2020 USports Playoffs
- Thread starter FreddyFoyle
- Start date
AdamMcg83
Registered User
Is there any point in having a top-10 at any point, since it's just a statistical formula now?
FreddyFoyle
Registered User
Point well taken, but the rankings influence the seedings for the UCup. The rules state that the AUS, CanWest, OUAEast and OUAWest champs have to be seeded 1 through 4 based on the final weekly rankings. This is the first year the computer makes that call all by itself (it was 50% human, 50% computer last year).
FreddyFoyle
Registered User
As suspected, the Top 10 this week features ONLY the teams still surviving in the playoffs. Five non-ranked teams suddenly appear in the chart this week. Nice to know ya Alberta.
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[TBODY] [/TBODY]* Rankings and playoff records do not include AUS semifinal games played on Monday, Feb. 24
| RANK | SCHOOL | REGULAR SEASON RECORD | PLAYOFF RECORD | ELO | PREVIOUS RANKING |
| 1 | UNB | 26-4-0 | 2-0* | 1936.49 | 1 |
| 2 | Saskatchewan | 22-4-2 | 2-0 | 1825.69 | 2 |
| 3 | Guelph | 17-6-5 | 4-1 | 1724.69 | 5 |
| 4 | Ottawa | 17-7-4 | 4-2 | 1660.20 | 10 |
| 5 | Concordia | 13-10-5 | 4-1 | 1642.77 | NR |
| 6 | Acadia | 19-9-2 | 2-0* | 1638.03 | NR |
| 7 | Western | 11-13-4 | 4-2 | 1583.08 | NR |
| 8 | Moncton | 13-11-6 | 2-2* | 1546.66 | NR |
| 9 | UBC | 9-14-5 | 4-2 | 1533.23 | NR |
| 10 | Saint Mary’s | 17-12-1 | 2-2* | 1528.32 | 9 |
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UNB Bruins Fan
Registered User
Sucks for Alberta as they had a lengthy top ten streak going...
I find it hard to believe Alberta and Carleton went from 1720+ in ELO last week to less than 1520 this week. No way they drop that much after a 1-2-0 week in the regular season. Part of me wonders if they just removed the non-playoff teams all together.
I find it hard to believe Alberta and Carleton went from 1720+ in ELO last week to less than 1520 this week. No way they drop that much after a 1-2-0 week in the regular season. Part of me wonders if they just removed the non-playoff teams all together.
Last edited:
dm8895
V-Reds , McJesus Stan , Beer Leaguer
Are playoff games weighted more heavily than regular season games in determining the rankings?
FreddyFoyle
Registered User
FreddyFoyle
Registered User
Can confirm. AUS Men's finals will be Monday-Wednesday-Friday (if necessary). Women's Finals will be Tuesday-Thursday-Saturday (if necessary). If there is a men's runner-up series, it will also be Monday-Wednesday-Friday (if necessary).
The new ELO rankings are a joke and set up to prop up the horsecrap OUA.
The Old media voting system allowed for a real analysis from people that were committed to Usports hockey and knew the AUS and CW had considerably better teams, which was reinforced year at Nationals over the last several years when they dominated OUA.
Alberta and frankly Carleton should still be in the Top 10.
4 of the top 7 teams, including two unranked coming from the OUA just reinforces the sheer absurdity of the ELO system.
The Old media voting system allowed for a real analysis from people that were committed to Usports hockey and knew the AUS and CW had considerably better teams, which was reinforced year at Nationals over the last several years when they dominated OUA.
Alberta and frankly Carleton should still be in the Top 10.
4 of the top 7 teams, including two unranked coming from the OUA just reinforces the sheer absurdity of the ELO system.
Acadia vs UNB - Mon, Wed and Friday (if necessary)
Moncton vs SMU - Mon, Wed and Friday (if necessary)
My suggestion is that a regional weight be applied based on performance of conference at last three nationals. That would provide a conference lens to otherwise uncomparable leagues.
Drummer
Better Red than Dead
Basic/Standard ELO math does not lend itself to drastic moves. The starting point for most ELO solutions is to have a maximum movement of 32 points for every 400 units of ELO between opponents. So, you can't drop more than 32 points of ELO for a loss to a team that is 400 ELO below you (and you can't gain more than 32 points for a win over a team that is 400 ELO ahead of you). At best, in a two-game sweep - an upset winner (more than 400 ELO below the higher seed) only gains 64 points while the higher seed would lose no more than 64.
As such, CAR and ALB at >1700 would still be in the 1600s or low 1700s despite their series losses. So, they were obviously removed. And... ELO starts at 1500 for all teams and to have 4 teams just above 1500 means they are just barely above 'average'. I find it hard to believe that Alberta is 'below average'.
You are right though on removing a team - ALB had a 167 week Ranking streak wiped out as a result. Some would say, they don't derive it - if you can't win, you're out. But if the rankings are to measure relative strength - it should keep doing that despite a playoff series loss.
Unless it is used to determine which teams get into the University Cup, the Top 10 is utterly meaningless. All it does it get people steamed (hello, Bob).
If they want to re-rank the 8 finalists prior to the start of the University Cup, then just post a Top-8 once all the Conference Championships are done. Otherwise, forget it.
AUS Fan
Registered User
UNB Bruins Fan
Registered User
AUS Fan
Registered User
Based on latest ranking, where Concordia and Western are both ahead of SMU (prior to SMU's series loss to Acadia) even being included... even if Guelph & Ottawa win their conference, the winner of Western/Concordia should theoretically end up ahead of SMU in the final ELO Rankings. Seeding would look like this (assuming UNB & Sask win)
1. UNB
2. SASK
3. OUA 1
4. OUA 2
5. ACADIA
6. UBC
7. CONCORDIA/WESTERN
8. SMU
AUS Fan
Registered User
Won't work because 2 teams from same conference Do Not play each other in game #1. So OUA 3 will get seeded #8. Of course, should ACA win over UNB and/or UBC over UofS the scenario would be completely different. But that was not my scenario.
Rob
Registered User
The tournament organizers must really have their fingers crossed that SMU knocks out Moncton next week. I wouldn't say it would be a disaster to only have one Nova Scotia team but it would definitely hurt attendance. They would have to get at least two games out of Acadia.
UNB Bruins Fan
Registered User
Alberta and Lethbridge played in the first round last year...but in that case there was no way you could justify Lethbridge at 7 and Carleton at 8.
In this case you can absolutely argue SMU is better (or at least the same) as Western/Concordia so yeah, I can’t imagine they would be seeded 8th.
AUS Fan
Registered User
You're right. I should have realized that because I was there. And I agree with your reasoning.
Drummer
Better Red than Dead
The Seeding Committee does have the latitude to swap 7/8 even in the case of last year's ALB/LTH matchup, but I believe Lethbridge wanted the dragon they knew better and might have had a chance against. Lethbridge's 8-3 loss at Christmas was enough for them to know that ALB was likely the easier of the two to play (0-4 record with scores of 2-5, 3-4OT, 0-6, 5-9).
The wording of the rule makes no mention of 'strength of opponent'. Statistically speaking, they are relatively the same. Maybe not always the case in the real world though. This year, with AUS3 and OUA3 both playing their way into the tournament - they are better 'equals' and swapping them wouldn't be a hard sell. I definitely expect SMU/UdeM in 7th (my money is on SMU) if (or when) UNB is #1.
Drummer
Better Red than Dead
To extend my comments from yesterday - since it's a mathematical formula, why not publish the full USPORTS ELO list from 1 to 32. We all know DAL and RMC are week and ALB and UNB are strong and a whole lot in the middle. This isn't a new revelation - so report the whole list and market the top 10. USCHO publishes a top 20 (4 past the sweet 16 number), USAToday goes to 15 and NCAA RPI is the entire 60 team league.
AUS Fan
Registered User
I'm of the opinion that LETH wanted to play UofA for the gate. I'm unable to find any box scores from last year because the CIS site is awful.
