2020 Offseason Thread Part III

[Ghosts Beer]

You rarely see an offense first player suddenly commit to becoming a two way player.
Sidney did, but he was never that bad defensively.
Nico, Barzal play a two way game at a young age.
Kane still wonders what the fuss is about defense and back checking.

My theory with offense first players is you want to keep them until their big contract looms, then trade them at their maximum value, because when their scoring starts to decline under a big, long-term deal, they can quickly become an anchor pulling down your team.

I kind of like that theory.

 

[TB87]

SHOOT FIRST SNIPER ON THE WING

 

[The Madrigal]

36
44
30
28 in 68 games

Those are Laine's goal totals over his first four seasons and he is only 22. Essentially he has scored 30 or more goals in each of his first four seasons. Flyers fans have been complaining for years that the team is lacking a legit sniper and rightfully so. Now one is potentially available and some people are against trading for him. Makes sense.

 

[BernieParent]

Laine for Ghost and JVR. Ooof

Oof for whom? I'm not a huge Laine fan but that immensely favours the Flyers.

 

[BernieParent]

I am disappointed in the lack of Hagg's in these trade proposals.

When you post about something valuable you want to purchase, you don't usually calculate its cost in Monopoly money.

 

[BigToe]

Say no to Laine
Say no to re-signing dinosaur UFAs
Say no to signing other dinosaur UFAs
Say no to overpaying for AP
Say no to trading Ghost
Say no to Provorov on pp1
Say no to counting on Patrick

Say yes to firing Michel Therrien
Say yes to Ghost on pp1
Say yes to a full time spot for Frost

Say maybe to trading JVR
Say maybe to re-signing Moose

It’s so simple

 

[BernieParent]

I feel like it’s not necessarily a sniper we’re missing. It’s someone with a killer instinct and finisher mentality.

Our players, the whole lot of them, seem to be happy just forcing passes all game long.

NAK was a notable exception most of the time.

I'm going to understand your post as saying that you covet someone who is always looking to get the puck into high-danger opportunities and isn't afraid to be selfish. For me, a shoot-first mentality is as bad as a pass-first one because both players are easier to defend against than someone who can quickly read the best option(s).

 

[deadhead]

If Meltzer means Brink's ceiling as a pure sNyPeRr isn't as high, maybe, maybe, maybe I'll let it slide. CC does have a crazy, lethal shot. Other than that, I obviously think he's wrong.

Brink's overall offensive ceiling is higher. That was my stance pre-draft, and remains my opinion now. His 2nd half of the year was straight fire. He looked dominant very often.

Unfortunately for Brink, the French Hak connection may be his future coaches. Julien will likely use CC properly, just like he did with Suzuki. The French Hak's will do something deranged, like play NAK on the PP over Brink. The only hope is Chuck's Minnesota nepotism can save him.

Caufield to me is the next DeBrincat.

DeBrincat can score, 22, 28 and 8 ES goals (Sh% was 5.0% at ES this season, probably an aberration).
xGF: 49.40%, 46.31%, 47.00%
Now as I've pointed out, xGF tends to underestimate the value of scorers, but even so, it's obvious he's far less valuable than his raw scoring stats would indicate.

Now he's also a PP scorer, but his xGF/60 rates don't jump out, 5.26, 6.59, 7.27.
That is, he's doing better on raw stats than his team is doing with him on the ice.

Problem is, contract time, those raw stats will weigh more heavily than the story told by the advanced metrics, and he'll be grossly overpaid relative to his contribution to winning games.

 

[BritainStix]

Oof for whom? I'm not a huge Laine fan but that immensely favours the Flyers.

I thought that was obvious. My bad.

 

[achdumeingute]

Ok substitute Laine for Ehlers and are we all over it?

don't need a LW. If Vancouver is seriously moving Boeser I'd be interested in that...assuming we could move jake (age/contract is only reason) for assets.

 

[Bigkarl]

Laine is pretty good. He just turned 22 and he's already scored 140 NHL goals. I get the concerns, though.

and that “pretty good” player is the one you want to trade Sanheim+Frost+dump JVR+ give a massive extension to?

 

[BernieParent]

I thought that was obvious. My bad.

A rule of social media: There is no such thing as "obvious."

 

[Rebels57]

36
44
30
28 in 68 games

Those are Laine's goal totals over his first four seasons and he is only 22. Essentially he has scored 30 or more goals in each of his first four seasons. Flyers fans have been complaining for years that the team is lacking a legit sniper and rightfully so. Now one is potentially available and some people are against trading for him. Makes sense.

And he gives back every one of those goals and then some. Plus he needs a new contract after next season and will likely ask for $9-10 million.

You dont want to pay a one-dimensional player with poor work ethic that much money.

 

[Striiker]

Madrigal and wanting bad trades

Name a more iconic combo.

I'll also add that the people freaking out that we need a "sniper" for years are not the people who have a good grasp on player evaluation or how to build a team. We don't desperately need a sniper. People are just obsessed with that stereotype. If people actually cared that much about goal scoring as a primary skill then they wouldn't hate JVR.

 

[flyersnorth]

36
44
30
28 in 68 games

Those are Laine's goal totals over his first four seasons and he is only 22. Essentially he has scored 30 or more goals in each of his first four seasons. Flyers fans have been complaining for years that the team is lacking a legit sniper and rightfully so. Now one is potentially available and some people are against trading for him. Makes sense.

I do wonder about his character, and how it integrates in the locker room.

He seems a little bit more honest about things, and some people might not like that honesty.

I have no idea if some of the things being written about are true, and to what extent it's a problem on and off the ice. But to me if everything we hear about how tight this group of guys are, and how this is the closest group many of these have played on - then Laine's personality, character, and tendencies become more important in the decision than they might otherwise be.

Or maybe it's a non-issue. Locker room bros just hugging it out, and it's the media and fans making huge stories over nothing.

The trade's worth exploring for sure.

 

[flyersnorth]

I'm going to understand your post as saying that you covet someone who is always looking to get the puck into high-danger opportunities and isn't afraid to be selfish. For me, a shoot-first mentality is as bad as a pass-first one because both players are easier to defend against than someone who can quickly read the best option(s).

I hear what you're saying. Usually those are like bottom sixers.

I would say what I meant was that one of our 'better' players having that mentality would be nice. TK is close. I think he was more shoot-first last season, but maybe COVID is making me misremember this season lol.

Playoff TK was guilty of overpassing. Making strange decisions when in a position for a high danger chance.

 

[BernieParent]

I hear what you're saying. Usually those are like bottom sixers.

I would say what I meant was that one of our 'better' players having that mentality would be nice. TK is close. I think he was more shoot-first last season, but maybe COVID is making me misremember this season lol.

Playoff TK was guilty of overpassing. Making strange decisions when in a position for a high danger chance.

True enough. I should have distinguished between shoot-first and shoot-only.

 

[BritainStix]

And he gives back every one of those goals and then some. Plus he needs a new contract after next season and will likely ask for $9-10 million.

You dont want to pay a one-dimensional player with poor work ethic that much money.

Sooo JVR lol.

 

[Striiker]

Of our 20 skaters with 200+ min at 5v5 this year, JVR had the...

7th best CA/60
3rd best xGA/60
8th best GA/60
2nd best HDCA/60
5th best HDGA/60

With a normal on-ice sv%

If he were as detrimental as people suggest, that wouldn't be possible.

Add to that some of the best possession stats on the team and good offensive production.

6th best CF%
1st best xGF%
1st best HDCF%
4th best goals/60
5th best points/60
3rd best shots/60
1st best ixG/60
1st best iHDCF/60

But stereotypes are everything.

 

[captainpaxil]

Tk and farabee are both speedy snipers. Why do we need a third with jvr a pretty shoot first player being another option?

Cooter hayes and Patrick are big two way centers.

If this team has a deficiency it's the huge age gap between g and voracek and our next playmaker.

Nearly all of these players have strong secondary skills all of whom are superior to laine in that department and cheaper

I could understand the pitch for geudreau but laine is too much of a one trick pony

 

[DancingPanther]

If this team has a deficiency it's the huge age gap between g and voracek and our next playmaker.

Frost does the hockey

 

[Tripod]

Frost does the hockey

A Flyers fan who shall remained nameless, said they would trade Frost and Sanheim for Nylander.

That was his "adjustment" to a Myers+Farabee for Nylander offer.

(main boards fun)

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

A Flyers fan who shall remained nameless, said they would trade Frost and Sanheim for Nylander.

That was his "adjustment" to a Myers+Farabee for Nylander offer.

(main boards fun)

jeeez

 

[KrazyKat]

I would love to move on from JVR,
Sell High on Laughton.
And also think a guy like Gaudreau would be worth a pitch (1st round pick + prospect) or JVR / Laughton involved.


Lindblom-Couturier-Konecny
Giroux-Frost-Voracek
Gaudreau-Hayes-Farabee
Sandin-Patrick-NAK

Provorov-Myers
Sanheim-Niskanen
Freidman-Gostisbehere
(Hagg)

Hart
Elliott

 

[DancingPanther]

Gudreau? More like heck neau