2020 NHL Draft

[Desert Eagle]

To be fair if they had better forwards he would have a had a lot more points.

His contract is one of the reasons why this team hasn’t cap space for better forwards.
DW makes great trades (EK65’s trade is one of that) but he often overpays (money/term) on contract extensions.

 

[Gecklund]

Yea. If we only had better forwards, a better d partner for him, better goalies, and a better coach with a better system then Karlsson would be worth the $11.5 M he is being paid.

I mean we only have 4 top 6 forwards, our D is fine if they don’t all crash at one time, Jones/Dell do suck, and so does PDB.

 

[Barrie22]

His contract is one of the reasons why this team hasn’t cap space for better forwards.
DW makes great trades (EK65’s trade is one of that) but he often overpays (money/term) on contract extensions.

He is being paid what a player of his calibre of player gets paid in the nhl today.

 

[Barrie22]

Yea. If we only had better forwards, a better d partner for him, better goalies, and a better coach with a better system then Karlsson would be worth the $11.5 M he is being paid.

He is worth every penny that he is making.

 

[jarr92]

What a horrible stat, point per dollar? But i get it the ones that hated the trade or the player to begin with will never be haply with anything he does..

At his worst this year he was a top 10 defensemen. And we all know what his best is.

How is it a horrible stat? I'm saying that while Karlsson was arguably the Sharks best player when on the ice, he also didn't meet expectations based on his contract.. this stat literally proves that to be true.... Or are you arguing that point totals aren't a good stat for an OFD either? lol

Also, if you want to accuse me of having bias against EK65 you may want to actually read my post made directly before this..

I was/am a huge EK65 fan, and laughed when I heard the trade because of how much of a steal I thought it was.

One can be a huge fan of someone without being a blind homer

 

[Barrie22]

How is it a horrible stat? I'm saying that while Karlsson was arguably the Sharks best player when on the ice, he also didn't meet expectations based on his contract.. this stat literally proves that to be true.... Or are you arguing that point totals aren't a good stat for an OFD either? lol

Also, if you want to accuse me of having bias against EK65 you may want to actually read my post made directly before this..



One can be a huge fan of someone without being a blind homer

Its a horrible stat because it means nothing. The ones at the top of that list will be rookies and the ones at the end will all be the superstars like crosby/mcdavid/karlsson.

Karlsson point per dollar stat this year was 190k per point. At his career year best it goes down to 140k per point.

Mcdavid this year at his 123 point pace was going to be making 100k per point.

And i will repeat this again. Karlsson was on pace to finish top 3 at the very farthest down top 5 in points by defensemen.

This might come as a suprise to you. But defensemen score less then forwards. So another reason why the stat is horrible is it mixes defensemen and forwards together.

 

[CupfortheSharks]

He is worth every penny that he is making.

He is the highest paid defenseman in the league. He is the 4th highest paid player in the league. He is the highest paid Shark ever by a wide margin. Was he the best d man in the league this year? Not even close. Was he the 4th best player in the league this year. Not even close. Was he the best Shark ever by a wide margin. Not even close. He needs to meet those expectations to be worth every penny of that huge salary.

 

[Harbessix]

This still the draft thread or the Karlsson thread lol…

 

[jarr92]

Its a horrible stat because it means nothing. The ones at the top of that list will be rookies and the ones at the end will all be the superstars like crosby/mcdavid/karlsson.

Karlsson point per dollar stat this year was 190k per point. At his career year best it goes down to 140k per point.

Mcdavid this year at his 123 point pace was going to be making 100k per point.

And i will repeat this again. Karlsson was on pace to finish top 3 at the very farthest down top 5 in points by defensemen.

This might come as a suprise to you. But defensemen score less then forwards. So another reason why the stat is horrible is it mixes defensemen and forwards together.

1. I'm not sure what you are looking at, your statistics are just flat out incorrect. His point per dollar stat this year was $285,500. If it was 190K I wouldn't have brought it up. Also, He was not "top 3-5 in scoring pace at worst", he was ranked #12 in points per game. Use actual correct stats to prove your points please.

2. Karlsson will obviously never be anywhere near the top, but if he ranked near Crosby (491 while playing 15 games less) or McDavid (370) I would say he met expectations, that was not the case. Other than Doughty's terrible contract, EK65 is paid 2.5mm(!!!) more than any other defenseman. Is it unfair to expect the top paid defenseman to be the the top at their position? The fact is he was ranked #20 in total points for defensemen, and let's be honest we all watched this year he was giving up more in the d-zone then a lot of others ahead of him on that list.

3. I wouldn't use the stat with any other defenseman besides Karlsson, who is supposed to be the premier OFD in the NHL (and is being paid as such).

Again, don't conflate disappointment in a player's season with hating on a player. He's probably my top #1-2 favorite Shark (dat Hertl tho), I just expect him to carry the Sharks the way JT did for a decade.

 

[Groo]

All of us. It was a sunk cost though, so I don't feel too bad. If we'd picked around 20, no one would have cared.

No ifs about it. It won't be nearly that high. So why care indeed

 

[themelkman]

Ive been watching lots of this guy Draft Dynasty's videos recently. He does pull lots of great clips and talks about what he knows if anyones interested.


I really like the idea of drafting Reichel, he is young, fits our brand of hockey, and is already able to play against men well.

 

[DeepBlueSea408]

Ive been watching lots of this guy Draft Dynasty's videos recently. He does pull lots of great clips and talks about what he knows if anyones interested.


I really like the idea of drafting Reichel, he is young, fits our brand of hockey, and is already able to play against men well.

Hell ya! If we keep all 3 picks. My dream draft would be : Hendrix Lapierre with our first, Lukas Reichel with our early second, and then 1 of Zion Nybeck, Jake Neighbors, Luke Evangelista, Theodore Niederbach with our mid/late second.

 

[themelkman]

Hell ya! If we keep all 3 picks. My dream draft would be : Hendrix Lapierre with our first, Lukas Reichel with our early second, and then 1 of Zion Nybeck, Jake Neighbors, Luke Evangelista, Theodore Niederbach with our mid/late second.

That would be amazing if we got that combo of players

 

[themelkman]

Also I love this draft simulator tool, its really fun to play and also allows you to move up and down in the draft like real life. draftsim

You can pretty much consistently get two of Bourque, Riechel, Perreault, Khusnutdinov and Foerester with our picks

 

[PacificOceanPotion]

Also I love this draft simulator tool, its really fun to play and also allows you to move up and down in the draft like real life. draftsim

You can pretty much consistently get two of Bourque, Riechel, Perreault, Khusnutdinov and Foerester with our picks

Did the simulation about 3 different times and in each try I was able to snag us Nybek and Khusnutdinov with our 1st and 34th

 

[themelkman]

Did the simulation about 3 different times and in each try I was able to snag us Nybek and Khusnutdinov with our 1st and 34th

Yup same, we honestly should be in good position if NHL scouts think anything like the guys who made it do

 

[hohosaregood]

Yup same, we honestly should be in good position if NHL scouts think anything like the guys who made it do

I hope we keep the 1st two picks we have. We could really use any of the guys we've talked about in this thread. I wouldn't mind trading down the Colorado pick to get a 3rd and a 4th though.

 

[Nolan11]

I hope we keep the 1st two picks we have. We could really use any of the guys we've talked about in this thread. I wouldn't mind trading down the Colorado pick to get a 3rd and a 4th though.

Or trading the. Avs 2nd with sorenson and true for Killorn ?

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

How is it a horrible stat? I'm saying that while Karlsson was arguably the Sharks best player when on the ice, he also didn't meet expectations based on his contract.. this stat literally proves that to be true.... Or are you arguing that point totals aren't a good stat for an OFD either? lol

Also, if you want to accuse me of having bias against EK65 you may want to actually read my post made directly before this..



One can be a huge fan of someone without being a blind homer

Points per dollar is an atrocious metric in the method you're using it because it will always be heavily unfavorable to defensemen and players who signed their contracts as UFAs, and because points in general are not a good stat; especially not for assessing defensemen.

 

[jarr92]

Did the simulation about 3 different times and in each try I was able to snag us Nybek and Khusnutdinov with our 1st and 34th

I hadn’t paid too much attention to this draft class because of the lack of a first for most of the year, so pardon my ignorance.. but how does a guy like Nybek (5’8, poor skating) translate to the NHL?

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Its a horrible stat because it means nothing. The ones at the top of that list will be rookies and the ones at the end will all be the superstars like crosby/mcdavid/karlsson.

Karlsson point per dollar stat this year was 190k per point. At his career year best it goes down to 140k per point.

Mcdavid this year at his 123 point pace was going to be making 100k per point.

And i will repeat this again. Karlsson was on pace to finish top 3 at the very farthest down top 5 in points by defensemen.

This might come as a suprise to you. But defensemen score less then forwards. So another reason why the stat is horrible is it mixes defensemen and forwards together.

To be fair it doesn't mean nothing but it can be incredibly misleading depending on the players role on the team. I'd say it's probably more valuable when judging bottom 6 players and defensive players that never see PP time. If your top guys on the PP are also very positive +- players that says they're handling their even strength responsibilities well too.

 

[jarr92]

Points per dollar is an atrocious metric in the method you're using it because it will always be heavily unfavorable to defensemen and players who signed their contracts as UFAs, and because points in general are not a good stat; especially not for assessing defensemen.

I already responded to most of this in my response to Barrie.

I agree it is not a good way to form a player analysis. Karlsson by most analytics was the Sharks best player when on the ice last season. I’m big into analytics like you so I’ve looked over most of them.

My argument is that while that is true, he did not meet the expectations set by his contract. Only in that context does a stat like points per dollar become relevant. And as I mentioned to Barrie, I wouldn’t use that stat for any other defenseman because it would be unfair. Karlsson is supposed to be different then every other defenseman in terms of offensive output.

As I mentioned, besides Doughty’s contract Karlsson is being paid $2.5m more then any other defenseman. He’s not getting paid for his brilliant work in the d zone or for his physicality.

While I acknowledge the importance of analytics, I think you go overboard when you say “points in general are not a good stat.” I’m sorry but if Karlsson is going to continue to rank 20th in total points and 12th in points per game for a defenseman, while being paid far more then any defenseman other then Doughty, he will continue to not meet the expectations set by his contract.

 

[Mattb124]

I already responded to most of this in my response to Barrie.

I agree it is not a good way to form a player analysis. Karlsson by most analytics was the Sharks best player when on the ice last season. I’m big into analytics like you so I’ve looked over most of them.

My argument is that while that is true, he did not meet the expectations set by his contract. Only in that context does a stat like points per dollar become relevant. And as I mentioned to Barrie, I wouldn’t use that stat for any other defenseman because it would be unfair. Karlsson is supposed to be different then every other defenseman in terms of offensive output.

As I mentioned, besides Doughty’s contract Karlsson is being paid $2.5m more then any other defenseman. He’s not getting paid for his brilliant work in the d zone or for his physicality.

While I acknowledge the importance of analytics, I think you go overboard when you say “points in general are not a good stat.” I’m sorry but if Karlsson is going to continue to rank 20th in total points and 12th in points per game for a defenseman, while being paid far more then any defenseman other then Doughty, he will continue to not meet the expectations set by his contract.

I agree. If he were a defensive d-man or a 2 way d-man it would change the perspective, but given his game he is paid to generate offense.

 

[Coily]

TSN and Bob McKenzie released their final draft rankings.

Bob McKenzie's Final Ranking: Lafreniere the surest thing in most uncertain draft year - TSN.ca

 

[themelkman]

TSN and Bob McKenzie released their final draft rankings.

Bob McKenzie's Final Ranking: Lafreniere the surest thing in most uncertain draft year - TSN.ca

I like Bourque alot and he seems to be falling down a lot of these lists recently