Speculation: 2020 Offseason

[Minnesnota]

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

no shit there isn’t

 

[Digitalbooya]

Khovanov could be if everything goes right... Also, saying that prime Koivu wasn’t a 1C is interesting to say the least. Dude cracked 70 with Brunette and Miettinen lol...

 

[MuckOG]

Khovanov could be if everything goes right... Also, saying that prime Koivu wasn’t a 1C is interesting to say the least. Dude cracked 70 with Brunette and Miettinen lol...

I agree with Russo. Without spending alot of time checking status, I'm thinking that most players that are viewed as legitimate 1Cs have more than just one 70 point season on their resume.

I view Koivu as a legit 2C during his prime, then after his prime a top notch 3C.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Prime Koivu was.

 

[thestonedkoala]

I agree with Russo. Without spending alot of time checking status, I'm thinking that most players that are viewed as legitimate 1Cs have more than just one 70 point season on their resume.

I think it's more than that; rarely does a number 1 center score less than 20 goals a season consistently and generally their best seasons they put up 30+ goals. Koivu never even sniffed that (and I understand injuries, but that's how the dice rolled on Koivu. We knew that the big guy had injury problems even back in Finland).

 

[Digitalbooya]

I agree with Russo. Without spending alot of time checking status, I'm thinking that most players that are viewed as legitimate 1Cs have more than just one 70 point season on their resume.

I view Koivu as a legit 2C during his prime, then after his prime a top notch 3C.

Stick prime Koivu with the same wingers that those “legitimate 1Cs” got to play with and there wouldn’t be a doubt in anyone’s mind he was a 1C.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Stick prime Koivu with the same wingers that those “legitimate 1Cs” got to play with and there wouldn’t be a doubt in anyone’s mind he was a 1C.

If I recall, Koivu played with Miettinen and Brunette because those were the only players he could work with. It wasn't until Granlund and Zucker came along that Koivu got some wingers to work with...

But what is prime Koivu? 24-30? So six years?

In 2007-2008, the line up consisted of: Gaborik, Rolston, Parrish, Demitra and Bouchard.

in 2008-2009, the line up was terrible but Brunette, Nolan, Bouchard, Mitts.

in 2009-2010, again they had Brunette, Mittinen, Nolan and they brought in Kobasew, Latendresse, and Havlat.

In 2010-2011, they had a pretty bad line up in Havlat, Brunette, Bouchard, and uh...Kobasew and Clutterbuck?

in 2011-2012, they brought in Heater, Setoguchi. It's kind of funny, but Brodziak tied career high in goals at 22 this year with Koivu.

in 2012-2013, half a season with Parise, Setoguchi, Heatley, Coyle, Granlund, Pominville and Zucker.

Yeah, so in 08-09, and in 10-11, they weren't good rosters.

BTW, Koivu did play with some legitimate scorers: Kobasew saw 20+ goals in Boston. Setoguchi was a huge star in San Jose. Heatley may have fallen off the cliff, but he had scored 64 points in San Jose along with 26 goals. Brunette scored a sneaky 27 goals and 83 points in Colorado.

Also would you consider Paul Statsny or David Krejci a 1st line center?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

For 8 years, from age 23 to 30, Koivu was a 19 goal, 47 assist, 66 point per 82 game center that regularly garnered Selke votes. He was a #1C caliber player with very average line mates that ran into some injury troubles along the way.

 

[thestonedkoala]

He was a #1C caliber player with very average line mates that ran into some injury troubles along the way.

Injury problems was always the issue with Koivu even before he got to the NHL; but as you point out that 19 goals is what is killer here. He only scored 20+ goals in 3 of his 13 seasons here (discounting the lockout and his rookie season). That's less than a quarter of his career. The 60+ points he put up is a good argument, but that's average - his real numbers are lower.

Also would you consider Ryan Kesler a first line center? He also put up Selke numbers.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

Stick prime Koivu with the same wingers that those “legitimate 1Cs” got to play with and there wouldn’t be a doubt in anyone’s mind he was a 1C.

Koivu in his 71 point year was just as good as Barkov this year. The difference is Barkov was playing with Huberdeau and Dadanov and Kouiv has Brunette and Miettinen

 

[grN1g]

Not throw throw shade on Brunette but his best was with a post prime Brunette, and a mittens.

Sorry Koivu and I hope you don't regret anything.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Koivu in his 71 point year was just as good as Barkov this year. The difference is Barkov was playing with Huberdeau and Dadanov and Kouiv has Brunette and Miettinen

Brunette managed to rattle off: 23 goals and 27 assists for 50 points in Atlanta. He had his career year in Colorado (I think he played with Stastny) and managed to score 27 goals and 56 assists for 83 points. Brunette is not as bad as everyone think's he is. He managed to carve out a 16 year career with an average of 54 points a season. He managed to score 20 goals per 82 games.

Mitts was just a third center tweener, but for some odd reason Koivu had better chemistry with him than Havlat...Bouchard - anyone else on the roster.

Not throw throw shade on Brunette but his best was with a post prime Brunette, and a mittens.

Prime Brunette was actually when he was in his mid to late 20s to his mid 30s.

 

[grN1g]

Huh Look at that I didn't even realize Bruno was with us before the avs I wasn't a fan as much back then until I saw him in the avs jersey is when I was beginning to get into it.

Bruno and Koivu were perfect linemates for each other and they could make anyone with decent IQ and shot to smash home one timers a better player from their dominate wear you down cycle game. Bruno being and excellent hand eye tipper made the line buzz more from the point shots aswell.

 

[Spurgeon]

If O'Reilly is considered to be a 1C, I don't see how Koivu in his prime wasn't one. We also get a couple years of 1C play from Staal. Beyond that though, this team has never had an exciting center prospect that panned out.

 

[grN1g]

How about in 3 hours we celebrate Laff. Then we trade Dumba+ Greenway + Kunin + pitt/our 21 1sts for Barkov cause he's going to walk.

Laff Barkov Fiala
Kap Ek Zucc
Parise Staal Hartman
Foligno Sturm Mayhew?

Extend Barkov to 9x8

Suter Spurgeon
Brodin(5.5) Menell/Addison
Soucy Menell/Addison
Belpeido

Menell/belpeido (1m each)

KK(1m)
Stalock

Roughly 10~11m with a dub buyout penalty in the 21 season and no cap increase i believe and this is before Rask could more easily be moved or bought off the books in the 21 off season with 1 year left. Should be enough to be able to cover Fiala and Kap deals and some money left over. Specially if we do a mid Bridge deal with Kap for a year or 2.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

How about in 3 hours we celebrate Laff. Then we trade Dumba+ Greenway + Kunin + pitt/our 21 1sts for Barkov cause he's going to walk.

Laff Barkov Fiala
Kap Ek Zucc
Parise Staal Hartman
Foligno Sturm Mayhew?

Extend Barkov to 9x8

Suter Spurgeon
Brodin(5.5) Menell/Addison
Soucy Menell/Addison
Belpeido

Menell/belpeido (1m each)

KK(1m)
Stalock

Roughly 10~11m with a dub buyout penalty in the 21 season and no cap increase i believe and this is before Rask could more easily be moved or bought off the books in the 21 off season with 1 year left. Should be enough to be able to cover Fiala and Kap deals and some money left over. Specially if we do a mid Bridge deal with Kap for a year or 2.

Wishful thinking on that Barkov extension.

 

[thestonedkoala]

If O'Reilly is considered to be a 1C, I don't see how Koivu in his prime wasn't one. We also get a couple years of 1C play from Staal. Beyond that though, this team has never had an exciting center prospect that panned out.

I really don't want to continue this road, but for a long time O'Reilly was seen as a quality top-6 center. In Colorado he played behind Statsny and Duchene. In Buffalo, he was to support Eichel. It wasn't until St. Louis (and his 77 point season) that people started seeing him as a top line center. But more to your point; I also think the goals have helped. He's been a pretty consistent 20+ goal scorer and I think his playoff points have helped cement him as a top line center. He has 33 points in 42 games.

 

[nickschultzfan]

If not Laf, Guerin should trade up for Rossi. Pay what it takes. Don't feel bad about it.

Then it is just about buying out players.

And trying to trade Zucc for an overpaid goalie.

 

[AKL]

I wonder, if we end up with 9th and Pittsburgh decided to send us 15th because they don't want to send an unprotected 1st, how far could we actually move up with just those two.
Anaheim could be interested at 6th, as their prospect pool is somewhat barren outside of a few guys.
NJ has the 7th, but they also have two more picks later on, they may prefer to get their guy at 7th rather than what's left at 9th just to add another mid 1st. It's also a question of if it's worth it for us.
Buffalo would surely do it, but it wouldn't be worth it for us.

Do you get Ottawa to bite on the 5th, or Detroit to bite on the 4th? Ottawa has 3rd, so they still get their potential 1C, along with a chance to add another very good player at 9 and another solid prospect at 15. Detroit needs a high end guy so I doubt they go for it.

And how many spots would we need to be able to move to make it worth it for us, assuming you're not quite sure how the top 8 will go. A guy we like could fall to us or we could be left with "scraps".

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Somebody on the trade boards said it would basically be a 2nd rounder to jump from 9 to 7. Just math-wise, changing the 2nd rounder to #15 should at least get to 5.

But Ottawa also has a ton of draft picks the next couple years and a pretty deep prospect pool as it sits now. I don't know why they'd want to jump back and get more.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Somebody on the trade boards said it would basically be a 2nd rounder to jump from 9 to 7. Just math-wise, changing the 2nd rounder to #15 should at least get to 5.

Possibly. The top 5 are in its own special category and I think the last time someone moved from outside the top 5, it was Toronto when they moved from the 7th slot to the 5th slot. And that cost the Leafs a conditional 2nd AND 3rd. I could see it (9th + 15th for the 3rd or 5th pick).

But Ottawa also has a ton of draft picks the next couple years and a pretty deep prospect pool as it sits now. I don't know why they'd want to jump back and get more.

Because of the owner. Why pay for expensive players when prospects.

 

[AKL]

Possibly. The top 5 are in its own special category and I think the last time someone moved from outside the top 5, it was Toronto when they moved from the 7th slot to the 5th slot. And that cost the Leafs a conditional 2nd AND 3rd. I could see it (9th + 15th for the 3rd or 5th pick).



Because of the owner. Why pay for expensive players when prospects.

There is no "top 5". There are like 5 players who could all go 4 and 5 without anyone blinking

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Possibly. The top 5 are in its own special category and I think the last time someone moved from outside the top 5, it was Toronto when they moved from the 7th slot to the 5th slot. And that cost the Leafs a conditional 2nd AND 3rd. I could see it (9th + 15th for the 3rd or 5th pick).



Because of the owner. Why pay for expensive players when prospects.

They player that they'll take at 5 won't be expensive.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

I’m comfortable at 9, personally. I’d rather have the extra 1st. I’m not super sold that whomever goes at 5 is better than the guy at 9. 5 would garaunteed is Rossi, though.