Roster Discussion part IV

[hohosaregood]

I can’t imagine those two are related, though. Meier is worth way more than a 3C, surely.

I'd think about a Dubois-Meier kinda trade if that's out there.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Tend to agree. Have to think that until tomorrow comes around that DW has something with Meier and Jones lined up. If Arizona can move OEL with no retention then surely there’s a market for Jones with a little retention.

Right? I mean it's hard to evaluate the players you follow closest sometimes but it sure seems like some terrible contracts have been moved so far which makes it seem possible to move even a guy like Vlasic in the right deal.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

I'd think about a Dubois-Meier kinda trade if that's out there.

Oh shit that would be cool. Aren't the jets more likely to keep PLD though?

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

If things keep going the way they are, they might not be able to go full capacity anyways.

Do you mean pandemic wise or team sucking wise?

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

I agree with those who think Wilson will be in on Eichel. With Eklund in the bag it becomes much easier to move Wiesblatt (preferably), Bordeleau, or even both for a franchise center.

Beyond that, Buffalo’s window is closing to trade him anywhere and when it does Jack can say NYR or Boston, and their leverage tanks.

I’ve got to think Buffalo will target a non lottery protected pick in 2022 (and ‘23 perhaps). Target a team that could end up missing the playoffs with some bad luck or injuries.

I still would like to tank for the next year or two and try and grab Wright, Bedard, or Michkov, but this feels like something that’s got Wilson written all over of it.

Also perhaps that’s why Jones hasn’t been bought out?

If DW gets Eichel and somehow sends jones back in the deal...

 

[OffSydes]

Do you mean pandemic wise or team sucking wise?

 

[timorous me]

I still feel like Pagnotta is just sort of stating the obvious again. Everyone knows we want a 3C (Doug has straight-up said it, if I'm not mistaken) and of course Doug isn't going to just hang up on anyone who calls about Timo. Also, he hails Timo's RFA status as appealing to other teams, but it's not, really, because of how the contract is structured. He's basically an RFA in name only, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[TheBeard]

If DW gets Eichel and somehow sends jones back in the deal...

I can't imagine what else we'd have to pony up in that situation unless we're also taking Skinner.

Eichel/Skinner

for

Jones/22 1st/23 1st/ Bordeleau/Meier/Merkeley/

 

[sharks_dynasty]

I can't imagine what else we'd have to pony up in that situation unless we're also taking Skinner.

Eichel/Skinner

for

Jones/22 1st/23 1st/ Bordeleau/Meier/Merkeley/

Trust me, I want Eichel, but not for that price. I’d rather we keep all of our assets. Collectively they are worth more than just Eichel.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

I can't imagine what else we'd have to pony up in that situation unless we're also taking Skinner.

Eichel/Skinner

for

Jones/22 1st/23 1st/ Bordeleau/Meier/Merkeley/

We would need them to retain on Skinner. I've said in the past I wouldn't mind taking on Skinner if the cap hit can be reduced. He's way too young to write off unless it's a drug problem or something physical. Could be a great come back story... or the death of a franchise.

Looking at your deal though, taking on skinner reduces the Sharks payout. Probably a lot. No way do they cough up what is basically 4 1sts and Bordeleau for Eichel. I don't think the Sabres are asking for that much now. Skinner is the worst contract in that whole deal. They would have to retain half of Skinners cap and probably 2 mil on Eichels to even get close to what you've got going out for the Sharks. Probably still have to take one of the 1sts out of the deal.

 

[TheBeard]

We would need them to retain on Skinner. I've said in the past I wouldn't mind taking on Skinner if the cap hit can be reduced. He's way too young to write off unless it's a drug problem or something physical. Could be a great come back story... or the death of a franchise.

Looking at your deal though, taking on skinner reduces the Sharks payout. Probably a lot. No way do they cough up what is basically 4 1sts and Bordeleau for Eichel. I don't think the Sabres are asking for that much now. Skinner is the worst contract in that whole deal. They would have to retain half of Skinners cap and probably 2 mil on Eichels to even get close to what you've got going out for the Sharks. Probably still have to take one of the 1sts out of the deal.

It's tough to say. Despite the bloated contract, there's still significantly more value in Skinner than Jones. He can still be a part of a team's future, something no doubt is not in the cards for Jones. He's an absolutely sunk cost with no redeemable value whatsoever. Maybe if we swap out Merkely for Simek.

Either or, I'm not on board with it. I've made my Eichel opinions clear all year.

 

[Jargon]

My feeling is that they’ve repeated over and over again that they have a target window for the new guys. Meier is young enough to be a part of that team — and frankly, considering they’re all under 5 feet, he’d be useful. So, if they’re trying to trade him it’s gotta be for a high draft pick and either a young blue chip prospect or yeah, someone like Dubois. Same goes for Kane. Though I think the way DW answered the locker room drama question was indicative of the fact that he had no plans to trade Kane but I could be wrong.

Labanc I think is a different story, I imagine Labanc for a 3C is a fairly reasonable trade, if it’s a good 3C.

 

[matt trick]

If DW gets Eichel and somehow sends jones back in the deal...

Honestly it wouldn't surprise me, removing Eichel Buff has $32M committed to 9 players, needing to re-sign Dahlen and Mittestadt. Now, I can think of an infinite number of ways I'd rather spend $15M on than Martin Jones, but if Wilson gives up the most futures, I think Buff would consider it, as they won't be competing for the next three years anyway.

I'd imagine it would be at least three of 2022 1st, 2023 1st, Meier/Labanc, Wiesblatt, Eklund, and Bordeleau, and several other assets, but with Jones it'd probably be four- and you'd still need to add. San Jose has the benefits of being (after Anaheim) the worst team likely in consideration (raising the value of the 1sts) and having plenty of good, but not great assets. The great assets other teams have Byfield/Turcotte, Rossi/Boldy, Zegras/Drysdale seem to not be available. Maybe Krebs or Kaliyev would be considered great assets though if they're available.

I think Eklund, Wiesblatt, Bordeleau, Barbanov, Dahlen, Checkovich and Leonard could join Kane, Meier, Balcers and Labanc as top 9 wingers in the next 2-3 seasons. Perfect fit for a 'quality for quantity' trade returning a top center.

However, if Wilson can make such a move, how can you not look at the D and G situation and not feel a little sick.

A top 9 of Couture, Hertl, Eichel, Eklund, Kane, Labanc, Balcers, Bordeleau/Wiesblatt, and TBD would be excellent, but Hill would need to be a cheap home run, and a top 4 d-man would need to appear out of thin air at almost no cap hit for it to be viable.

Ultimately, I don't think it's the direction we should go, but I have no doubt Wilson is running through every Eichel to SJ option. I'll almost be more surprised if it doesn't happen. First time since Karlsson he's had trade capital, he can't help himself.

 

[matt trick]

On the Labanc for a 3C...as per my marathon post above, I think we have sufficient winger options to replace Labanc, I'd love to see a quality third line center with size and defensive acumen. I like Labanc, but I think we have the guys to replace him for 1/3rd the cap hit.

When you have as many holes as SJ does, you need to decide which ones are unlikely to be filled internally, but top 6 offensive winger and one-way offensive d-men are the strengths of the org.

 

[TheBeard]

A top 9 of Couture, Hertl, Eichel, Eklund, Kane, Labanc, Balcers, Bordeleau/Wiesblatt, and TBD would be excellent, but Hill would need to be a cheap home run, and a top 4 d-man would need to appear out of thin air at almost no cap hit for it to be viable.

There's just waaaaay too many question marks in that group to make me confident. Hertl and Eichel are major injury concerns, Balcers looked good but who knows what his ceiling is, Bourdeleau, Wiesblatt and Eklund may not be ready to play in the NHL yet.

 

[matt trick]

There's just waaaaay too many question marks in that group to make me confident. Hertl and Eichel are major injury concerns, Balcers looked good but who knows what his ceiling is, Bourdeleau, Wiesblatt and Eklund may not be ready to play in the NHL yet.

Yeah, which is why I want us to tank for the next two years to hopefully get a more sure thing in the form of a franchise player on an ELC, but I can appreciate how Wilson can squint and say, yeah I think this is a new window, while Karlsson and Burns still have juice in the tank*

*I believe Wilson thinks he still has two #1 d-men.

 

[Mattb124]

I think Leonard will be much more of a contributor this year than last, so we have options (albeit not great ones) for top 9 wingers.

 

[TheBeard]

Yeah, which is why I want us to tank for the next two years to hopefully get a more sure thing in the form of a franchise player on an ELC, but I can appreciate how Wilson can squint and say, yeah I think this is a new window, while Karlsson and Burns still have juice in the tank*

*I believe Wilson thinks he still has two #1 d-men.

He absolutely does, or if he doesn't he's still selling the idea to owernship. And they may still, if BB can manage their minutes better. I don't think they're complete toast yet, and I can at least understand why DW would be trying to give it one last go. I still believe EK65 can revert back to at least 85% of his prime and that's unfortunately where I can see an Eichel as so enticing. No one likes the idea of a rebuild and with these contracts, screw it, you may as well go for it.

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

Honestly it wouldn't surprise me, removing Eichel Buff has $32M committed to 9 players, needing to re-sign Dahlen and Mittestadt. Now, I can think of an infinite number of ways I'd rather spend $15M on than Martin Jones, but if Wilson gives up the most futures, I think Buff would consider it, as they won't be competing for the next three years anyway.

I'd imagine it would be at least three of 2022 1st, 2023 1st, Meier/Labanc, Wiesblatt, Eklund, and Bordeleau, and several other assets, but with Jones it'd probably be four- and you'd still need to add. San Jose has the benefits of being (after Anaheim) the worst team likely in consideration (raising the value of the 1sts) and having plenty of good, but not great assets. The great assets other teams have Byfield/Turcotte, Rossi/Boldy, Zegras/Drysdale seem to not be available. Maybe Krebs or Kaliyev would be considered great assets though if they're available.

I think Eklund, Wiesblatt, Bordeleau, Barbanov, Dahlen, Checkovich and Leonard could join Kane, Meier, Balcers and Labanc as top 9 wingers in the next 2-3 seasons. Perfect fit for a 'quality for quantity' trade returning a top center.

However, if Wilson can make such a move, how can you not look at the D and G situation and not feel a little sick.

A top 9 of Couture, Hertl, Eichel, Eklund, Kane, Labanc, Balcers, Bordeleau/Wiesblatt, and TBD would be excellent, but Hill would need to be a cheap home run, and a top 4 d-man would need to appear out of thin air at almost no cap hit for it to be viable.

Ultimately, I don't think it's the direction we should go, but I have no doubt Wilson is running through every Eichel to SJ option. I'll almost be more surprised if it doesn't happen. First time since Karlsson he's had trade capital, he can't help himself.

If DW even thinks of doing something like that, walk his ass out of the building right now before he can cripple the franchise for another 5 years.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

If DW even thinks of doing something like that, walk his ass out of the building right now before he can cripple the franchise for another 5 years.

If you get Jones to go to Buffalo, they should be able to make a swap for something like Okposo for Jones and Labanc or something. I'm sure Jones would rather get bought out though.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

It's tough to say. Despite the bloated contract, there's still significantly more value in Skinner than Jones. He can still be a part of a team's future, something no doubt is not in the cards for Jones. He's an absolutely sunk cost with no redeemable value whatsoever. Maybe if we swap out Merkely for Simek.

Either or, I'm not on board with it. I've made my Eichel opinions clear all year.

Jones only has 3 season left and is a lot cheaper than Skinner. They're virtually equal in terms of value or catastrophe .

 

[TheBeard]

Jones only has 3 season left and is a lot cheaper than Skinner. They're virtually equal in terms of value or catastrophe .

What if you're getting a Skinner that's back to scoring 30-40 goals a season. Would you bite the bullet and take that?

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

On the Labanc for a 3C...as per my marathon post above, I think we have sufficient winger options to replace Labanc, I'd love to see a quality third line center with size and defensive acumen. I like Labanc, but I think we have the guys to replace him for 1/3rd the cap hit.

When you have as many holes as SJ does, you need to decide which ones are unlikely to be filled internally, but top 6 offensive winger and one-way offensive d-men are the strengths of the org.

I agree completely but prepare for 3 pages of posts telling you how wrong you are.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

What if you're getting a Skinner that's back to scoring 30-40 goals a season. Would you bite the bullet and take that?

Of course. Problem value wise is that it's a crap shoot either way. At least with Jones you're out of trouble in 3 years.

 

[Mafoofoo]

If we’re trading for Eichel one would hope Couture is going the other way.