2020-21 Expected Roster Talk - Part 3

[Pez68]

Kubalik-Toews-Suter/Nylander
DeBrincat-Strome-Kane
Janmark-Dach-Nylander/Suter
Kampf-Wallmark-Carpenter
Smith

Those would be my preferred forward lines, excluding Shaw cause I have no idea how healthy he is.

Amazing how the irrational man love for a player can screw up the entire forward lineup.

 

[HockeySauce]

Speaking of the fourth line, is Zach Smith returning or staying on LTIR? The uncertainty regarding Smith, Shaw and Seabrook really put us in an impossible spot this offseason. If we had certainty about just one of them we could have probably signed Crow.

Seabrook will be back and so will Shaw. The only thing that hurt them was their inability to buy out Smith because he hasn't been medically cleared. But even then, they only offered Crawford a one-year deal. Could they have offered more money had they bought out Smith? Sure. But I don't think a one-year deal was ever going to keep Corey in CHI.

 

[Hinterland]

So should he not be a center? Isn’t taking faceoffs a job of a center?

Not necessarily, no. There are quite a few Wingers known for being good at faceoffs. JT Miller or Blake Wheeler for example. There are also lots of Centers shifted to Wing taking faceoffs for their Centerman. Tomas Hertl or Claude Giroux did a lot of that lately.

You gotta win at least 45% to take faceoffs on a regular basis or you're giving away way too much possession. Losing faceoffs in your own zone or even on the PK is legit dangerous. Colliton did give Dach way too many of those. I like him as a Coach but that was downright dumb. Let Dach work on faceoffs in practice and have somebody else take faceoffs for him until he's got skill and confidence to win about every 2nd faceoff at least.

 

[BobbyJet]

Down the 2 way player path, but that doesn't mean his offense should take a back seat (e.g. Hossa & Toews). Not saying he should mirror those guys, just pattern his game similarly to theirs.

Dach wants be an elite, complete player. Gotta be a 2 way guy to be that.

Dach is a natural two-way player. It's his overpassing and tendency to do that extra dangle ahead of simpler north-south hockey that he needs to work on - and come to the realization that what worked in the past won't necessarily translate to the NHL. Shoot and shoot often at this stage in his career and he will have more freedom to be creative when the opportunity presents itself.

 

[featherhawk]

which wings/type of wins do you think that is?

Honestly, I'm all for prioritizing giving Dach the ideal linemates and figuring out the rest of the lineup from there.

Assuming Shaw is a go

Cat-Toews-Kane
Kubalik-Dach-Kurashev/Suter
Janmark/Shaw-Strome-Kurashev/Suter
Janmark/Shaw-Wallmark-Carpenter/Kampf/Nylander

 

[Joe Scaduto]

Kubalik Toews Kane
DeBrincat Dach Suter
Janmark Wallmark Strome
Carpenter Kampf Nylander

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Kubalik Toews Kane
DeBrincat Dach Suter
Janmark Wallmark Strome
Carpenter Kampf Nylander

If Strome is going to be a third line winger, shouldn’t the Hawks just trade his rights to a team that will actually use him at center? Maybe get a winger that can actually play on the Toews or Dach line in return

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Assuming Shaw is a go

Cat-Toews-Kane
Kubalik-Dach-Kurashev/Suter
Janmark/Shaw-Strome-Kurashev/Suter
Janmark/Shaw-Wallmark-Carpenter/Kampf/Nylander

You like that Cat-Toews-Kane line huh? The idea of that line certainly intrigues me

 

[CallMeShaft]

Suter Toews Kubalik
Janmark Dach Kane
DeBrincat Strome Nylander
Kampf Wallmark Carpenter/Shaw

Suter gets to play with his countryman, who has grown a bit of chemistry with Toews. Janmark gets one of the 'lottery spots' playing alongside Dach and Kane, who will be all that line needs to be dominant offensively; Janmark can cover for Kane defensively and could help with faceoffs if need be. Nylander gets the mediocre 3rd line winger role where he won't be counted on to contribute in anyway; the other two should at least be able to generate offense and Cat will get plenty of PP minutes as well. 4th line is simple, outside of who sits if Shaw can play.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Suter Toews Kubalik
Janmark Dach Kane
DeBrincat Strome Nylander
Kampf Wallmark Carpenter/Shaw

Suter gets to play with his countryman, who has grown a bit of chemistry with Toews. Janmark gets one of the 'lottery spots' playing alongside Dach and Kane, who will be all that line needs to be dominant offensively; Janmark can cover for Kane defensively and could help with faceoffs if need be. Nylander gets the mediocre 3rd line winger role where he won't be counted on to contribute in anyway; the other two should at least be able to generate offense and Cat will get plenty of PP minutes as well. 4th line is simple, outside of who sits if Shaw can play.

I like this.

The only thing may be that DeBrincat got a lot of even strength minutes in the playoffs, second most on the team only behind Kane. Do you think Colliton keeps him in a heavy minute role, or scales back his even strength time?

 

[CallMeShaft]

I like this.

The only thing may be that DeBrincat got a lot of even strength minutes in the playoffs, second most on the team only behind Kane. Do you think Colliton keeps him in a heavy minute role, or scales back his even strength time?

I could see Cat getting double shifted if he is starting on the 3rd line with Strome. In this scenario, with a guy like Janmark at 2LW, could see a lot of Cat with Dach and Kane on offensive zone faceoffs.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

I could see Cat getting double shifted if he is starting on the 3rd line with Strome. In this scenario, with a guy like Janmark at 2LW, could see a lot of Cat with Dach and Kane on offensive zone faceoffs.

I like that quite a bit. And maybe some double shifting of Kane down with DeBrincat and Strome too?

 

[Hinterland]

I could see Cat getting double shifted if he is starting on the 3rd line with Strome. In this scenario, with a guy like Janmark at 2LW, could see a lot of Cat with Dach and Kane on offensive zone faceoffs.

Yeah and who wins the faceoffs? Kane? Because if the puck goes the other way with Kane and DeBrincat both on the ice, that wouldn't be ideal.
Also, Janmark shouldn't be on any scoring line. 4th lines or shutdown units with tough assignments plus PK. But he'd ruin every scoring line he's on. Zero creativity and hands of stone.

 

[featherhawk]

You like that Cat-Toews-Kane line huh? The idea of that line certainly intrigues me

Ya I do and I think the line would play to each players strengths, Cat a scorer, Toews doing everything he does well and Kane the elite playmaker & scorer...

 

[featherhawk]

Suter Toews Kubalik
Janmark Dach Kane
DeBrincat Strome Nylander
Kampf Wallmark Carpenter/Shaw

Suter gets to play with his countryman, who has grown a bit of chemistry with Toews. Janmark gets one of the 'lottery spots' playing alongside Dach and Kane, who will be all that line needs to be dominant offensively; Janmark can cover for Kane defensively and could help with faceoffs if need be. Nylander gets the mediocre 3rd line winger role where he won't be counted on to contribute in anyway; the other two should at least be able to generate offense and Cat will get plenty of PP minutes as well. 4th line is simple, outside of who sits if Shaw can play.

don't mind the top two lines but that third line has been tried already and with little success, frankly with the acquisition of Wallmark and Janmark, youngsters like Suter and Kurashev and Shaw being healthy, Nylander's spot is far from a given and the same is likely the case for one or two of Highmore/kampf/carpenter .

the depth is much, much better

by the way Kubalik has stated that he likes to play the LW over RW, so IMO that is where he should be played, give that guy the wing he wants, perhaps he just has more comfort with his release from that side of the ice.

 

[Hinterland]

Suter Toews Kubalik
Janmark Dach Kane
DeBrincat Strome Nylander
Kampf Wallmark Carpenter/Shaw

Suter gets to play with his countryman, who has grown a bit of chemistry with Toews. Janmark gets one of the 'lottery spots' playing alongside Dach and Kane, who will be all that line needs to be dominant offensively; Janmark can cover for Kane defensively and could help with faceoffs if need be. Nylander gets the mediocre 3rd line winger role where he won't be counted on to contribute in anyway; the other two should at least be able to generate offense and Cat will get plenty of PP minutes as well. 4th line is simple, outside of who sits if Shaw can play.

1.) Kubalik isn't Swiss. Wish he was but he's not

2.) Janmark and Nylander are offensive blackholes, tearing down any scoring line they're on. Janmark's career faceoff percentage is 38,1% and Nylander finally should be given time to develop in Europe or minors without continously being put in nhl games.

3.) Still don't think playing the fastest and the slowest player on the same line is necessarily a good idea. They're also completely different stylewise as one likes to play fast and create chances on the rush, beat defenders with speed and skill while the other one likes to hold on to the puck and dominate possession.

 

[CallMeShaft]

1.) Kubalik isn't Swiss. Wish he was but he's not

2.) Janmark and Nylander are offensive blackholes, tearing down any scoring line they're on. Janmark's career faceoff percentage is 38,1% and Nylander finally should be given time to develop in Europe or minors without continously being put in nhl games.

3.) Still don't think playing the fastest and the slowest player on the same line is necessarily a good idea. They're also completely different stylewise as one likes to play fast and create chances on the rush, beat defenders with speed and skill while the other one likes to hold on to the puck and dominate possession.

1. Okay fine, his fellow former (will be come the NHL return) NL player.

2. The faceoff comment was in reference to him being a lefty and Dach a righty. Even if Janmark sucks at faceoffs, unless Dach has mastered the dot on both sides, a guy who can win them as a lefty isn't terrible. I just ignore anything you ever say about Nylander. I mean I'm no fan, but you are something else with regards to him.

3. Slowest player? Who, Strome? Because no one else in that group is slow, merely average or better. Is this you complementing Nylander's skating, because that might be a first.

 

[HockeySauce]

Nylander produced 1.98 Pp60 last year, which was just below Saad. He very clearly has some warts with his game, but he's not an offensive blackhole.

 

[Hinterland]

Nylander produced 1.98 Pp60 last year, which was just below Saad. He very clearly has some warts with his game, but he's not an offensive blackhole.

1,93 says nhl.com. Plus some outstanding 0,00 in the playoffs. And two points over almost 1,5 hours of powerplay time last season. Amazing. Also, Nylander is useless when not scoring. He's mostly out of position against the puck, he's not strong enough to keep the puck or win board battles or be efficient as a fore- or backchecker. And pucks are often dying on his stick because his decision making is far too slow. It was pretty evident in the playoffs. He's not thinking the game fast enough and that's probably because he was never given time to develop in Europe or the minors. He's constantly thrown into nhl games ever since turning pro. He got his development ruined by the Sabres and I don't see why you'd want to repeat that mistake.

 

[Hinterland]

1. Okay fine, his fellow former (will be come the NHL return) NL player.

2. The faceoff comment was in reference to him being a lefty and Dach a righty. Even if Janmark sucks at faceoffs, unless Dach has mastered the dot on both sides, a guy who can win them as a lefty isn't terrible. I just ignore anything you ever say about Nylander. I mean I'm no fan, but you are something else with regards to him.

3. Slowest player? Who, Strome? Because no one else in that group is slow, merely average or better. Is this you complementing Nylander's skating, because that might be a first.

Dach hasn't mastered anything in terms of faceoffs. Same goes for Janmark. Dach needs somebody who can take the faceoffs, not some friggin Janmark who's almost just as bad as him. Janmark may be a lefty but he can't win faceoffs. Opponents would just get the puck 2 out of 3 times after a faceoff vs that line. That's not acceptable.

 

[Pez68]

That's definitely how you get a young center to improve on faceoffs. You don't have him play center, or have someone take faceoffs for him.... What better way for him to learn how to win faceoffs against NHL centermen than preventing him from doing so! Brilliant developmental plan.

Get the f*** out of here with that nonsense. This team isn't trying to a win a cup. If Dach sucks at faceoffs the majority of the season, but learns and improves from that, GREAT.

I played center most of my competitive hockey career, and still play center to this day, in beer league. The only way you get good at faceoffs....is taking them. Against every center you possibly can. Because the only way to learn how to beat some guys in the faceoff circle....is by losing the faceoff to them, and learning from it. Each and every centerman, has their own technique, and nuance, when taking a draw. You HAVE to battle them in the dot, to figure that out. I've had guys I played against that DOMINATED me in the circle for the first 10+ faceoffs we took. After that? I figured them out, and at worst, went 50%.

The lack of knowledge and experience in some of the responses here is nauseating.

If you know jack shit about taking faceoffs, don't pretend to know what you're talking about, and just shut up.

 

[Hinterland]

That's definitely how you get a young center to improve on faceoffs. You don't have him play center, or have someone take faceoffs for him.... What better way for him to learn how to win faceoffs against NHL centermen than preventing him from doing so! Brilliant developmental plan.

Get the f*** out of here with that nonsense. This team isn't trying to a win a cup. If Dach sucks at faceoffs the majority of the season, but learns and improves from that, GREAT.

I played center most of my competitive hockey career, and still play center to this day, in beer league. The only way you get good at faceoffs....is taking them. Against every center you possibly can. Because the only way to learn how to beat some guys in the faceoff circle....is by losing the faceoff to them, and learning from it. Each and every centerman, has their own technique, and nuance, when taking a draw. You HAVE to battle them in the dot, to figure that out. I've had guys I played against that DOMINATED me in the circle for the first 10+ faceoffs we took. After that? I figured them out, and at worst, went 50%.

The lack of knowledge and experience in some of the responses here is nauseating.

If you know jack shit about taking faceoffs, don't pretend to know what you're talking about, and just shut up.

Well. During last seasons playoffs, the Blackhawks were trying to win a cup...yet still Colliton kept on letting Dach lose important faceoffs.

You don't improve by taking faceoffs in games. Maybe a few of them to have enough video material. Beyond that it's much more likely that you'll get frustrated than to actually learn from continously losing faceoffs.

The only way to learn it is, as always, hard work. Hard work and repetition in practice. Dach has the ultimate role model on his team. Have him learn from the master himself...for hours and hours.

Having him win 5 from 15 in games isn't gonna help Dach but it's gonna hurt the team.

I agree that different Centermen have different styles or techniques that could cause you trouble or need you to adjust but most of it is really just about yourself and how good you are. Some guys enter the league and win more than 50% from game 1, some can't even win 1 of 4. Some of it may be talent but a lot of it is just hard work. The 10-15 faceoffs you take in games will do shit. Ask Auston Matthews how many he took in practice to get his percentage up. You'd be surprised. He was notorious. And he was never quite as bad as Dach.

 

[BK]

You 100% improve by take faceoffs during the game. Ever heard of experience? Practice and video are an important aspect as well but saying you don’t improve by taking faceoffs in game is completely wrong.

 

[Hinterland]

You 100% improve by take faceoffs during the game. Ever heard of experience? Practice and video are an important aspect as well but saying you don’t improve by taking faceoffs in game is completely wrong.

You need a certain level to be able to learn from your mistakes and at 31%, I don't think Dach is quite there yet. Taking faceoffs in games on a regular basis is more likely to frustrate him. And no, eating whoppers doesn't help either

 

[Pez68]

Well. During last seasons playoffs, the Blackhawks were trying to win a cup...yet still Colliton kept on letting Dach lose important faceoffs.

You don't improve by taking faceoffs in games. Maybe a few of them to have enough video material. Beyond that it's much more likely that you'll get frustrated than to actually learn from continously losing faceoffs.

The only way to learn it is, as always, hard work. Hard work and repetition in practice. Dach has the ultimate role model on his team. Have him learn from the master himself...for hours and hours.

Having him win 5 from 15 in games isn't gonna help Dach but it's gonna hurt the team.

I agree that different Centermen have different styles or techniques that could cause you trouble or need you to adjust but most of it is really just about yourself and how good you are. Some guys enter the league and win more than 50% from game 1, some can't even win 1 of 4. Some of it may be talent but a lot of it is just hard work. The 10-15 faceoffs you take in games will do shit. Ask Auston Matthews how many he took in practice to get his percentage up. You'd be surprised. He was notorious. And he was never quite as bad as Dach.

You need a certain level to be able to learn from your mistakes and at 31%, I don't think Dach is quite there yet. Taking faceoffs in games on a regular basis is more likely to frustrate him. And no, eating whoppers doesn't help either