Prospect Info: 2020 NHL Draft - part II

[Spoiled Bratt]

You guys are still arguing about Askarov?

We can't afford to use a luxury pick on a goalie in the first round unless he's BY FAR the BPA, we have too many other needs atm.

I loathed it when Lou and Conte wasted firsts on goalies while we had a 25-year old Brodeur but it was at least more understandable then when we were loaded top to bottom.

That’s just the wrong approach but I won’t go down that road again.

There’s a reason professional scouts have been drooling over this kid and his potential. Using the "you don’t draft a goalie in the 1st round" mentality is overplayed.

 

[Ol Dirty Bstrd]

That’s just the wrong approach but I won’t go down that road again.

There’s a reason professional scouts have been drooling over this kid and his potential. Using the "you don’t draft a goalie in the 1st round" mentality is overplayed.

Seriously, it’s amazing to me that a fan base whose team drafted Brodeur in the first round can’t grasp that. I don’t think anyone is advocating drafting Askarov with our pick, but he should definitely be a consideration for the Coyotes pick depending who’s left on the board and especially for the Canucks pick if he’s still available

 

[Guttersniped]

Askarov has been struggling and while that doesn’t mean “LOL bust!” it will hurt his draft value. He’s far from the first highly regarded prospect that didn’t deliver the expected huge draft year performance. Here’s recent mention about Askarov.

G Yaroslav Askarov (Ranked No. 10) — The life of a teenage goalie prospect in his draft year has to be difficult. Especially for one who has been touted as borderline generational for several years. For whatever reasons, Askarov has not been a busy boy since his subpar performance at the under-20 world junior championship. Although he is the youngest goalie in Russia’s adult-age VHL, his club team SKA-Neva has had no issues giving him the lion’s share of netminding duties that led up to the aforementioned WJC. Since then, however, Askarov appeared in only one league game between leaving for the Russian U20 camp on Dec. 9 and attending last weekend’s tournament. In other words, the kid just hasn’t played and no reports indicate a possible injury. In talking to several Russian hockey types, they were all in agreement that Askarov is a serious student of the game and analyzes his performances down to the smallest detail. Some feel he spent the last month going over technical issues, while others felt the situation was fragile and he needed a break.

Recap: U18 Five Nations (February) - The Draft Analyst

It’s not like the Devils’ only two choices are drafting Askarov in the 1st round or facing a bleak future of bad goaltending. Senn is doing well in Bing, Schmid is a legit prospect and there’s also the 19 yo Brady. And here’s the real kicker, we can draft other goaltenders in this draft and future ones.

People can want the Devils to draft Askarov, drafting is a crapshoot and fans disagree about prospects. However, Askarov is not a sure fire elite NHL starter and goalie is the one position where numerous future starters, even some elite ones, are found outside the 1st round in every draft.

 

[NjDevsRR]

You came up with Senn, not me. I actually forgot all about him before you brought him up lol

If it makes you feel any better, I’m wrong and you’re right... the end.

Yes, I’m allowed to bring up Senn, that’s not an excuse to put words in my mouth lol.

And no, you can be 100% right on this. I am just poking you on this other stuff.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

Askarov has been struggling and while that doesn’t mean “LOL bust!” it will hurt his draft value. He’s far from the first highly regarded prospect that didn’t deliver the expected huge draft year performance. Here’s recent mention about Askarov.



Recap: U18 Five Nations (February) - The Draft Analyst

It’s not like the Devils’ only two choices are drafting Askarov in the 1st round or facing a bleak future of bad goaltending. Senn is doing well in Bing, Schmid is a legit prospect and there’s also the 19 yo Brady. And here’s the real kicker, we can draft other goaltenders in this draft and future ones.

People can want the Devils to draft Askarov, drafting is a crapshoot and fans disagree about prospects. However, Askarov is not a sure fire elite NHL starter and goalie is the one position where numerous future starters, even some elite ones, are found outside the 1st round in every draft.

I often agree with you but on this point, we don’t really see eye to eye.

This notion that you can find elite goaltending in the later rounds is somewhat true but you have to swing and miss on repeated occasions in order to get your reward.

Adding the best goaltending prospect since Carey Price isn’t anything to brush aside, like it’s no big deal. Goaltenders are just as important then forwards or dmen.

Like you said, drafting isn’t a precise science but for someone with as much hype as Askarov, I’d take a shot with a mid round pick on someone who has the upside of being one of the best goaltenders in the game (scouts comparing him to Price) over a prospect that isn’t labeled to be the best at his position.

We have a golden opportunity to snatch the best dman (Drysdale) and the best goaltender (Askarov) in the same draft. That would be a real boost to our pipeline, when considering we have Hischier and Hughes down the middle for the next multiple years.

 

[Forge]

I’m taking Byfield and whoever at #12 over Ottawa’s picks.

Dropping from #2, who’s a lock to be Byfield, to #5 is a risky move because you have no idea who the following picks will be. If Stutzle and Drysdale are off the board at #5 and you’re not in love with Rossi, you’re taking a big gamble when you’re certain of landing an elite top line center in Byfield.

If we’re moving down, we have to make sure our guy will be there at #5 and sometimes it means we’ll have to call teams #3 and #4 to see what they’re doing and give them a little sweetener to make sure they’re not taking our guy.

I really want to lean 5 & 8, but you're 100% correct...it all comes down to Stutzle / Drysdale. If they are there, I'll take 5/8 all day to be honest. But if they aren't, it's kind of a disaster, and I say that as a guy who absolutely loves the swedes, am intrigued by Rossi, etc.

 

[beekay414]

You keep 2 and use 12 and 19 or whatever Vancouver's pick is and move up. I can't pass on Byfield.

 

[Guttersniped]

Here’s a list of goalies taken in the first round sines 2001:
NHL Draft Finder | Hockey-Reference.com

Teams had been drafting multiple goalies in the 1st year after year but it‘s dropped off recently. After two in 2012 teams have only drafted three in the last seven 1st rounds.

With the cap teams may prefer juggling cheaper tandem goalies rather than risk putting a ton of money in one big time starter. Unlike skaters, a team can’t hide a struggling goalie by limiting their ice time. Fading older goalies can’t easily transition into still valuable depth players. Goalies tend to have less trade value.

Vasilevskiy has been great but he’ll be 34 when his extension ends. It’s not a terrible deal but there’s a whole lot more risk in signing a 26 yo top goalie to a 8 year deal than a signing a 26 yo skater to one.

I get why some people want the Devils to draft Askarov. It may happen. Goalies drafted in later rounds get brutal contracts too. But there’s been a drop in goalies drafted in the 1st round and there has to be reasons for that.

 

[NJDevs26]

I get why some people want the Devils to draft Askarov. It may happen. Goalies drafted in later rounds get brutal contracts too. But there’s been a drop in goalies drafted in the 1st round and there has to be reasons for that.

Because goalies are looked at like running backs in the NFL...largely interchangeable and disposable (especially as most #1 goalie workloads are going down to around 55-60 games a year). Sure you still have the occasional guy drafted in the first round but it's no longer the norm.

Also a lot of first-round misses of the guys who have been drafted since 2006 other than Vasilevsky, Varlamov and probably Samsonov. Before that it seems like goalies had a higher percentage of hitting, when there was less uniformity in the position.

 

[Sheros expletives]

You have a knack of putting words in others posters mouths. My opinion on Senn is also based on his performance in Sweden, not just now. My opinion on Blackwood is also beyond the 45 games in the NHL. He did well in the OHL and ECHL. I also never said who we draft will have an immediate impact at all. We have too many holes, and drafting a goalie (whose stock has been decreasing) in the first round is always risky. We already have a good young goalie and another young goalie who was good in Switzerland and is starting to perform at a high level in the AHL. There is zero reason to take that risk so why even go there? Yes, draft the BPA but the BPA skater. We need to hit a home run in the next two drafts and I am not risking that by taking a chance on a goalie when we already have a good goalie locking down the starters role. I like where we are out with my two young, 6’5” goalies. Only thing the goalie position needs right now is a capable veteran backup. Let Mac lead this team while we see how Senn progresses in Bing. I currently don’t need a first round goalie developing over the next 4/5 years.

You realize that Sweden and Switzerland are two different countries?

 

[Billdo]

I am fairly confident that Arizona will miss playoffs.

 

[NjDevsRR]

You realize that Sweden and Switzerland are two different countries?

No shit since I wrote Switzerland later in that same post and in other posts. Obviously its a typo as I quickly typed all of that. I was probably thinking the Swiss League but typed Sweden, big whoop.

Nice try though.

 

[StevenToddIves]

I think that would devastate @StevenToddIves

Depends on what the Devils received in return, really. If the Avs offered us Makar for two of our first rounders, sure I'd do it. But let's just face the fact that it won't happen. What I'm worried about is the idea that we would trade a first-round pick, which is potentially a franchise cornerstone, for a depth player. There were people on these boards last year suggesting that we trade the 2020 1st rounder for 4/5 defensemen like Jonas Brodin and TJ Brodie. How bad would those deals look now?

To me, there are two reasons to trade a first-round pick. One -- like Tampa has done this year -- is you have a legitimate shot at the Stanley Cup, and you have the opportunity to add an impact player to an already-great team. Two -- like Pittsburgh has done this year -- you are able to add a player who will be a top-line or top-D-pairing player for multiple seasons.

What you do not do is trade a first-round pick to "fill a hole" in your line-up with a passable player, as Nashville did in 2018 acquiring Ryan Hartman or Minnesota in 2017 with Martin Hanzal. These are the trades which come back to haunt a team.

 

[StevenToddIves]

I am fairly confident that Arizona will miss playoffs.

I called that the day of the Hall trade, when the Coyotes were in first place. They are just so thin up the middle and lack secondary scoring. They are not a particularly heavy team and can disappear against more physical opponents. I like their goaltending and coaching, and the Coyotes' blueline is certainly very good; so I would not count them out in a suspect Pacific Division. Still, I think that if they were in the Metropolitan Division, Arizona would be fighting the Devils for last place.

 

[Nubmer6]

Depends on what the Devils received in return, really. If the Avs offered us Makar for two of our first rounders, sure I'd do it. But let's just face the fact that it won't happen. What I'm worried about is the idea that we would trade a first-round pick, which is potentially a franchise cornerstone, for a depth player. There were people on these boards last year suggesting that we trade the 2020 1st rounder for 4/5 defensemen like Jonas Brodin and TJ Brodie. How bad would those deals look now?

To me, there are two reasons to trade a first-round pick. One -- like Tampa has done this year -- is you have a legitimate shot at the Stanley Cup, and you have the opportunity to add an impact player to an already-great team. Two -- like Pittsburgh has done this year -- you are able to add a player who will be a top-line or top-D-pairing player for multiple seasons.

What you do not do is trade a first-round pick to "fill a hole" in your line-up with a passable player, as Nashville did in 2018 acquiring Ryan Hartman or Minnesota in 2017 with Martin Hanzal. These are the trades which come back to haunt a team.

I was actually all for trading for Brodie, but not for a first rounder. I was thinking more like a 2nd or 3rd, as they seemed to be down on him.

Edit:
Unlikely but I still wouldn't mind picking him up as a UFA if we could get him for 3 years or less.

 

[StevenToddIves]

I was actually all for trading for Brodie, but not for a first rounder. I was thinking more like a 2nd or 3rd, as they seemed to be down on him.

Edit:
Unlikely but I still wouldn't mind picking him up as a UFA if we could get him for 3 years or less.

I wouldn't want to target Brodin -- superior defensemen in Dillon and Edmundson will both be available. The last thing the Devils need is another perimeter, positional defenseman who does not move the needle offensively, defensively or physically and shies away from physical opposition. The Devils need to change the dynamic on defense. Ty Smith will hopefully add an offensive element, Dillon or Edmundson (or both) would make the Devils far more difficult to play against.

 

[Oneiro]

Steven sort of hit on how I would like to use 1-2 of those firsts if we trade. Similar to how Jordan Staal went to Carolina at age 23.

W. Nylander is an obvious candidate but wonder who else fits that profile (impact player about to enter his prime and not getting enough minutes or there's a cap crunch).

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Brodin has been one of the best defensive dmen in the league this season. I think he’d be excellent next to Severson.

I don’t really like Edmundson. He seems like a guy that will get a terrible contract.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

Might bump ourselves out of the top-10 entirely at this rate.

 

[glenwo2]

Might bump ourselves out of the top-10 entirely at this rate.

If the Devils end up being successful on this road trip? Maybe....We'll see the rest of the way.


We're still not using any first rounder....ANY first rounder on Askarov.

Enough talk by the usual suspects here about that.

Not happening.

I am so confident that this will be the case.

 

[JrFischer54]

Reimer and barrie leaving with injury? Perfect example if you have a window you go get pieces you can before it closes. Can’t haggle over prices just go give your team the best chance to win this year

 

[Guttersniped]

I called that the day of the Hall trade, when the Coyotes were in first place. They are just so thin up the middle and lack secondary scoring. They are not a particularly heavy team and can disappear against more physical opponents. I like their goaltending and coaching, and the Coyotes' blueline is certainly very good; so I would not count them out in a suspect Pacific Division. Still, I think that if they were in the Metropolitan Division, Arizona would be fighting the Devils for last place.

You can’t count out the Coyotes because you can’t count on the Jets, the Flames, the Preds or the Wild. Hopefully all these losers stumble to a better record than Arizona but that’s unlikely. Calgary in particular has been as bad or worse than the Coyotes, so any signs of life from the other three are much appreciated.

The Athletic’s projected finish this morning had:
Nashville 92.4 66%
Calgary 90.1 49%
Minnesota 89.6 40%
Winnipeg 89.5 39%
Arizona 89.3 41%

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

...you’re just not getting it. The center isn’t necessarily the better player. It is a hypothetical. I am rejecting the ridiculous notion that you should just avoid drafting someone because they’re not a position of need.

HYPOTHETICAL!!!: Even if you’re strong at center, you should absolutely add an elite center over a pretty good winger.

If you respond with “how do you know the winger will be so-so” again, I’m done.

You're not getting it. My point is you keep twisting it in a way to support what you're saying. If you said, you should pick an elite center over an elite winger...then that makes sense. This hypothetical of a center being elite but somehow winger being so-so makes 0 sense.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

You're not getting it. My point is you keep twisting it in a way to support what you're saying. If you said, you should pick an elite center over an elite winger...then that makes sense. This hypothetical of a center being elite but somehow winger being so-so makes 0 sense.

This is just totally pointless. Are you kidding me man? The post said he wouldn’t draft Byfield (the number 2 draft prospect in the world) or Rossi simply because they are centers. What aren’t you understanding? And do you know what hypothetical means?

The thought process of “I won’t draft player X because they’re a center” is dumb. HYPOTHETICALLY, it would be better to add an elite center over a so-so winger. It would also be better to add an elite winger over a so-so center. The entire ****ing point is that you don’t forgo drafting someone just because of their position. You don’t say “I’m not drafting the number 2 prospect in the world” because they’re a center and we have some good centers already.

 

[TBF1972]

This is just completely wrong. Just own it.

You insuitated that I was making my point on Senn due his play in the last few weeks when I was basing it on his entire progression dating back to the Swiss League.

You then insinuated that I was ‘jumping to conclusions based on 45 games’ when I was basing Blackwood on that AND his performances in the OHL, ECHL and a solid season in Albany.

Senn was only the second best young goalie in his time in Davos. Late bloomer, yes. But I wouldn't bet he can keep up the trajectory.