2020-21 Expected Roster Talk - Part 3

[Muffinalt]

You guys are nice I must say.

The guys is giving us firsthand info from the Swiss league, info we can't have on our prospects otherwise.

Yeah he has different opinions and annoying traits.... And so do you, so do we. So now everyone should call out everyone?

There is already a bunch of 'holier than thou' posters who constantly act all mighty, why increase the numbers?

 

[Hinterland]

You guys are nice I must say.

The guys is giving us firsthand info from the Swiss league, info we can't have on our prospects otherwise.

Yeah he has different opinions and annoying traits.... And so do you, so do we. So now everyone should call out everyone?

There is already a bunch of 'holier than thou' posters who constantly act all mighty, why increase the numbers?

Thanks man. No worries though. This board is still a very friendly place compared to Nashville's...not that I like the Preds much anyway though

I'm also well aware that my opinions aren't always the most popular ones so I don't have a problem with adversity. I must say that I'm slightly surprised to get called out for negativity after those "fire Colliton" and "fire Bowman" threads and GDT's filled with negativity where I was actually one of the few posters being positive about the team. Not everything perfect in Chicago and I surely don't agree with everything going on but there was a lot of whining and complaining whereas now that all of those threads seem to be forgotten, all of a sudden I get called out for simple obvervations like for exampe that Nylander needs time to develop or Dach needs someone to take faceoffs for him.

But okay. I can live with that. No problem

 

[Muffinalt]

Thanks man. No worries though. This board is still a very friendly place compared to Nashville's...not that I like the Preds much anyway though

I'm also well aware that my opinions aren't always the most popular ones so I don't have a problem with adversity. I must say that I'm slightly surprised to get called out for negativity after those "fire Colliton" and "fire Bowman" threads and GDT's filled with negativity where I was actually one of the few posters being positive about the team. Not everything perfect in Chicago and I surely don't agree with everything going on but there was a lot of whining and complaining whereas now that all of those threads seem to be forgotten, all of a sudden I get called out for simple obvervations like for exampe that Nylander needs time to develop or Dach needs someone to take faceoffs for him.

But okay. I can live with that. No problem

Well it's always two sides right, you're not exactly backing down or being less combative yourself lol. Have to keep in mind that this board has members who are here for a long, long time and follow the players and the team passionately. They're the ones who created the place for us to talk Blackhawk hockey, not the usual facebook posters.

I just don't understand why discussion has to be hostile, degrading or condescending here so often. Opinions differ, and we don't have to be right all the time.

Just my 2 cents. Our world is turning more and more hostile and judgemental, so leats we could do is be less condescending with people who we share the same passion with.

 

[x Tame Impala]

If what you really want is Dach to get his own minutes and be his own trusting self weapon. I think you gotta play Kane with Toews and keep Dach with someone steady like Kubalik who can finish.

Agreed. Play Toews and Kane together on a line and then give Dach Kubalik. I don’t want Dach learning to defer to Kane all the time.

 

[Brightwing]

Interesting article in the Athletic where Scott Powers spoke to four league sources regarding the trade value of the core four. Here is a summary if anyone is interested:

Kane: Cash owed is lower than AAV, still has a ton of value, could return an A prospect and a first rounder but they don't think the Hawks would trade him. "He’s still only 32 years old. He’s still one of the dominant players in the league. His cash going forward is outstanding. The cap number is high, but the cash is good."

Keith: Cash-wise contract is great. Top 4 or 4-5-6 defenceman and still plays well. Could bring back a prospect and middle-six forward, is attractive to cash-strapped teams. “I don’t believe Duncan Keith will ever leave the Blackhawks. We’ve asked about him, and he just doesn’t want to leave there.”

Seabrook: They don't he'll be traded, too much cap hit even if half the contract is retained. Would have to be a big package for Seattle to take him and sources don't think teams would. “It would cost you ‘A’ prospects. It could be a first-round pick and an ‘A’ prospect, not a ‘B’ prospect, but an ‘A’ prospect. Does that mean a potential Ian Mitchell and a first-rounder? That’d be one of the guys I’d be asking for. Lucas Carlsson is another one. It’s going to cost them. Teams may ask for (Alex) DeBrincat. Hey, if you give us DeBrincat, we’ll take him. But that’s what they’re up against.”

Toews: Toews would be valued for his leadership and intangibles and would be someone a team that needed good mentors would bring. Though he has the same contract as Kane, the Hawks would have to eat salary to trade him. “You’d have to eat $3-4 million, but you could bring back prospects and maybe a high draft pick.”

Honestly, the thing that surprised me most is that aside that a team would be asking for Lucas Carlsson in a trade package for Seabrook as an A prospect. I think we might be sleeping on how good he is.

 

[RayP]

It couldn't be any more obvious that you should build a line around Dach and his development, and ideally not with Kane on his line so he doesn't defer too much. It's too bad we traded Saad because I think he'd have been a perfect winger for him along with Kubalik.

So with that being the case, I'd personally start the season with something like....

Shaw-Toews-Kane
Debrincat-Dach-Kubalik
Janmark-Strome-Wallmark
Highmore-Kampf-Carpenter

That puts some talent with Dach but not so much so that he's going to defer.... and he has 2 guys who can finish for him, but also defensively responsible enough of a line as a whole.

I don't know a lot about Wallmark, but maybe even put him at C on that line and let Strome try and keep up from a wing.

 

[bwana63]

It couldn't be any more obvious that you should build a line around Dach and his development, and ideally not with Kane on his line so he doesn't defer too much. It's too bad we traded Saad because I think he'd have been a perfect winger for him along with Kubalik.

So with that being the case, I'd personally start the season with something like....

Shaw-Toews-Kane
Debrincat-Dach-Kubalik
Janmark-Strome-Wallmark
Highmore-Kampf-Carpenter

That puts some talent with Dach but not so much so that he's going to defer.... and he has 2 guys who can finish for him, but also defensively responsible enough of a line as a whole.

I don't know a lot about Wallmark, but maybe even put him at C on that line and let Strome try and keep up from a wing.

Agreed, with a slight tweak: Nylander on line 3, Wallmark on line 4, bumping Highmore. Nylander isn't going to get unlimited leash, but the Hawks aren't close to throwing in the towel.

 

[RayP]

Agreed, with a slight tweak: Nylander on line 3, Wallmark on line 4, bumping Highmore. Nylander isn't going to get unlimited leash, but the Hawks aren't close to throwing in the towel.

I completely forgot about him haha. I honestly don’t think Shaw is going to play much if at all.... so you can adjust accordingly from there. I just wouldn’t touch the second line in doing so.

 

[Hinterland]

It couldn't be any more obvious that you should build a line around Dach and his development, and ideally not with Kane on his line so he doesn't defer too much. It's too bad we traded Saad because I think he'd have been a perfect winger for him along with Kubalik.

So with that being the case, I'd personally start the season with something like....

Shaw-Toews-Kane
Debrincat-Dach-Kubalik
Janmark-Strome-Wallmark
Highmore-Kampf-Carpenter

That puts some talent with Dach but not so much so that he's going to defer.... and he has 2 guys who can finish for him, but also defensively responsible enough of a line as a whole.

I don't know a lot about Wallmark, but maybe even put him at C on that line and let Strome try and keep up from a wing.

No Suter?
Wallmark I don't think played a single game on the Wing...at least not in the NHL. Strome on the Wing would be pretty useless, too I fear.

Hagel and Kurashev are easily NHL ready I think. Highmore has proven to be ready during playoffs. Add Wallmark and Janmark to the mix plus maybe Smith and Shaw coming back. Even if you demote Nylander, that's still 16 bodies if my math is right. Now of course it's still possible that both Shaw and Smith aren't ready for whenever they play again. It's also possible that Suter has problems adjusting. But some tough decisions ahead for the Coaches. This forward group is incredibly deep.

 

[bwana63]

But some tough decisions ahead for the Coaches. This forward group is incredibly deep.

This. Looking forward to seeing how things shake out. We should be improved defensively (perhaps by a lot) and physically.

Can't believe I forgot Suter too (in reply to RayP). Ugh.

 

[RayP]

No Suter?
Wallmark I don't think played a single game on the Wing...at least not in the NHL. Strome on the Wing would be pretty useless, too I fear.

Hagel and Kurashev are easily NHL ready I think. Highmore has proven to be ready during playoffs. Add Wallmark and Janmark to the mix plus maybe Smith and Shaw coming back. Even if you demote Nylander, that's still 16 bodies if my math is right. Now of course it's still possible that both Shaw and Smith aren't ready for whenever they play again. It's also possible that Suter has problems adjusting. But some tough decisions ahead for the Coaches. This forward group is incredibly deep.

Hah, forgot about him too.... swing and a miss on my part.

 

[bwana63]

Maybe I'm swigging the kool-aid, but we could be a lot better than perceived. Obviously, that's contingent on many things (goaltending, Dach, Z & Boqvist stepping up, Mitchell being solid), but hardy a pipe dream, IMO. Our forward corps should be much better defensively, that's been a glaring weakness the past few seasons.

 

[plasmonresonance]

Maybe I'm swigging the kool-aid, but we could be a lot better than perceived. Obviously, that's contingent on many things (goaltending, Dach, Z & Boqvist stepping up, Mitchell being solid), but hardy a pipe dream, IMO. Our forward corps should be much better defensively, that's been a glaring weakness the past few seasons.

If the more defensive responsible forwards can help lower the SOG and high danger chances, the Hawks mediocre goal tending situation won't appear quite so bad as on paper.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Interesting article in the Athletic where Scott Powers spoke to four league sources regarding the trade value of the core four. Here is a summary if anyone is interested:

Kane: Cash owed is lower than AAV, still has a ton of value, could return an A prospect and a first rounder but they don't think the Hawks would trade him. "He’s still only 32 years old. He’s still one of the dominant players in the league. His cash going forward is outstanding. The cap number is high, but the cash is good."

Keith: Cash-wise contract is great. Top 4 or 4-5-6 defenceman and still plays well. Could bring back a prospect and middle-six forward, is attractive to cash-strapped teams. “I don’t believe Duncan Keith will ever leave the Blackhawks. We’ve asked about him, and he just doesn’t want to leave there.”

Seabrook: They don't he'll be traded, too much cap hit even if half the contract is retained. Would have to be a big package for Seattle to take him and sources don't think teams would. “It would cost you ‘A’ prospects. It could be a first-round pick and an ‘A’ prospect, not a ‘B’ prospect, but an ‘A’ prospect. Does that mean a potential Ian Mitchell and a first-rounder? That’d be one of the guys I’d be asking for. Lucas Carlsson is another one. It’s going to cost them. Teams may ask for (Alex) DeBrincat. Hey, if you give us DeBrincat, we’ll take him. But that’s what they’re up against.”

Toews: Toews would be valued for his leadership and intangibles and would be someone a team that needed good mentors would bring. Though he has the same contract as Kane, the Hawks would have to eat salary to trade him. “You’d have to eat $3-4 million, but you could bring back prospects and maybe a high draft pick.”

Honestly, the thing that surprised me most is that aside that a team would be asking for Lucas Carlsson in a trade package for Seabrook as an A prospect. I think we might be sleeping on how good he is.

That's what surprised you most? Not Powers referring to Kieth as a #4-6 Dman? Or saying teams will ask for DeBrincat along with Seabrook? What team is going to absorb nearly $13 million in cap hits? Powers and/or his "league sources" are way out to lunch.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

That's what surprised you most? Not Powers referring to Kieth as a #4-6 Dman? Or saying teams will ask for DeBrincat along with Seabrook? What team is going to absorb nearly $13 million in cap hits? Powers and/or his "league sources" are way out to lunch.

Was it Powers calling Keith a #4-6, or is he saying that’s how teams around the league see Keith?

 

[Hinterland]

Maybe I'm swigging the kool-aid, but we could be a lot better than perceived. Obviously, that's contingent on many things (goaltending, Dach, Z & Boqvist stepping up, Mitchell being solid), but hardy a pipe dream, IMO. Our forward corps should be much better defensively, that's been a glaring weakness the past few seasons.

They were much better than most people expected in the playoffs already. Probably not here but on another board I actually called Chicago a dark horse, not for the cup but for a deep push. They were at least equal against Vegas, too. Lost three one shot games so that series easily could have went the other way. Losing Saad shouldn't get underestimated as he was the teams most reliable two way winger. But forward depth is still much improved with many guys coming in and kids getting older and gaining experience. Goaltending is the biggest question mark but can easily get fixed. Don't think they're good enough yet to win cups and depth at defense is questionable at least but I could see them make a deeper push whenever there's play again

 

[x Tame Impala]

Was it Powers calling Keith a #4-6, or is he saying that’s how teams around the league see Keith?

It was Powers saying league sources have told him that. If there are "league sources" out there thinking NHL FO's view Kieth as a bottom pairing defenseman now, then those people shouldn't be used as league sources. It's analytically absurd and completely off base with the eye-test as well.

 

[Brightwing]

Was it Powers calling Keith a #4-6, or is he saying that’s how teams around the league see Keith?

No it was one of the league sources. The reality is outside of the Blackhawks bubble of fandom, Keith is not a top pairing d-man. Which is no insult to him. He is still very good, but he is 37.

 

[Brightwing]

Here is what Powers said on his sources: What could the Blackhawks get for their core in the current NHL landscape? What’s their individual value? Those questions were posed to multiple league sources, including team executives and scouts, who were allowed to respond anonymously to answer honestly.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

No it was one of the league sources. The reality is outside of the Blackhawks bubble of fandom, Keith is not a top pairing d-man. Which is no insult to him. He is still very good, but he is 37.

Here is what Powers said on his sources: What could the Blackhawks get for their core in the current NHL landscape? What’s their individual value? Those questions were posed to multiple league sources, including team executives and scouts, who were allowed to respond anonymously to answer honestly.

Ya, I figured. So it’s Powers being the messenger but for some reason getting shit because some don’t like the message.

Again, journalists and analysts are two different jobs. Powers is a journalist, not an analyst.

 

[Hinterland]

Ya, I figured. So it’s Powers being the messenger but for some reason getting shit because some don’t like the message.

Again, journalists and analysts are two different jobs. Powers is a journalist, not an analyst.

That guy could write anything and nobody could check unless he's actually revealing his sources. Don't think Powers has the credibility to build the network necessary to answer questions like this. Would be typical Athletics bs. All made up and no research at all. Also, most scout aren't cap experts. You can ask them about their opinion on players but everything beyond that would be nonsense and would require answers from serious hockey ops staff.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

No it was one of the league sources. The reality is outside of the Blackhawks bubble of fandom, Keith is not a top pairing d-man. Which is no insult to him. He is still very good, but he is 37.

Keith is weird....Idk how to tell you what he is or isn't at this point of his career. break down the season into quarters, and you get the following out of Keith:
1/4 of the time he plays like the Keith of old, the Norris winning #1D
1/4 of the time he plays like a 2nd pairing D
1/4 of the time he plays like a bottom pairing D
1/4 of the time he plays like he's washed up completely and not an NHL player anymore.

Combine all of that, and I guess you get a #4 but Idk what to say other than that. We all see the top quarter of games and forget about the bottom quarter of games. That's not to say he can't really help a team during a playoff run because he could elevate his game and minimize the number of games he's bad to awful.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

You guys are nice I must say.

The guys is giving us firsthand info from the Swiss league, info we can't have on our prospects otherwise.

Yeah he has different opinions and annoying traits.... And so do you, so do we. So now everyone should call out everyone?

There is already a bunch of 'holier than thou' posters who constantly act all mighty, why increase the numbers?

I absolutely appreciate his insight on the Swiss league, I don’t think myself or anyone else has criticized him for offering that insight.

It’s the condescending and contrarian persona that is being criticized.

You can bring different views and ideas without being an ass, or going out of your way to pick fights.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

That guy could write anything and nobody could check unless he's actually revealing his sources. Don't think Powers has the credibility to build the network necessary to answer questions like this. Would be typical Athletics bs. All made up and no research at all.

Edit: see, @Muffinalt. This is the type of crap we’re talking about. This isn’t Swiss league insight.

 

[Hinterland]

Keith is weird....Idk how to tell you what he is or isn't at this point of his career. break down the season into quarters, and you get the following out of Keith:
1/4 of the time he plays like the Keith of old, the Norris winning #1D
1/4 of the time he plays like a 2nd pairing D
1/4 of the time he plays like a bottom pairing D
1/4 of the time he plays like he's washed up completely and not an NHL player anymore.

Combine all of that, and I guess you get a #4 but Idk what to say other than that. We all see the top quarter of games and forget about the bottom quarter of games. That's not to say he can't really help a team during a playoff run because he could elevate his game and minimize the number of games he's bad to awful.

He was very good in the playoffs and that's where it matters, right?