2021 Offseason Thread | 2022 Roster Speculation Part III

[Satan]

I’d be pumped if we signed perry and getzlaf . I think that’s a better route than committing 6m to an over rated Blake Coleman for 5 years .

Me too.

At this stage in the game, I'd much prefer low risk/medium reward 1 year contracts over signing 3rd liners to 6 year tickets.

 

[Zapp]

Me too.

At this stage in the game, I'd much prefer low risk/medium reward 1 year contracts over signing 3rd liners to 6 year tickets.

I’m all for loading the contracts with performance bonuses

 

[MrHeiskanen]

No way Corey Perry is coming back, I don't see it.

 

[Kcb12345]

 

[Zapp]

that pretty much makes it official

 

[WhoahNow]

The Bobfather puts down his margarita to type this then its pretty much official

 

[Satan]

Hockey USA x Hockey Canada:
Ryan Suter
Joe Pavelski
Jamie Benn
Tyler Seguin
Corey Perry
Ryan Getzlaf

Time to add Phil Kessel

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

Surprised there isn't a thread on the free agent board.

 

[starsfan86]

Surprised there isn't a thread on the free agent board.

Rumor: - Stars "pushing hard" on multi-year deal for Ryan Suter

 

[BG44]

Me too.

At this stage in the game, I'd much prefer low risk/medium reward 1 year contracts over signing 3rd liners to 6 year tickets.

This is always fun ... we're less than 24 hours away from free agency. You have free reign, what are the moves you want to happen. Not what is realistic/Nill likely to do (yet still realistic with the structure of the salary cap and reasonable contracts/trades).

 

[BG44]

I’d be pumped if we signed perry and getzlaf . I think that’s a better route than committing 6m to an over rated Blake Coleman for 5 years .

Being better than signing Coleman and being the move I'd most like to see are two different things.

I'd be much happier to see Dallas give bonus laden contracts to older players than give Coleman $5 or $6 million, but I'd still be bummed about Perry and Getzlaf when many are speculating there are some potential prove it deals available for a guy like Tatar or maybe even Palmieri. I think if you're patient, you can probably avoid the 35+ bargain bin in favor of another short-term option that may also be available.

I would not be entirely thrilled about Granlund anymore, but I'd be much happier taking a risk on him than Getzlaf ... just personally.

I have a much easier time convincing myself Granlund was hindered by Nashville than I do believing Getzlaf has much left in the tank. Granlund is still isn't that attractive because if Nashville hurt his production, why would I not assume Dallas' offensive black hole wouldn't do the same thing?

 

[BfantZ]

Being better than signing Coleman and being the move I'd most like to see are two different things.

I'd be much happier to see Dallas give bonus laden contracts to older players than give Coleman $5 or $6 million, but I'd still be bummed about Perry and Getzlaf when many are speculating there are some potential prove it deals available for a guy like Tatar or maybe even Palmieri. I think if you're patient, you can probably avoid the 35+ bargain bin in favor of another short-term option that may also be available.

I would not be entirely thrilled about Granlund anymore, but I'd be much happier taking a risk on him than Getzlaf ... just personally.

I have a much easier time convincing myself Granlund was hindered by Nashville than I do believing Getzlaf has much left in the tank. Granlund is still isn't that attractive because if Nashville hurt his production, why would I not assume Dallas' offensive black hole wouldn't do the same thing?

Just no expensive long term deals please . Granlund will cost more . Tatar sucks now . Getzlaf has the playoff experience . Perfect guy to fill a bottom six role and fill top 6 for injuries .

 

[BG44]

If we're going to give out a bonus-laden contract on a center .... why not focus on Krejci? No one has suggested it's Boston or bust for him, and Seravalli at least asked the question if he was going to stay, wouldn't already have happened.

 

[BfantZ]

If we're going to give out a bonus-laden contract on a center .... why not focus on Krejci? No one has suggested it's Boston or bust for him, and Seravalli at least asked the question if he was going to stay, wouldn't already have happened.

I suggested this earlier this offseason .

 

[Troy McClure]

In response to a comment on churning, here are the main player changes from year to year:

Gone from 2020-2021 - Perry, Janmark

Gone from 2019-2020-Johns, Polak

Gone from 2018-2019 - Bayreuther, Carrick, Cracknell, Hanzel, Heatherington, Honka, Nuke, Ritchie, Shore, Smith, Spezza, Zuch (part year)

Gone from 2017-2018 - Jordie Benn, Eakin, Eaves, Elie, Hamuis, Lehtonen, Niemi, Nemeth, Sharp

From this, you do get the feeling (and also from Nill's comments) that he had rebuilt the team from Ruff's 2016 version to the post 2018 Hitch/Monty style of play in a few years, and figures (or hopes, because he may be out of ammo) it is a contender worth keeping together.

The way I see it Nill did two big roster churns. The first came the first couple of seasons on the job when he built the team Kari let down in the playoffs a couple of times. The second big churn came with the change from Ruff.

And we are now at the last season of that second churn with Klingberg, Radulov, and Pavelski all coming free next summer. It’s very likely two if not all three of them aren’t on the roster for 22-23.

 

[BG44]

It's too bad there are several reports out there that Cedric Paquette is going to sign in Montreal. I bet he'd be pretty cheap and a good depth option to push Kero and others down the lineup.

 

[BfantZ]

The way I see it Nill did two big roster churns. The first came the first couple of seasons on the job when he built the team Kari let down in the playoffs a couple of times. The second big churn came with the change from Ruff.

And we are now at the last season of that second churn with Klingberg, Radulov, and Pavelski all coming free next summer. It’s very likely two if not all three of them aren’t on the roster for 22-23.

Especially if we want michkov lol

 

[WhoahNow]

Especially if we want michkov lol

Mail it in for Michkov

 

[Captain Awesome]

This is always fun ... we're less than 24 hours away from free agency. You have free reign, what are the moves you want to happen. Not what is realistic/Nill likely to do (yet still realistic with the structure of the salary cap and reasonable contracts/trades).

I already wrote my version of this out somewhere in part 2, but it involves signing Hamilton while trading Klingberg and Radulov to help extend the window.

For the record, I think 9 years is enough, you're either a perennial contender or you have f***ed up. The Stars are not a perennial contender, unless you change that definition to a team that is a constant threat to make the playoffs every year, that I could see. The drafting has improved, but the process is still lacking, and there's just no excuse for how long it took to get here. The deadline acquisitions have been terrible, or non existent. He can have a pass on the Zuccarello one, but there's never any excuse to trade real assets for Kris Russel. The UFAs have been unambitious unless he has had a lot of cap space. For every Radulov (which is absolutely a homerun UFA acquisition), there are Sekeras, Pitlicks, and Comeaus of the world, he's crappy at bargain bin hunting. I don't want to think about our goalie situation before Khudobin, his 4th or 5th attempt at getting a competent backup. The trades were spectacular, now they are nonexistent. He's averaging a coach every 2 years, which is also about how often we've made the playoffs. We have let him do the all-offense version of this team, then transition to the all-defense version of this team. We STILL don't have a dedicated analytics department. It's not the be-all end-all of how to build a hockey team, but ignoring it at this point is ridiculous. As a fan, I'm very ready for another GM.

Everyone whose argument is in favor of Jim Nill is afraid we'll get a worse GM. Sure, thats a possibility, but he isn't special. He's good at some things, and he's bad at others. He probably is in the top 50% of GMs, but so what? There are like 4 or 5 good GMs in the entire league. Two of them are Yzerman and Sakic. Sakic is in his first stint, Yzerman has got to be the only GM I can think of who stepped away from a team instead of getting fired, and people were actually sad to see him go. Point being, bring in some fresh blood, overhaul the entire front office, for the love of god get rid of Jim Lites, Les Jackson, Jim McDonnell, add an honest to god analytics department. I don't care if it's one person, or two people, that discipline of hockey deserves to have a voice at the table. Also, get rid of our pro scouts. Whoever is signing these UFAs stopped watching hockey in 2010, it's the only way I can explain the love affair with old players. Keep on whoever has gotten Nill to realize that drafting for skill is a good thing to do, it has been since the salary cap was implemented. I'm going to try and promise myself that this is the only time I type out something similar this entire season, but that probably isn't true.

 

[BG44]

That seems like it might have been cathartic for you.

I was really only talking about tomorrow though ...

 

[Captain Awesome]

That seems like it might have been cathartic for you.

I was really only talking about tomorrow though ...

I get annoyed with people defending his every move, lol. It was fun to type out though!

I really meant the first sentence to be a response to you, and the rest for the general discussion in this topic.

 

[eartotheground]

I get annoyed with people defending his every move, lol. It was fun to type out though!

I really meant the first sentence to be a response to you, and the rest for the general discussion in this topic.

i'll bite. give me a few

 

[Kipper 17]

I get annoyed with people defending his every move, lol. It was fun to type out though!

I really meant the first sentence to be a response to you, and the rest for the general discussion in this topic.

Are there really people on here that defend his every move though?

I feel like most people on here that defend him are responding to the hyperbolic “Nill is trash at everything” comments. It’s not that they’re saying everything he does is great but being an internet message board, there is often a lot of over the top comments thrown around and I get why people feel the need to give what they feel is a more level headed comment. Maybe I’m wrong but that’s how it comes off to me.

Personally, I would be fine with moving on from Nill. But I would be worried that the replacement wouldn’t be an improvement because I think he’s a middling GM in this league. I would be excited to see what someone with a fresh view on this roster would do though.

 

[Captain Awesome]

Are there really people on here that defend his every move though?

I feel like most people on here that defend him are responding to the hyperbolic “Nill is trash at everything” comments. It’s not that they’re saying everything he does is great but being an internet message board, there is often a lot of over the top comments thrown around and I get why people feel the need to give what they feel is a more level headed comment. Maybe I’m wrong but that’s how it comes off to me.

Personally, I would be fine with moving on from Nill. But I would be worried that the replacement wouldn’t be an improvement because I think he’s a middling GM in this league. I would be excited to see what someone with a fresh view on this roster would do though.

There are people who say that like there are people who say 'Nill is trash at everything', which is to say, that nitpicking hyperbole is silly. You know exactly what I mean.

 

[eartotheground]

I already wrote my version of this out somewhere in part 2, but it involves signing Hamilton while trading Klingberg and Radulov to help extend the window.

For the record, I think 9 years is enough, you're either a perennial contender or you have f***ed up.

no, that assumes everyone has the same starting point. have you looked at the bankrupt bs the stars as an organization had become?

The Stars are not a perennial contender, unless you change that definition to a team that is a constant threat to make the playoffs every year, that I could see.

how many teams have been a perennial contender for the last nine years? how many a constant playoff threat?

The drafting has improved, but the process is still lacking, and there's just no excuse for how long it took to get here. The deadline acquisitions have been terrible, or non existent. He can have a pass on the Zuccarello one, but there's never any excuse to trade real assets for Kris Russel. The UFAs have been unambitious unless he has had a lot of cap space. For every Radulov (which is absolutely a homerun UFA acquisition), there are Sekeras, Pitlicks, and Comeaus of the world, he's crappy at bargain bin hunting. I don't want to think about our goalie situation before Khudobin, his 4th or 5th attempt at getting a competent backup.

don't dismiss the fact that drafting has improved.. the ability of an organization to learn and change is massive and rare. also, those acquisitions aren't terrible, i'd contend they're actually more than half way decent bargain bin hunting. cogs on the other hand... but, anyway, goalies are voodoo. and you can't argue that he recognized it as a weakness and tried anything and everything to fix it.as for signing UFAs, it's such bs. every FA signing you can go to 15 other boards and find ppl bitching that their GM didn't sign so and so. it's just not always an option, and if you money whipped every ufa to sign with you, you'd be fired for cap mismanagement.

The trades were spectacular, now they are nonexistent. He's averaging a coach every 2 years, which is also about how often we've made the playoffs. We have let him do the all-offense version of this team, then transition to the all-defense version of this team.

how much of that is nill, and how much is TG? remember, there's only so much nill can control, be it an owner or the interest in a free agent signing here. and omg.. are you really going to penalize him for a coach that was forced on him (hitch) and a coach that dove into the bottle? (monty)
as for trades, it's lovely how you assume that whatever ps4 trade you can come up with would be accepted by other gms. or even comparing similar, 'value.' there are sooooo many more variables in this equation that the number the draft pick is or the dollar sign.

We STILL don't have a dedicated analytics department. It's not the be-all end-all of how to build a hockey team, but ignoring it at this point is ridiculous. As a fan, I'm very ready for another GM.

i'm with you on a dedicated analytics dept. i will however point out that we've doubled the roles at least so far as titles are concerned.. from 1 to 2 lol. but again, that's not just a gm decision, it involves ownership, and who knows how those convos go.

Everyone whose argument is in favor of Jim Nill is afraid we'll get a worse GM. Sure, thats a possibility, but he isn't special. He's good at some things, and he's bad at others. He probably is in the top 50% of GMs, but so what? There are like 4 or 5 good GMs in the entire league. Two of them are Yzerman and Sakic. Sakic is in his first stint, Yzerman has got to be the only GM I can think of who stepped away from a team instead of getting fired, and people were actually sad to see him go. Point being, bring in some fresh blood, overhaul the entire front office, for the love of god get rid of Jim Lites, Les Jackson, Jim McDonnell, add an honest to god analytics department. I don't care if it's one person, or two people, that discipline of hockey deserves to have a voice at the table. Also, get rid of our pro scouts. Whoever is signing these UFAs stopped watching hockey in 2010, it's the only way I can explain the love affair with old players. Keep on whoever has gotten Nill to realize that drafting for skill is a good thing to do, it has been since the salary cap was implemented. I'm going to try and promise myself that this is the only time I type out something similar this entire season, but that probably isn't true.

if you have someone who's in the top half (16 teams) and you only have 5 'good' gms in the league, how do you propose that it's a good bet to get someone in that 6-15 range? especially when you're canning one?

this is all so simple in a vacuum, but there are sooo many points of information that we don't see. and what we see on nill that can't be explained elsewhere points to some pretty good traits. be very, very, careful what you wish for.. especially considering TG's penchant for stepping in.

anyway, if it's not obvious, i have a bit of a soft spot for those in upper management. everyone thinks it's so simple and clear cut. it's not. you have good people that do good things in places, but it's not always recognized. you have marginal people that do good things and bad things, and they aren't always recognized. you have bad people that somehow fly under the radar, and it takes entirely too long to ferret them out. you're never going to make the perfect decisions, you can only work from principles and process and a vision. the biggest keys to me are learning from mistakes, and being willing to change.

i won't defend nill's every move. but i won't lacerate him as some clueless idiot when he's clearly in the top half of 32 positions available in the world at what he does. the guy's not a moron.

i didn't even get into the class with which he's operated. navigating 'f***ing bullshit' and monty's trip down the bottle? the multiple reports of veterans saying they were interested in coming here bc they can trust the way he'll handle things? those actually count in the long view, which is one you expect a gm to take.

good grief. that was too much work over freaking hockey. i'm done, keep on keeping on