Speculation: 2021-2022 Ottawa Senators

[supsens]

I am lucky? Lol I dont care what other posters think its pretty obvious where this team is at. Players need years to mature into their bodies and develop into their roles. Not every prospect or pick is going to play but they are assets for when the time is right. If Ottawa ends up with a stacked D core they can move one of those assets for a forward for example.

Out of the current team and in the organization this is who I feel has a real shot at being part of the solution long term. Signing Duclair is an absolute must.

F
Duclair
Tkachuk
L. Brown
C. Brown
White
Batherson
Formenton
Norris
Chlapik
Paul
Pinto

D
Chabot
Zaitsev
Wolanin
Brannstrom
Jaros
JBD
Thomson

G
Hogberg
Daccord
Soogard?

I think this summer is a really good opportunity to go for a goalie due to expansion. Every other player and asset currently on the team should be sold at its maximum value. I dont want a bandaid fix for this rebuild, I want them to do it right so the team wins a Stanley Cup one day. I dont want to have to go through this again in 5 years because it was rushed.

If the sens can get Matt Murray and end up drafting two forward studs some sort of combination of Lafreniere/Byfield/Stutzl/Raymond then one of Rossi/Lundell/Holtz/Perfetti you can actually see the roster take shape.

For example this team in 4 years could compete for a Stanley Cup

Tkachuk Byfield Batherson
Perfetti L. Brown Duclair
Formenton Norris C. Brown
Paul Pinto White
Chlapik

Chabot JBD
Brannstrom Jaros
Wolanin Zaitsev
Thomson

Murray
Daccord

I don’t think there has ever been a team where every single draft pick and prospect makes the NHL, If two of Norris,Drake,Brown,formenton make it we should be happy.
If Dorian magically refills an entire roster in 2 years of rebuilding mostly through the draft he will be the greatest GM to ever rebuild a team.

 

[Dingle]

the worst really is behind us.. whats wrong with this year? we haven't played horrible and have a nice top ten pick possibly two to look forward to

Sorry Burrow, they moved this and I lost it. We may lose it again, if they move it again. I may be repeating, so I apologize. At this rate 71 points. And that assumes, no second half collapse or second half player selloff leading to a collapse. So, 7 points better than last year. Detroit's poor season is saving us from being last.

Two top 10's, would be what the Doctor ordered. But, we need to hold off on declarations. All picks have to mature, develop, show they belong. As of now, only one pick 2017-2019 has played..Tkachuk. Others have had short stints. The bulk of AHLrs are still there and the few that have come up, have not shone too brightly. Some players we had faith in, seem to be having an off year. White and his 4 goals

So, to declare the worst is behind us, is a tad early.

People are getting on me for rushing the rebuild. Can we slow down the declaration of success? The team is going through a critical junction. The numbers suggest that their resources only marginals exceed their needs. As time marches on, and if all turns out well, we can then declare the worst is behind us.

Half the people scream that we can live without Pinto. Half scream we can live without Thompson and JBD.. I simply say; No. We need all 3. All 3 are part of the critical path.

I find it ironic that I am defending the teams drafting and the team's choices.

 

[bert]

I think if we can snag a legit 1C at this years draft we will look pretty solid down the middle. And i do have to say im a fan of our D specs atm..
To me L.Brown looks like a bust he has great skill but i dont see any drive in his game. I also think c white will be a great 2nd line center to come but even if he doesnt pan out he will be atleast a solid 3rd line C (pageau type)

Down the middle: (Solid)
(Draft 1C)
White
Norris
Pinto

Defense: (very strong)

Chabot Branstron
JBD Thomson
Wolanin zaitsev

I do believe branstrom chabot is an excellent pairing fron the little ive seen those two together so far and although JBD and Thompson arent flashy they are great roll players and can play a shutdown line together and could be very effective

I dont know why everyone is ready to give up on Logan Brown he hasnt even played 100 pro games yet and is tearing up the AHL as a 21 year old. He is 6'6 these types of players always take longer, he has showed his vision and skill he just needs to get stronger and faster as he continues to grow into his body. No reason to just give up on the player yet people need to be patient.

I agree that the D core is shaping up but the sens are missing two skilled line drivers which they could hypothetically get in this years draft with two top 10 picks.

 

[SensFan1010]

I dont know why everyone is ready to give up on Logan Brown he hasnt even played 100 pro games yet and is tearing up the AHL as a 21 year old. He is 6'6 these types of players always take longer, he has showed his vision and skill he just needs to get stronger and faster as he continues to grow into his body. No reason to just give up on the player yet people need to be patient.

I agree that the D core is shaping up but the sens are missing two skilled line drivers which they could hypothetically get in this years draft with two top 10 picks.

Im not saying to totally give up on the kid but i havent liked what ive seen. I do think we should keep him and try to bring him up next yr to give him another shot, but right now in my opinion he hasnt looked good.

 

[DaveMatthew]

I dont know why everyone is ready to give up on Logan Brown he hasnt even played 100 pro games yet and is tearing up the AHL as a 21 year old. He is 6'6 these types of players always take longer, he has showed his vision and skill he just needs to get stronger and faster as he continues to grow into his body. No reason to just give up on the player yet people need to be patient.

I agree that the D core is shaping up but the sens are missing two skilled line drivers which they could hypothetically get in this years draft with two top 10 picks.

There's plenty of reason to be concerned. Players like Puuljujarvi, Juolevi, A.Nylander, Jost, McLeod and Bean have already been labelled disappointments and all were drafted early in Brown's class. At this point, you'd have to put Brown in that category. Especially compared to some of the other players taken in the top 15 that year (Matthews, Laine, Tkachuk, Dubois, Keller, Sergachev, McAvoy, Chychryn).

Maybe he is a late bloomer and puts it all together, but typically, impact players make a better impression in the NHL than Brown has by 21.

I think it's a leap to pencil him in as a top 6 center. He may still become one, and if he does, that's great, but you can't count on it.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Sorry Burrow, they moved this and I lost it. We may lose it again, if they move it again. I may be repeating, so I apologize. At this rate 71 points. And that assumes, no second half collapse or second half player selloff leading to a collapse. So, 7 points better than last year. Detroit's poor season is saving us from being last.

Two top 10's, would be what the Doctor ordered. But, we need to hold off on declarations. All picks have to mature, develop, show they belong. As of now, only one pick 2017-2019 has played..Tkachuk. Others have had short stints. The bulk of AHLrs are still there and the few that have come up, have not shone too brightly. Some players we had faith in, seem to be having an off year. White and his 4 goals

So, to declare the worst is behind us, is a tad early.

People are getting on me for rushing the rebuild. Can we slow down the declaration of success? The team is going through a critical junction. The numbers suggest that their resources only marginals exceed their needs. As time marches on, and if all turns out well, we can then declare the worst is behind us.

Half the people scream that we can live without Pinto. Half scream we can live without Thompson and JBD.. I simply say; No. We need all 3. All 3 are part of the critical path.

I find it ironic that I am defending the teams drafting and the team's choices.

Detroit saving us from being last isn't exactly saving us... when dorion said the worst was behind us I don't think he meant we wont finish last or we wont be bottom of the league again.. of course we would be.

I don't think theres any declaration of success, weve just not hated this year.

 

[Dingle]

Detroit saving us from being last isn't exactly saving us... when dorion said the worst was behind us I don't think he meant we wont finish last or we wont be bottom of the league again.. of course we would be.

I don't think theres any declaration of success, weve just not hated this year.

I don't hate. I watch them on TV. Do not want to see anyone fired. I am not even a Melnyk hater. I am perplexed by him, but I do not hate him. I have worked in sales and know what that world is like..declarations are almost necessary...But integrity is more important. I believe they have whipped themselves into a frenzy and are crawling towards paranoia.. Let anyone speak out and bam..they pounce. Melnyk's and Dorion's new name may be drifting towards Richard Nixon. enjoy your evening/night

 

[bert]

There's plenty of reason to be concerned. Players like Puuljujarvi, Juolevi, A.Nylander, Jost, McLeod and Bean have already been labelled disappointments and all were drafted early in Brown's class. At this point, you'd have to put Brown in that category. Especially compared to some of the other players taken in the top 15 that year (Matthews, Laine, Tkachuk, Dubois, Keller, Sergachev, McAvoy, Chychryn).

Maybe he is a late bloomer and puts it all together, but typically, impact players make a better impression in the NHL than Brown has by 21.

I think it's a leap to pencil him in as a top 6 center. He may still become one, and if he does, that's great, but you can't count on it.

I think you put too much stock into all players developing at the same rate. You have to look at their skillset to identify if they have the tools to be successful and may not figure it out until their early to mid 20's. I think its interesting, at the start of the year so many people were ready to pencil Brown into the top 6 on the sens, I argued he needed more time. Same people that argued with me are now saying he is a bust. It just doesnt seem logical to me. You can see the vision, you can see the skill he simply needs to get faster and stronger. Thats it. Smaller players typically develop faster (not always) because they achieve their maximum strength, coordination and top speed faster. Out of the players you listed I do think Puljujarvi and Brown have the best chances of hitting their maximum potential still. Jake Bean is being developed beautifully in Carolina look at his production, he clearly needed more time and he gets better every year from a production stand point. These players are in their second pro seasons to write the ones off that are dominating at the AHL level just doesnt make alot of sense. There are countless players that need more time to round out their games.

In this organization alone Stone, Alfredsson, Hoffman, Dzingel, Pageau, Paul all didnt make the NHL full time after they were 22 and none were impact players before 23 years old.

 

[DaveMatthew]

I think you put too much stock into all players developing at the same rate. You have to look at their skillset to identify if they have the tools to be successful and may not figure it out until their early to mid 20's. I think its interesting, at the start of the year so many people were ready to pencil Brown into the top 6 on the sens, I argued he needed more time. Same people that argued with me are now saying he is a bust. It just doesnt seem logical to me. You can see the vision, you can see the skill he simply needs to get faster and stronger. Thats it. Smaller players typically develop faster (not always) because they achieve their maximum strength, coordination and top speed faster. Out of the players you listed I do think Puljujarvi and Brown have the best chances of hitting their maximum potential still. Jake Bean is being developed beautifully in Carolina look at his production, he clearly needed more time and he gets better every year from a production stand point. These players are in their second pro seasons to write the ones off that are dominating at the AHL level just doesnt make alot of sense. There are countless players that need more time to round out their games.

In this organization alone Stone, Alfredsson, Hoffman, Dzingel, Pageau, Paul all didnt make the NHL full time after they were 22 and none were impact players before 23 years old.

The troubling issue with Brown is that he hasn't shown much progression in regards to his weaknesses. The scouting report on him in his draft year was basically the same as it is today.

Strengths: Great vision, playmaking abilities and hands
Weaknesses: Slow-footed, poor fitness, lacks motor

Unfortunately, over 3 years, he hasn't shown much improvement in his weaknesses, and they're ones that can be overcome with hard work and motivation.

That didn't happen with players like Stone or Hoffman. Stone's skating got a little bit better every single year until it got to the point where it was no longer a liability and he was able to make the jump. The same thing happened with Hoffman's defensive awareness.

Part of the reason may be that none of the players you mentioned were never highly-touted prospects, so they had to bust their ass just to get drafted and noticed. Brown, on the other hand, has all the talent in the world but seemingly thought he could coast his way onto an NHL team's first line.

Maybe he still makes it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it never clicks for him.

If I had to play the odds, and Dorion should be, I'd lean on the side of never becoming a #1 center.

 

[Dingle]

I think you put too much stock into all players developing at the same rate. You have to look at their skillset to identify if they have the tools to be successful and may not figure it out until their early to mid 20's. I think its interesting, at the start of the year so many people were ready to pencil Brown into the top 6 on the sens, I argued he needed more time. Same people that argued with me are now saying he is a bust. It just doesnt seem logical to me. You can see the vision, you can see the skill he simply needs to get faster and stronger. Thats it. Smaller players typically develop faster (not always) because they achieve their maximum strength, coordination and top speed faster. Out of the players you listed I do think Puljujarvi and Brown have the best chances of hitting their maximum potential still. Jake Bean is being developed beautifully in Carolina look at his production, he clearly needed more time and he gets better every year from a production stand point. These players are in their second pro seasons to write the ones off that are dominating at the AHL level just doesnt make alot of sense. There are countless players that need more time to round out their games.

In this organization alone Stone, Alfredsson, Hoffman, Dzingel, Pageau, Paul all didnt make the NHL full time after they were 22 and none were impact players before 23 years old.

take a good look at the roster, Sens and AHLrs, you may be surprised as to how many are in the 22-23 zone. They better get going. Stone had a productive season at 22 (2014/15) and by 23 was an acknowledge leader on this team.
Dzingal..one good season and we are branding him a star. take a look at his numbers.
Hoffman..okay, a slow starter
Alfie..there have been questions from day 1, about whether he wanted to come, or he did not make the team.. I believe that if he had come over, he may have been successful earlier..so yes, 23, but who knows whether 20/21/22
Paul..I don't want to touch off a debate.. He is a poor example of success. A marginal 3rd 4th liner with 13 points in 38 games. It translates to a 25 point season.

Now repeat for Fisher, Spezza, Havlat, Hossa, Karleson, Chabot, Tkachuk, Foligno, Mazaros, Vermette, Volchenkov and keep on going. Most top players (top 6 forwards and top 4 D), get to the pros in the 20-21 zone and are pretty productive by 22.

I grew up in Montreal in the 70;s. they had a policy, 1 year in the minors and either you are up or gone. It was an uncontrolled draft, you could be 18, 19 or 20 year old draft, so at 20/21 minors...next year, you are up or out. From the horse mouth: Pierre Mondu.

Yes, some do develop later, but you better be careful. Patience is one thing, moving on from a player a year too late is another. Hello Matt Pumple, Hello Shane Prince.

 

[bert]

The troubling issue with Brown is that he hasn't shown much progression in regards to his weaknesses. The scouting report on him in his draft year was basically the same as it is today.

Strengths: Great vision, playmaking abilities and hands
Weaknesses: Slow-footed, poor fitness, lacks motor

Unfortunately, over 3 years, he hasn't shown much improvement in his weaknesses, and they're ones that can be overcome with hard work and motivation.

That didn't happen with players like Stone or Hoffman. Stone's skating got a little bit better every single year until it got to the point where it was no longer a liability and he was able to make the jump. The same thing happened with Hoffman's defensive awareness.

Part of the reason may be that none of the players you mentioned were never highly-touted prospects, so they had to bust their ass just to get drafted and noticed. Brown, on the other hand, has all the talent in the world but seemingly thought he could coast his way onto an NHL team's first line.

Maybe he still makes it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it never clicks for him.

If I had to play the odds, and Dorion should be, I'd lean on the side of never becoming a #1 center.

Brown is playing with more pace this year than last, he put on alot of weight in the offseason. Id be willing to be in his next call up he will be better too. I wont dissagree with you about his work ethic and drive thats always been the issue he probably goes even higher in the draft if he doesnt have those question marks. I know at 21 years old I wasnt remotely close to being mature and dedicating my self to my work but I figured it out through time. I think he has made strides in the right direction, I dont know if he will ever be a number 1 centerman but he could be a damn good pp specialist number 2 center when he fully develops. The sens have atleast 1 top 10 pick in this years draft that is very deep it will give them a chance to draft a number 1 center. The thing I do like about Brown is that if he does end up as a top 6 center he is very big that would allow Ottawa to draft Rossi (hopefully with San Jose's first) as an undersized center as they wont be super small down the middle.

 

[GCK]

The thing about Brown is that if he develops into a top 6 centre great, if not someone else will step in, whether it is by committee or someone steps up or we draft someone. We won’t be making the playoffs next year so we have more time to find out.

 

[DaveMatthew]

The thing about Brown is that if he develops into a top 6 centre great, if not someone else will step in, whether it is by committee or someone steps up or we draft someone. We won’t be making the playoffs next year so we have more time to find out.

Having a legitimate #1 center is crucial to being a Cup contender. And they’re incredibly hard to draft or acquire.

We’ve been a franchise for 30 years and have had two - Yashin and Spezza.

There’s no guarantee someone will just step up. We have to actively go out and take some risks to get one.

We need Brown to develop quickly, or we need to trade him for value if we don’t think he’s the guy.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Having a legitimate #1 center is crucial to being a Cup contender. And they’re incredibly hard to draft or acquire.

We’ve been a franchise for 30 years and have had two - Yashin and Spezza.

There’s no guarantee someone will just step up. We have to actively go out and take some risks to get one.

We need Brown to develop quickly, or we need to trade him for value if we don’t think he’s the guy.

Dorion could move a couple 3rd line C's to have a better chance at a #1C.

 

[Boud]

I don't think we should be too worried for Brown right now. Let him realize that's he's not ready yet and that he needs to work on his strenght and pace. If next year he comes in and shows he isn't ready then I'll start to be worried.

Also I don't think his speed/pace is THAT bad, it looks worse because he's a giant.

 

[Sens]

Dude has 18Pts in 13AHL games and he’s a bust... good to know lol

 

[Matsens15]

Dude has 18Pts in 13AHL games and he’s a bust... good to know lol

And he’s only 21 years old lol!!

 

[Sweatred]

Integrating Brown has been difficult. We lack on ice offensive skill and especially PP skill. The Sens PP is worse without him but never good enough with him. Pager and Duc are not your typical creative offensive players.

I’m not sure where the 2020 skill will come from. Maybe Bath, maybe a FA, maybe a 2020 pick but Brown needs some to help drive and finish some creative plays.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Brown was always the type of guy who needed serious seasoning before making an impact. It was clear as day from the start. Guy is more raw than Zibanejad and that's saying something.

Keep him down the rest of this year and even half of next year. This guy is the equivalent to Mantha but just a centre. Look at how they took care of him and the trajectory Mantha took, do the same to Brown.

 

[jbeck5]

I wouldn't worry too much about Brown.

Tall players often take a bit longer to develop as their development can often stall during growth spurt years as a teen as they adjust to coordination.

The time to start worrying is when Brown's production starts to plateau. As it stands, he keeps making steady strides every year.

He had 42 points in 56 games in the AHL last year.
He has 18 points in 13 games in the AHL this year. Big improvement in ppg.

He had 1 point in 6 NHL games coming into this year.
He has 8 points in 23 games this year. Big improvement in ppg.

Id be patient with him and see if he can keep improving his numbers as he gets accustomed to the pro leagues.

 

[GCK]

Brown was always the type of guy who needed serious seasoning before making an impact. It was clear as day from the start. Guy is more raw than Zibanejad and that's saying something.

Keep him down the rest of this year and even half of next year. This guy is the equivalent to Mantha but just a centre. Look at how they took care of him and the trajectory Mantha took, do the same to Brown.

Mantha is a fantastic comparison. You are giving me hope.

 

[aragorn]

I think Logan Brown will be a very good centre for this team at some point down the road, he will never be a super aggressive player but a much more cerebral player & playmaker who will always have more assists than goals. He just needs an aggressive player to do the dirty work on his line & a goal scorer to finish his passes. I also think he will be a full time player next season. Mantha is a lot tougher than Logan but both are big guys who can produce offensively, Mantha is the better goal scorer & Brown the better passer & playmaker.

 

[SensFan1010]

I think Logan Brown will be a very good centre for this team at some point down the road, he will never be a super aggressive player but a much more cerebral player & playmaker who will always have more assists than goals. He just needs an aggressive player to do the dirty work on his line & a goal scorer to finish his passes. I also think he will be a full time player next season. Mantha is a lot tougher than Logan but both are big guys who can produce offensively, Mantha is the better goal scorer & Brown the better passer & playmaker.

Where would you slot Brown as 1C, top 6, mid 6 ??

 

[Cosmix]

Detroit saving us from being last isn't exactly saving us... when dorion said the worst was behind us I don't think he meant we wont finish last or we wont be bottom of the league again.. of course we would be.

Dorion saying the worst is behind us is simply PR spin. It’s a follow up to saying the team will take a big step forward and will be vastly improved.

I don't think theres any declaration of success, weve just not hated this year.

 

[Cosmix]

Where would you slot Brown as 1C, top 6, mid 6 ??

L. Brown’s upside has fallen to 2C for me. His bottom is AHL but I expect him to be a 3C now. I am being pessimistic due to his recent failure to grab a spot on the roster.