2020 Offseason Thread Part III

[BernieParent]

Damn everyone has a scout source.

My scout source said she isn't very high on Allison or Laczynski. And then she sold me 3 boxes of cookies.

 

[Flyer lurker]

My scout source said she isn't very high on Allison or Laczynski. And then she sold me 3 boxes of cookies.

MMM Lemonades!!!!

 

[BritainStix]

Laine for Ghost and JVR. Ooof

 

[OzFlyers]

I am disappointed in the lack of Hagg's in these trade proposals.

 

[tucson83]

I have absolutely zero interest in trading significant (or any) assets for Laine

Players who need their teammates to do pretty much everything for them aren’t all that valuable

when giroux and jake eventually lose their production, who do you build around? i swear your pipe dreams over prospects replacing talent is what's going to be the downfall of this team but of course the blame will be on the current coaches and gms if it they are not Sidney crosby and hextall gets a free pass.

 

[Chinatown88]

 

[Psuhockey]

when giroux and jake eventually lose their production, who do you build around? i swear your pipe dreams over prospects replacing talent is what's going to be the downfall of this team but of course the blame will be on the current coaches and gms if it they are not Sidney crosby and hextall gets a free pass.

The problem with a Laine trade won’t be the actual cost of the trade: it’s as always going to be way less than people think. The problem with a Laine trade is the salary cap; not even this year but next year. The Flyers are going to have to move two of JVR, Giroux, Hayes or Voracek to make it work. Hayes isn’t going anywhere. So if as you say Giroux and Voracek’s production is going fall off soon, who is going to want them?

 

[TCTC]

Laine at 6.7 million would be fine, but I definitely don't want us to pay him 10 million or whatever he thinks he's worth.

 

[Prongo]

Maybe his ask for 10 million is just what he wants to sign in Winnipeg? Might be more willing to compromise elsewhere.

 

[deadhead]

The problem with a Laine trade is he isn't that good. Last two seasons E +/- of -10.3, -10.4, now b/c he's a skilled scorer, those numbers are skewed downward (he scores more than expected) but are still bad.

Notice TB is in the SC Finals without Stamkos, Toronto didn't make the playoffs with JT, Nylander and Marner?
Scorers have value, but they're almost always grossly overrated.

Flyers were 8th in goals scored last season, they're not an offensively challenged team.
And that was without Lindblom for most of the season.
TB scored 16 more goals, Dallas 54 fewer goals.

Voracek 69g 8-31 39 at ES
Giroux 69g 13-18 31 at ES
JVR 66g 15-16 31 at ES

Those kind of numbers can be replaced by solid prospects, what kind of numbers do you think Frost, Brink and Farabee (when he grows up) will provide?

The combination of assets required, the cost of a new contract, and the potential detrimental impact on the clubhouse of a player who puts stats ahead of winning, makes this a bad move.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/patrik-laine-nhl-jets-winnipeg-1.5286365

 

[FlyguyOX]

Ok substitute Laine for Ehlers and are we all over it?

 

[Striiker]

@Stizzle

 

[flyersnorth]

I feel like it’s not necessarily a sniper we’re missing. It’s someone with a killer instinct and finisher mentality.

Our players, the whole lot of them, seem to be happy just forcing passes all game long.

NAK was a notable exception most of the time.

 

[Striiker]

when giroux and jake eventually lose their production, who do you build around? i swear your pipe dreams over prospects replacing talent is what's going to be the downfall of this team but of course the blame will be on the current coaches and gms if it they are not Sidney crosby and hextall gets a free pass.

The best part of this horrible clueless post is that tucson really doesn't realize that the way that teams get a Crosby or Malkin or Ovechkin or Giroux or Matthews or Marner or McDavid or Eichel or Point or Kucherov or Stamkos or Barzal or MacKinnon or Rantanen or Pettersson or Marchand or Kane or Scheifele or Pasternak or Gaudreau is by drafting them. I could keep naming players but we get the point.

Every single one of those players are playing for the team that drafted them. Not a single one was added through a trade or free agency after they were already what they are today.

 

[deadhead]

Giroux and Voracek are pass first, TK can be at times which is good and bad, you want your shooter(s) to be selfish, but not too selfish, i.e. don't be afraid to shoot to the point where you force bad passes, but don't become mono-focused to the point you ignore wide open linemates.

Lindblom, Couts, Hayes and JVR are danger area muckers who can finish there.
Frost can shoot and pass, so can Farabee, when they grow up they'll put up big numbers, same with Brink.
NAK has a good shot, so does Twarynski, if they have centers to set them up.

Allison, Laczynski, Sushko, Sandin should be able to provide some offense in the bottom six.

And don't forget in today's NHL (just look at the playoffs), mobile defensemen who can jump into the play and can score are more important than ever, and the Flyers have Provorov, Sanheim, Myers and maybe Ghost, with York on the way.

So the Flyers really don't need an elite scorer if they can roll three lines that can score and an energy line that can capitalize on the turnovers it generates, and at least one defenseman on every pair that can slip into the play and score. It's harder to shut down a team that scores by committee than one dependent on a couple players.

 

[BiggE]

Say no to Laine
Say no to re-signing dinosaur UFAs
Say no to signing other dinosaur UFAs
Say no to overpaying for AP
Say no to trading Ghost
Say no to Provorov on pp1
Say no to counting on Patrick

Say yes to firing Michel Therrien
Say yes to Ghost on pp1
Say yes to a full time spot for Frost

Say maybe to trading JVR
Say maybe to re-signing Moose

 

[pacehimself]

Only reason they go after a player like Laine, is to give Giroux someone with some finish. To me, it would be somewhat similar to Mcnabb getting T.O for a couple years...they see the window closing for an incredible playmaker Giroux, and would want to take one last shot at getting him a goal scorer. I don’t see it happening though, the flyers value a two way game too much to have a player that doesn’t contribute defensively.

All things aside (cap, trade value etc), it would be great to see an aging Giroux get someone that could compliment his game. Who knows, maybe Laine needs a change of scenery with a new coaching staff to make him more of a complete player

 

[TB87]

Players who need their teammates to do absolutely everything for them in the OZ aren’t that valuable.

I can 100% guarantee that fans would turn on him within a few weeks. If he were acquired that is. He rarely gets loose pucks himself, floats/cheats defensively, is a maybe average passer, doesn’t drive play (shot attempts AND line driving), & he’s pretty much a non-factor in the cycle game & in 50/50 battles.


I don’t see the appeal, I don’t see the lineup fit, & I mainly don’t see the point in adding a player of his ilk.

 

[deadhead]

You rarely see an offense first player suddenly commit to becoming a two way player.
Sidney did, but he was never that bad defensively.
Nico, Barzal play a two way game at a young age.
Kane still wonders what the fuss is about defense and back checking.

My theory with offense first players is you want to keep them until their big contract looms, then trade them at their maximum value, because when their scoring starts to decline under a big, long-term deal, they can quickly become an anchor pulling down your team.

 

[pacehimself]

You rarely see an offense first player suddenly commit to becoming a two way player.
Sidney did, but he was never that bad defensively.
Nico, Barzal play a two way game at a young age.
Kane still wonders what the fuss is about defense and back checking.

My theory with offense first players is you want to keep them until their big contract looms, then trade them at their maximum value, because when their scoring starts to decline under a big, long-term deal, they can quickly become an anchor pulling down your team.

I’m just playing devils advocate and trying to put any interest into perspective. I think the front office has been trying to get a “goal scorer” for Giroux for years. Hence the JVR signing.

 

[deadhead]

I’m just playing devils advocate and trying to put any interest into perspective. I think the front office has been trying to get a “goal scorer” for Giroux for years. Hence the JVR signing.

Couts has 24, 24 and 18 ES goals the last three years, TK 23, 23 and 19, JVR 25, 19, 15.
Laine has 24, 15, and 20 ES goals, Ehlers 22, 19, 21.

Voracek is more of a passer, but Giroux has a good shot, he needs to shoot more.

 

[Stizzle]

@Stizzle

If Meltzer means Brink's ceiling as a pure sNyPeRr isn't as high, maybe, maybe, maybe I'll let it slide. CC does have a crazy, lethal shot. Other than that, I obviously think he's wrong.

Brink's overall offensive ceiling is higher. That was my stance pre-draft, and remains my opinion now. His 2nd half of the year was straight fire. He looked dominant very often.

Unfortunately for Brink, the French Hak connection may be his future coaches. Julien will likely use CC properly, just like he did with Suzuki. The French Hak's will do something deranged, like play NAK on the PP over Brink. The only hope is Chuck's Minnesota nepotism can save him.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Laine is pretty good. He just turned 22 and he's already scored 140 NHL goals. I get the concerns, though.

 

[TheKingPin]

I know he will be a RFA when his deal is up, but it’s still just a one year deal where is going to get paid a lot next year. It’s not like he was happy there and wanted to sign a long term deal. He is in no way worth all of those assets or 3 of them.

 

[landsbergfan]

Players who need their teammates to do absolutely everything for them in the OZ aren’t that valuable.

I can 100% guarantee that fans would turn on him within a few weeks. If he were acquired that is. He rarely gets loose pucks himself, floats/cheats defensively, is a maybe average passer, doesn’t drive play (shot attempts AND line driving), & he’s pretty much a non-factor in the cycle game & in 50/50 battles.


I don’t see the appeal, I don’t see the lineup fit, & I mainly don’t see the point in adding a player of his ilk.

SHOOT FIRST SNIPER ON THE WING