Boston Bruins 2020-2021 Roster Discussion V - STAY ON TOPIC

[Tbaybruin]

We won a lot of games because of of special teams last year. We lost our PP QB and we might loose our best penalty killing D man.

 

[Bumper]

relative plus/minus. relative. go study it and NEVER use ignorance to bully.

 

[Tbaybruin]

It’s an absolutely broken stat that shouldn’t be used for measurement. All it measures is that you were on the ice for a goal for or a goal against. You could have zero to do with the play. How is that a stat to take serious?

Example I like to use to show how dumb this stat is and why it shouldn’t be taken seriously:

a few seasons ago, Carlo received a pass from Krug. He was weak on the pass up the boards and (iirc) Dvorak picked him off, walked in a scored. Everyone on the ice got a minus for this play, despite Carlo being the only reason for the GA.

Hypothetical example:

Clean face off win by Bergeron to McAvoy. He passes over to Chara who launches a bullet and scores. All Bruins get a + but only three of them were really involved in the play. Opposing team all gets a minus.

it’s a broken stat to me. Shouldn’t be taken seriously.

Thing balance out though the coarse of the season. Good two way players have high plus minus. Do you think Bobby Orrs plus minus should be taken seriously?

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

Thing balance out though the coarse of the season. Good two way players have high plus minus. Do you think Bobby Orrs plus minus should be taken seriously?

I take his production seriously. Of course his plus/minus is going to be high. I just don’t care for the stat.

 

[Fenian24]

And the reason the offseason is indisputably a failure is that Sweeney was publicly in on numerous impact players, such as Hall and Hoffman. If ever there was a year to add in the UFA market, it was this one. Talent was fairly deep, prices were relatively low, and terms were short.

I don't believe Sweeney was in on anything. They probably targeted a cheap, effective player in Smith and that was it.

If you truly believe Sweeney was in on all these players it means one thing, he is inept at his his job. If he was really looking to improve this team he failed miserably.

Zboril, Vaak and the all prospects D isn't making up for losing Krug and Chara. They have taken a huge step back on D. Maybe the forwards will be better than last year with Smith, Kase and Nick Ritchie here all year but I don't think it will make up for how terrible this D is going to be.

Any team going with Matt Grzelcyk on their top pair has to be in serious doubt of making the playoffs, never mind being a contender.

Hopefully they have an angry Ritchie and dress Frederic every game so they will at least be watchable.

 

[Blowfish]

It’s an absolutely broken stat that shouldn’t be used for measurement. All it measures is that you were on the ice for a goal for or a goal against. You could have zero to do with the play. How is that a stat to take serious?

Example I like to use to show how dumb this stat is and why it shouldn’t be taken seriously:

a few seasons ago, Carlo received a pass from Krug. He was weak on the pass up the boards and (iirc) Dvorak picked him off, walked in a scored. Everyone on the ice got a minus for this play, despite Carlo being the only reason for the GA.

Hypothetical example:

Clean face off win by Bergeron to McAvoy. He passes over to Chara who launches a bullet and scores. All Bruins get a + but only three of them were really involved in the play. Opposing team all gets a minus.

it’s a broken stat to me. Shouldn’t be taken seriously.

It's not the only stat but it certainly isn't a broken stat...Players and GMs certainly pay attention to it when negotiations take place.

Note Approximately 75% of the game is played at even-strength -- and the plus/minus is (more of) an even-strength stat -- you have to consider it a significant statistic but like others have said it doesn't give the total picture.

Works great for D minded teams and the bruin players certainly benefit from that play style. Chara leading the way.

 

[sarge88]

It’s an absolutely broken stat that shouldn’t be used for measurement. All it measures is that you were on the ice for a goal for or a goal against. You could have zero to do with the play. How is that a stat to take serious?

Example I like to use to show how dumb this stat is and why it shouldn’t be taken seriously:

a few seasons ago, Carlo received a pass from Krug. He was weak on the pass up the boards and (iirc) Dvorak picked him off, walked in a scored. Everyone on the ice got a minus for this play, despite Carlo being the only reason for the GA.

Hypothetical example:

Clean face off win by Bergeron to McAvoy. He passes over to Chara who launches a bullet and scores. All Bruins get a + but only three of them were really involved in the play. Opposing team all gets a minus.

it’s a broken stat to me. Shouldn’t be taken seriously.

Personally, I only look at it when it's an aberration or extreme.

If a guy is a -20 on a team filled with players +10 or better, it probably has some meaning.

Also, if a guy is a +35 or -35, it also probably has some meaning.

 

[TobanWest]

So Chara, Krug, Nordstrom out and Craig Smith in. Not quite the offseason I had hoped for. For the life of me I can't pinpoint what the definitive reason is that's behind being such a boring, uninspired and sad organization when it comes to solidifying a team. Not that I want to keep Chara but him and Krug had the biggest hearts and we're loved. Not sure how sticking by Ritchie, Khulman and Bjork will turn out but my guess will by boring.
Why can't this teams management do anything of impact while I see other teams just make things happen. Seeing the Habs add all that they did should make this year's Bruins piss themselves. Only answers they have to any type of toughness is a slow and lazy Ritchie, Frederic who I love but will be blocked by turds like Khulman, and a broken and may never be the same Miller.
Where is the grit and skill this core deserves in there last couple years together. So f**king embarassing. Shouldnt be surprised as this is the same organization that trades high end talent. And is terrified of fixing a 5 year 2nd wing problem. This team is swimming upstream until we see the Jacobs family sell, Neely and Sweeny get on the same page or an individual with passion and balls steps up.

 

[analyser]

It is going to be a tough year going against Tampa, Washington,
Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Isles, plus on a regular basis.

They knew the revised divisional alignment for sometime but did not improve the team accordingly. Sweeney and Neely both suck and need to work outside of the hockey industry. At least get away from the Bruins before the team is beyond repair.

 

[ranold26]

I'm starting to think salary/cash flow is the major concern for the Bruins, than cap hits and cap room are.
The Bruins only have 67m in salaries this season and they seem risk averse in adding more.
The scary thing is that they already have 50m in salary committed for 2021-2022 and only 11/23 roster spots on the books.

 

[Over the volcano]

Their deadline moves last year weren’t rentals.

Compare the club going into this season to the one that went into last. The forward group is a LOT better and deeper. The defense is just gutted though, and that’s going to be rough come playoff time.

 

[JOKER 192]

How many of those 50 could they sign today on a team friendly deal? Get er done Sweeney!

If it's a team friendly deal (1M) and it's for a bottom pairing, PK, won't play several games roll then I'm all in on Chara. If it's for 3M 1st line pairing , it's a hard pass. I don't object to Chara in the right roll. I object to describing him as a top5 in the league.

 

[JOKER 192]

If there are only 50 you can come up with I’d love to have him back. That means he’s a back end #2

Well, I haven't done the leg work , I just threw out a number I'm sure I can reach based on every team has a better Dman than Chara and most have 2 and some even 3 and 4. Again I have no objection to bringing back Chara in the right roll.

 

[JOKER 192]

It’s an absolutely broken stat that shouldn’t be used for measurement. All it measures is that you were on the ice for a goal for or a goal against. You could have zero to do with the play. How is that a stat to take serious?

Example I like to use to show how dumb this stat is and why it shouldn’t be taken seriously:

a few seasons ago, Carlo received a pass from Krug. He was weak on the pass up the boards and (iirc) Dvorak picked him off, walked in a scored. Everyone on the ice got a minus for this play, despite Carlo being the only reason for the GA.

Hypothetical example:

Clean face off win by Bergeron to McAvoy. He passes over to Chara who launches a bullet and scores. All Bruins get a + but only three of them were really involved in the play. Opposing team all gets a minus.

it’s a broken stat to me. Shouldn’t be taken seriously.

Beyond all that.

Does a player who played for a bottom feeder have the same chance as a top tier team to collect positive +/- stats?
Does a Dman who get's mostly D-zone starts have the same chance as a player who gets mostly O-zone start to collect positive O-zone stats?
Does a player playing for a team that has a Vezina level goalie have the same chance as a player playing for a team who has a bottom tier goalie?
Does a player playing for a team that plays a defensive game have the same chance as a player that plays a more offensive style?
Does a player playing with a meh top pairing D have the same chance as a player playing with a top level pairing D ?

I mean, there is a lot of context to add to this stat. Is it totally irrelevant? No. Is it the metric one should use to grade Dmen ? No. Is it the only metric one should use to grade Dmen? F+++ no.

 

[Beesfan]

I don't believe Sweeney was in on anything. They probably targeted a cheap, effective player in Smith and that was it.

If you truly believe Sweeney was in on all these players it means one thing, he is inept at his his job. If he was really looking to improve this team he failed miserably.

Zboril, Vaak and the all prospects D isn't making up for losing Krug and Chara. They have taken a huge step back on D. Maybe the forwards will be better than last year with Smith, Kase and Nick Ritchie here all year but I don't think it will make up for how terrible this D is going to be.

Any team going with Matt Grzelcyk on their top pair has to be in serious doubt of making the playoffs, never mind being a contender.

Hopefully they have an angry Ritchie and dress Frederic every game so they will at least be watchable.

This was exactly the point I was making. I wouldn't call Sweeney an inept GM, overall I think he is very good, but he does not understand what it takes to get a deal done with a player that is not already deeply invested in the Boston community.

 

[Dizzay]

Chara will be back! Bruins are a f***load deeper than they were going into 19-20 season. They'll make a move at he deadline if Kase can't produce on Krejci's RW and if their top 4 D needs improvement.

Kase can put up 15-18 in a 54 game schedule with Krejci. Debrusk similar or better. Perfection line speaks for itself. Coyle + Smith + Ritchie/Bjork/Studicka/Senyshyn. That's 4 guys we can try with Coyle and Smith to make a great 3rd line. Our 4th line is proven in my opinion.

Everyone remember when a young Carlo made the team basically out of nowhere? Well we haven't looked back since. No reason Zboril and/or Vaak can't do the same this season.

Yes it would have been nice to add someone other than Craig Smith but maybe, as someone else posted above, our deadline moves in 19-20 were meant to be 2 year projects. Call me over optimistic but I'm fired up to see what this team can do

 

[JOKER 192]

It's not the only stat but it certainly isn't a broken stat...Players and GMs certainly pay attention to it when negotiations take place.

Note Approximately 75% of the game is played at even-strength -- and the plus/minus is (more of) an even-strength stat -- you have to consider it a significant statistic but like others have said it doesn't give the total picture.

Works great for D minded teams and the bruin players certainly benefit from that play style. Chara leading the way.

But you used it as the only stat to determine that Chara was top5.

 

[GloveSave1]

Unpopular opinion...I think Gryz will put up similar points to Krug. He’s skilled enough and he’ll slide right into all the situations.

The whole Krug -> Gryz thing I don’t worry about. The biggest downside will be in heart and toughness...and let’s be honest...we all love the little guy...but him throwing his weight around didn’t amount to much but an emotional lift. Not saying that’s nothing...Krug was a great teammate...but I’m just not expecting a catastrophic drop off. Gryz will slide in nicely.

 

[Sheppy]

I’m honestly just hoping Kase plays more than 40 games and produces. I just always hold my breath when the dude has the puck, his head is down like 90% of the time. He’s one green light hit away from a statistic.

 

[Blowfish]

But you used it as the only stat to determine that Chara was top5.

I used it as a stat...yes.

 

[Sheppy]

Unpopular opinion...I think Gryz will put up similar points to Krug. He’s skilled enough and he’ll slide right into all the situations.

The whole Krug -> Gryz thing I don’t worry about. The biggest downside will be in heart and toughness...and let’s be honest...we all love the little guy...but him throwing his weight around didn’t amount to much but an emotional lift. Not saying that’s nothing...Krug was a great teammate...but I’m just not expecting a catastrophic drop off. Gryz will slide in nicely.

I find people are super one sided when talking about Krug. “He’s bad defensively” - I mean, sure, he’s not great defensively... but then when you bring up the offense it’s “wELl tHeY wErE mOsTly PP pOInTS!”

I think people completely undervalue the fact that he’s an elite power play guy, and makes it that much more lethal.

McAvoy is the next best d-man offensively, and then there’s an absolute cliff to the next.

 

[JOKER 192]

I used it as a stat...yes.

You used it as the only one. If we look at other stats he's not even in the top 50.

 

[Blowfish]

You used it as the only one. If we look at other stats he's not even in the top 50.

I only shared one stat. You didn't share any.

 

[Over the volcano]

You used it as the only one. If we look at other stats he's not even in the top 50.

That’s true for any player in the league. What’s not true for most is that they’re in the top 5 of any.

But if you want some more top 5 in the NHL Chara stats from last year you could look up defensive zone start % or PK minutes.

 

[JOKER 192]

Despite the disappointment of the off-season, I'm Jones-ing to get the season started. I would really like to see many of our prospects be given a chance. It's sink or swim and the Bruins will be good enough to make it to TDL where acquisitions can be made. I want to see TFred, Kase, Stud, Zboril, Seny, Ritchie, Lauzon and Cliffton all be given a fair chance. Let's see what we got, it's way passed time.