OT: 2019 Vancouver Whitecaps

[garbageteam]

I remember the Caps being something that people were proud to support earlier this decade, there was buzz and interest among the youth and a handful of younger people got involved in marketing, promotion and ticketing. I watched a ton of games the first three seasons live, more than I have the entire decade for the Canucks because the entertainment was good value for the money. Now they're just spinning their wheels on the heels of developing and selling one of the best Canadian soccer players today.

Realistically I don't think relocation is likely, primarily because the league sees the massive expansion fees ($200m+) and the willingness to pay by at least 3-4 remaining markets (not dissimilar to what the NHL is doing - avoiding relocation to avert having their expansion fees devalued). They'd rather expand to 34 and collect the cheques of all willing buyers than move a team. Columbus somehow averted what seemed like an certain move.

Oh well, result I think is actually good for Canadian soccer if embarrassing for the Whitecaps.

 

[VanJack]

Embarrassing franchise. Needs new ownership and a new front office, asap. Aquilini needs to step in here and make an investment.

They could bring in the most celebrated and knighted manager from the English Premiership and it wouldn't make one iota of difference to this sorry franchise in VanCity.

The hard reality is that the MLS is growing away from franchises in places like Vancouver, Portland, Salt Lake City and a number of other small NA markets. Once the MLS truly enters the major leagues, with budgets to match, there's a massive realignment ahead.

I'm almost at the point where I'd like to see a Canadian Professional Soccer League along the lines of the CFL. The really good Canadian players would still sign with the MLS or go overseas. But the travel budgets, salaries and stadium costs would be far more realistic and sustainable for Canadian franchises.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Hearing of some sort of announcement coming in the next few days.

 

[clunk]

They could bring in the most celebrated and knighted manager from the English Premiership and it wouldn't make one iota of difference to this sorry franchise in VanCity.

The hard reality is that the MLS is growing away from franchises in places like Vancouver, Portland, Salt Lake City and a number of other small NA markets. Once the MLS truly enters the major leagues, with budgets to match, there's a massive realignment ahead.

I'm almost at the point where I'd like to see a Canadian Professional Soccer League along the lines of the CFL. The really good Canadian players would still sign with the MLS or go overseas. But the travel budgets, salaries and stadium costs would be far more realistic and sustainable for Canadian franchises.

The NHL exists and does well with parity and small markets. I don't see why MLS can't achieve decent levels of parity while still bringing in star power. Vancouver could very well be a middle of the pack budget club no problem, and there's nothing wrong with that. They just need to get half decent owners.

You CAN do well with a lower half budget in this league and make runs. That's possible. Much more possible than the EPL and such... But I think a market like Vancouver either needs to have :

A: A perennial winner

or

B: An exciting team with star power to elevate it.

I think Vancouver has huge untapped potential for soccer just waiting to be taken advantage of, as we had some really respectable attendance numbers before it all came crashing down. This turn around will require new ownership willing to open their wallets and either revitalise the franchise internally, sign some big names or both. I think we can do that in MLS, and I think losing our MLS spot would be a shame. I don't think you could attract the players a Vancouver franchise needs in order to stay afloat in anything other than MLS at this moment. It's a very demanding market, and a unique market. Whoever is running the front office of the Whitecaps needs to be aggressive in building a winner, none of this "Ajax North America" bs they're trying to peddle to penny pinch.

Aquilini would come in, let the manager sign some big names right off the bat (Italians probably) and put money into the club. I could even see the Whitecaps going from bottom of the barrel to top half spenders... He is surely thinking about it. If he isn't, he's not a very good businessman.

 

[Jyrki21]

The hard reality is that the MLS is growing away from franchises in places like Vancouver, Portland, Salt Lake City and a number of other small NA markets. Once the MLS truly enters the major leagues, with budgets to match, there's a massive realignment ahead.

Enh? Portland is one of MLS's darling franchises... RSL kind of used to be as well, although their star has faded in recent years. Portland and Seattle are exactly what every other MLS market strives to be... and it's embarrassing for Vancouver to be the redheaded step-child in the Cascadia trifecta.

I'm almost at the point where I'd like to see a Canadian Professional Soccer League along the lines of the CFL. The really good Canadian players would still sign with the MLS or go overseas. But the travel budgets, salaries and stadium costs would be far more realistic and sustainable for Canadian franchises.

That's literally what CPL is... and Calgary (who just beat the Whitecaps) is its premier team by a fair margin.

I think Vancouver has huge untapped potential for soccer just waiting to be taken advantage of, as we had some really respectable attendance numbers before it all came crashing down. This turn around will require new ownership willing to open their wallets and either revitalise the franchise internally, sign some big names or both.

I don't think it's untapped... Vancouver is historically the best Canadian market for domestic soccer, in large part due to the legacy of the '70s Whitecaps being good and the 86ers dominating Canadian pro soccer in the '80s and early '90s. The city embraced the Whitecaps wholeheartedly when they moved to MLS, and there was realistic talk of opening the tarps and getting Seattle-like crowds.

Ownership has just utterly killed the enthusiasm. To be clear, it's not strictly about spending. The Whitecaps actually used to spend in the upper half of the league up until a few years ago (and then behemoths showed up in Atlanta and LAFC and threw everything out of whack). It's that they have virtually no talent scouting network to speak of, so whatever they do spend isn't necessarily done very wisely. They could spend all of the Davies money in one fell swoop and I guarantee they'd still have a bad team.

 

[Derp Kassian]

Paul Chapman nailed it https://www.tsn.ca/radio/vancouver-...an-embarrassment-from-top-to-bottom-1.1342146

 

[clunk]

I don't think it's untapped... Vancouver is historically the best Canadian market for domestic soccer, in large part due to the legacy of the '70s Whitecaps being good and the 86ers dominating Canadian pro soccer in the '80s and early '90s. The city embraced the Whitecaps wholeheartedly when they moved to MLS, and there was realistic talk of opening the tarps and getting Seattle-like crowds.

Ownership has just utterly killed the enthusiasm. To be clear, it's not strictly about spending. The Whitecaps actually used to spend in the upper half of the league up until a few years ago (and then behemoths showed up in Atlanta and LAFC and threw everything out of whack). It's that they have virtually no talent scouting network to speak of, so whatever they do spend isn't necessarily done very wisely. They could spend all of the Davies money in one fell swoop and I guarantee they'd still have a bad team.

I think it is absolutely untapped considering how much the city has changed demographically from that time to now. There are less and less younger people attached to the hip with hockey and more interested in soccer and other sports. You have immigrants coming in from soccer hotbeds and not really loyal to the hockey establishment. Hell, you have Canadian born kids that are choosing other sports over hockey. It really is becoming less of an important thing in Vancouver. Back in the 70s, 80s and even 90s, the Canucks were the undisputed #1 team in Vancouver. They still are, but the interest levels have definitely dropped. The gap really isn't that big now. Sure, the Whitecaps have failed hard in taking advantage of the lull, but the Caps were drawing great attendance numbers when they were a middle of the pack/lower upper half team. I think as time goes on, the interest levels for soccer will only grow in Vancouver, and there is a huge potential base that is untapped, namely in immigrants and the youth, that the Caps could take full advantage of if they had a competent FO that could put together a successful franchise. No doubt in my mind.

I'm aware that it's not all about spending, but to keep the interest levels in this market, you're going to have to see some relatively big names soon. Hell, even Ali Adnan hyped up the entire Iraqi immigrant base in Vancouver; you'd have entire sections of Iraqis going to Whitecaps games to see Adnan. You see the same with Hwang and South Koreans.

 

[Tobi Wan Kenobi]

huh the gap isn't big? I'ts not close. Soccer sucks. Who want's to watch grown men roll and around and cry all game. I'ts like the 26th ranked soccer league in the world

 

[End on a Hinote]

huh the gap isn't big? I'ts not close. Soccer sucks. Who want's to watch grown men roll and around and cry all game. I'ts like the 26th ranked soccer league in the world

It's the 9th

 

[Jyrki21]

I think it is absolutely untapped considering how much the city has changed demographically from that time to now. There are less and less younger people attached to the hip with hockey and more interested in soccer and other sports. You have immigrants coming in from soccer hotbeds and not really loyal to the hockey establishment. Hell, you have Canadian born kids that are choosing other sports over hockey. It really is becoming less of an important thing in Vancouver. Back in the 70s, 80s and even 90s, the Canucks were the undisputed #1 team in Vancouver. They still are, but the interest levels have definitely dropped.

Believe it or not, the Canucks' monopoly over the sports scene is actually a more recent phenomenon. Many people (including me) disputed the idea that Vancouver was a "hockey town" – so much as a city with only a pro hockey team – up until the WCE days, really. When the Whitecaps were in their NASL heyday they had a much larger share of the market than they do now, regularly selling out Empire Stadium (which doubled the Coliseum in attendance). Even the Lions have had their moments in the sun.

What you have with newer populations in the Northwest is more interest in global soccer, but among the longstanding population domestic soccer has always been relatively big in the region (all of BC, Washington and Oregon) compared to the rest of North America. Again, it helped that the Whitecaps won a championship and the 86ers were the cream of the Canadian Soccer League, but it's also the climate, which is a lot friendlier to outdoor non-winter sports than the rest of Canada.

The market has always been comparatively ripe, and it's why it's such a lost opportunity by the Whitecaps, much as it was by the Grizzlies (basketball was always the #1 sport in my high school, even before the Grizzlies arrived, for example).

 

[Hit the post]

Believe it or not, the Canucks' monopoly over the sports scene is actually a more recent phenomenon. Many people (including me) disputed the idea that Vancouver was a "hockey town" – so much as a city with only a pro hockey team – up until the WCE days, really. When the Whitecaps were in their NASL heyday they had a much larger share of the market than they do now, regularly selling out Empire Stadium (which doubled the Coliseum in attendance). Even the Lions have had their moments in the sun.

What you have with newer populations in the Northwest is more interest in global soccer, but among the longstanding population domestic soccer has always been relatively big in the region (all of BC, Washington and Oregon) compared to the rest of North America. Again, it helped that the Whitecaps won a championship and the 86ers were the cream of the Canadian Soccer League, but it's also the climate, which is a lot friendlier to outdoor non-winter sports than the rest of Canada.

The market has always been comparatively ripe, and it's why it's such a lost opportunity by the Whitecaps, much as it was by the Grizzlies (basketball was always the #1 sport in my high school, even before the Grizzlies arrived, for example).

Likely in part due to the Whitecaps (NASL days) at their peak, really dominated (a shame only in the regular season save for that one magic year when they won it all). Still, they played entertaining attacking style (though somewhat predictable) 'football' unlike a number of other teams which were winning via sleep inducing defensive style. Canucks during this time, were in the pre-Quinn days (save for one brief moment in 1982, were mostly medicore). Lions had a long slumber period from the 60s when Kapp was the QB to just before the Vic Rapp era (and even then, the Rapp teams were routinely DESTROYED by the Esks time & time again).

 

[Javaman]

So, they are still tied 0-0 at halftime with Minnesota.

I think MLS should reward them with a half-point in the standings.

 

[Javaman]

So, they are still tied 0-0 at halftime with Minnesota.

I think MLS should reward them with a half-point in the standings.

Yes, they earned the second half of the full point!!!!

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Venuto sold to Santos. Montero appears to be next, they are trying to trade him within the MLS.

Whitecaps are trying to shed some more salary as the season is done anyways.

 

[Hit the post]

Venuto sold to Santos. Montero appears to be next, they are trying to trade him within the MLS.

Whitecaps are trying to shed some more salary as the season is done anyways.

I'd guess they would shed salary regardless. Owners gotta fund their diamond plated retirement fund somehow.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Slightly off topic, but congrats to Alphonso Davies on a spectacular goal for Bayern against Spurs..The commentator is hilarious "Who ever thought a Canadian teenager could pull this off"..lol

Former Whitecaps star Alphonso Davies scores highlight-reel goal for Bayern Munich (VIDEO) | Offside

 

[Jyrki21]

Slightly off topic, but congrats to Alphonso Davies on a spectacular goal for Bayern against Spurs..The commentator is hilarious "Who ever thought a Canadian teenager could pull this off"..lol

Former Whitecaps star Alphonso Davies scores highlight-reel goal for Bayern Munich (VIDEO) | Offside

On his weak foot, no less. I actually don't remember him scoring right-footed at all in Vancouver, although I could be wrong.

 

[clunk]

Well, it's something. Not exactly the big signing they needed to make but hopefully he's a decent replacement for Venuto?

 

[Lindgren]

I just heard from a season ticket holder that the 'Caps are waiving the usual September deadline for renewal. They're pushing it back to January, asking fans to be patient and wait to see the changes they'll be making.

 

[xtra]

I just heard from a season ticket holder that the 'Caps are waiving the usual September deadline for renewal. They're pushing it back to January, asking fans to be patient and wait to see the changes they'll be making.

Yikes you can smell the desperation here....gotta think Garber is gonna get involved soon

 

[clunk]

I just heard from a season ticket holder that the 'Caps are waiving the usual September deadline for renewal. They're pushing it back to January, asking fans to be patient and wait to see the changes they'll be making.

Nope. They can fire Lenarduzzi and overhaul the front office at any time. They're bringing in new scouts, which is fine, but Lenarduzzi is the problem. I'm not buying their 'changes' bs, and nobody else should until we see a concrete plan.

 

[Peen]

Those teams used to be so fun..

Morales with Laba and Koffie/Tiebert...



Their attendance and entertainment value was so good around then. Wasted opportunity to seize a market.

 

[trellaine201]

Those teams used to be so fun..

Morales with Laba and Koffie/Tiebert...



Their attendance and entertainment value was so good around then. Wasted opportunity to seize a market.

I agree things were much better before all the changes. Sure maybe they never made it far but they were exciting to watch. It’s pretty hard to watch since Marc Dos Santos came aboard. Almost painful. I can’t imagine forming out 50-60 bucks to watch.

 

[TruKnyte]

Can't remember the last time I went to a Whitecaps game. Don't really feel a need to change that anytime soon.

 

[bipolarhabfan]

Can't remember the last time I went to a Whitecaps game. Don't really feel a need to change that anytime soon.

I have not gone to a game since the home opener last season. Be a long time before I go again. No entertainment value at all. The hard negotiating tactics with Camilo years ago brought out what is the major concern for ownership and management, which is to save money. What makes it even more comical is that they were willing to pay Miller upwards of 2 million to do nothing.