2020/2021 Around the League Thread | Part 3

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StreetHawk

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I wonder if this is an escalating thing?

Most - virtually all? - athletes decline in their 30's, of course the truly exceptional ones can hang on and even perform at elite or near elite levels, but has it become even more pronounced as the decades march on?

Like, if a body only has so many miles in it, are we going to see in the coming decades younger players enter the league in greater numbers, and older players being unable to compete in their late 20's?
You can always point to a couple of players who play well later in their careers. Like Gio winning a Norris at 35 a couple years back. Ok. But, that's not the norm.

But, it's always been the case that when a 29/30 year old comes up for a contract, teams have no issues retaining them for the maximum term. SJ held onto Vlasic and Burns until they are what like 38 and 40?

See if there is going to be a shift where teams are more willing to take the cap hit for a 5 year term, based on the real money that goes out. Like Jamie Benn got signed at 28 for 8 years but his production has already declined. He was at like $9.5. But to drop him down to 5 or 6 year term that cap hit would be closer to $11 or $11.5 mill as a 34 year old Benn wouldn't command much in the market given the declining production.

Players around age 30 will and should view that contract as their last one and go get term. That's the rules of the CBA with 8/7 year max terms. That's the other side of the coin in contract negotiations.
 
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I am toxic

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It goes in cycles.

Careers in the 1970s were long.

Careers in the 80s/early 90s were very short.

Careers in the DPE and early 2000s got longer again.

But in the last 10 years, careers are getting shorter and shorter. Almost nobody aside from former superstars is playing well past their early 30s.

Am wondering if that correlates to expansion and influx of Europeans. Probably too many variables to really conclude anything, but yeah, definitely cyclical
 

MS

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Am wondering if that correlates to expansion and influx of Europeans. Probably too many variables to really conclude anything, but yeah, definitely cyclical

Mostly related to expansion and Europeans, yeah. And the improvements in off-ice fitness and conditioning during the 1990s.

Diluted product in the 1970s with expansion from 6-->18 teams + WHA = long careers.

League settles down to 21 teams + has Euro influx = shorter careers.

League bloats up to 30 teams plus there's a revolution in off-ice conditioning = longer careers again.

League has sat at ~30 teams for almost 20 years now = careers shortening back up as player development improves.
 

StreetHawk

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So jealous of Montreal. Tema is 9-5-4 and it's not good enough so they fire some people.
I get everyone is ticket and angry, but for Vancouver, it starts at the Top.

Firing Benning right now does what? Likely someone internally takes over.

I'd rather the Canucks actually go and interview the top 2nd in command of other teams like FLA did with Zito from CBS, the way that TB promoted Briseboise after Yzerman stepped down. I'd like to see the team meet with those candidates as well, and not limit themselves to the likes of Lombardi, Futa, etc. who are not currently employed.

This isn't Pitt that needs to maximize these final 2 years with Sid and Geno under contract together. It's now or never for their next Cup (in the 2020's). Plus, being a US team, most of the candidates don't have to quaratine when they start like they would in Vancouver.
 

mriswith

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Oct 12, 2011
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Not that interested in Julien. Lots of complaints for lots of years about how he deals with young players. Also how inflexible he is. To some extent that's every coach but our team doesn't need that right now.

Maybe if Gallant weren't still available it'd be more appealing.
 

Josepho

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Jan 1, 2015
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It's definitely hard to justify this firing especially when there's basically no marquee french-speaking coaches available.
 

Snatcher Demko

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Mostly related to expansion and Europeans, yeah. And the improvements in off-ice fitness and conditioning during the 1990s.

Diluted product in the 1970s with expansion from 6-->18 teams + WHA = long careers.

League settles down to 21 teams + has Euro influx = shorter careers.

League bloats up to 30 teams plus there's a revolution in off-ice conditioning = longer careers again.

League has sat at ~30 teams for almost 20 years now = careers shortening back up as player development improves.


Interesting - great insight
 

krutovsdonut

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Sep 25, 2016
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montreal has lost their minds unless they are just finalizing details on the replacement who someone else was potentially going to scoop.

gerard gallant is a french sounding name.
 

canuckking1

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The habs had a slew of 2nd round picks and had a desperate need for PMD. Not sure how they let Toews slip out of their hands and instead brought another slow big body defender like Edmundson into the mix.
 

SeawaterOnIce

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It goes in cycles.

Careers in the 1970s were long.

Careers in the 80s/early 90s were very short.

Careers in the DPE and early 2000s got longer again.

But in the last 10 years, careers are getting shorter and shorter. Almost nobody aside from former superstars is playing well past their early 30s.

I think it boils down to the newer generation of players thinking twice about extending their careers and potential risk to life altering injuries, fatigue and lost time.

Knew a buddy from my old soccer team in Italy that had a short pro European football career. His pro career lasted about 8 years but the overall sentiment among the players has shifted from "you play till your body cannot" to "you play till you get that big contract." He was able to secure a decent contract and immediately began to emotionally divest from the game while putting his earnings into post-retirement savings. It was well known in that town that his primary ambition was to retire early and have a family. A shame though since he had world class talent.
 
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Scorvat

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Julien seems to install good systems and his team all are at least mediocre with good underlying metrics, but he has only made the playoffs once* (Covid cup) in the last 6 years with 2 of the most rich and storied franchises. Not like he has not had plenty of talent on his teams either, that always seem to under perform with him
 
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sting101

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The habs had a slew of 2nd round picks and had a desperate need for PMD. Not sure how they let Toews slip out of their hands and instead brought another slow big body defender like Edmundson into the mix.
The Edmundson Petry pairing is one of the best in the league right now?
 

canuckking1

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The Edmundson Petry pairing is one of the best in the league right now?

I'm not saying Edmundson has been bad but he's basically the same player Chiarot is. It's very redundant and you can see it in the lack of mobility on the Habs blue line. Among the top 4, Petry is really the only one that can skate.
 

sting101

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I agree. He’s generally done a pretty poor job minus a few trades and signings. Kotkaniemi in general was also a huge miss.
Really?

Unloaded Subban before the albatross contract for Weber
traded Pacioretty for Suzuki Tatar and a 2nd
Galchenyuk for Domi for Anderson
Weise and Fleishmann for Danault and 2nd (Romanov)
Toffoli and Edmundson on good contracts
S.Bourque for Armia
Shaw for a 2nd
2nd and 4th for Petry
 

sting101

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I'm not saying Edmundson has been bad but he's basically the same player Chiarot is. It's very redundant and you can see it in the lack of mobility on the Habs blue line. Among the top 4, Petry is really the only one that can skate.
I don't think their D is an issue. Romanov will be a top pair in no time and has plenty of mobility. He's just really raw and young

The giant issue for them is 6 goals from the top3 lines Centres. That is awful

By comparison the Leafs 28 Oilers 25 Jets 17 Canucks 23 Flames 11......its a big issue in Calgary also. The Jets have Dubois now so you can expect them to balance it out if they want
 

MS

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Really?

Unloaded Subban before the albatross contract for Weber
traded Pacioretty for Suzuki Tatar and a 2nd
Galchenyuk for Domi for Anderson
Weise and Fleishmann for Danault and 2nd (Romanov)
Toffoli and Edmundson on good contracts
S.Bourque for Armia
Shaw for a 2nd
2nd and 4th for Petry

Bergevin is a weird GM.

He's probably been the best trader in the NHL over the past 5 years - going hugely against popular wisdom in most of those cases - but he can't turn it into any tangible results.

Domi for Anderson is another that went against the consensus and looks like a home run.
 

Pastor Of Muppetz

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Oct 1, 2017
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I have a feeling that there is a greater urgency in Montreal to make the playoffs, than here in Vancouver..After splashing out all that cash in the off season, missing the playoffs would be a huge PR nightmare.

You almost get the vibe here, that the ownership is just going to ride this one out.
 
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