Speculation: 2019 Trade Deadline

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Jul 30, 2005
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I mean, what is location, really
Sweet win for you bro! Our GM trying to get the team competitive when you clearly dont want that but said Holland would!
Right is right, Mr. Patton.

And competitive at the wrong point in your team's development curve is a disaster, believe it or not. The goal isn't to "kinda" win. The goal is to win it all. There are no partial Stanley Cups. There's no consolation prize for squeaking in as the 8th seed.
 
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jkutswings

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Right is right, Mr Patton.

And competitive at the wrong point in your team's development curve is a disaster, believe it or not. The goal isn't to "kinda" win. The goal is to win it all. There are no partial Stanley Cups. There's no consolation prize for squeaking in as the 8th seed.
And conversely, working hard and not getting blown out 50 times a year isn't some badge of honor to put in a trophy case. It's the absolute bare minimum for a professional franchise, narrowly avoiding getting one or more people fired.

Keep drafting well. Continue to look for flippable vets for short deals, younger players that might need a change of scenery, and opportunities to take a leap forward with a great player if a truly unique situation presents itself. But stop the notion of caring as much or more about attendance in November than the best shot at a parade in June.
 
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Red Stanley

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I feel like someone on here argued with me, saying that Holland isn't really trying to make the playoffs next year. Ahem.
Of course he's trying to make the playoffs next year. He's trying to make the playoffs right now, because we're not mathematically eliminated yet. That doesn't mean we'll be buyers this year and it doesn't mean we'll be buyers next year, if we're in the same situation. It's simple common sense and, yet, it's become such a tired and meaningless gripe about semantics.
 
Jul 30, 2005
17,696
4,647
I mean, what is location, really
Of course he's trying to make the playoffs next year. He's trying to make the playoffs right now, because we're not mathematically eliminated yet. That doesn't mean we'll be buyers this year and it doesn't mean we'll be buyers next year, if we're in the same situation. It's simple common sense and, yet, it's become such a tired and meaningless gripe about semantics.
There's this new thing teams do now called "rebuilding", but apparently Holland never got that memo.

Oh wait, he did! In fact, he himself was talking about how they're rebuilding. How did they get rebuilt so quickly?
 
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Red Stanley

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There's this new thing teams do now called "rebuilding", but apparently Holland never got that memo.

Oh wait, he did! In fact, he himself was talking about how they're rebuilding. How did they get rebuilt so quickly?
Do you go on the Islanders message board and yell at them about doing it all wrong? Btw, Holland has not said we're done rebuilding. I dare you to find me the direct quote of that. Operative word is "direct", not your projected bias of generalized statements.
 
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Jul 30, 2005
17,696
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I mean, what is location, really
Do you go on the Islanders message board and yell at them about doing it all wrong? Btw, Holland has not said we're done rebuilding. I dare you to find me the direct quote of that. Operative word is "direct", not your projected bias of generalized statements.
Are they going to be rebuilding while they make the playoffs? Are we back to this old debate? Rebuilding on the fly is total nonsense.
 
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Red Stanley

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Are they going to be rebuilding while they make the playoffs? Are we back to this old debate? Rebuilding on the fly is total nonsense.
We're not rebuilding on the fly from the bottom of the standings and the Islanders are first in their division after being projected to do badly without JT. The point is projections are glorified guesstimates and wishful thinking. I wish it would rain meatballs tomorrow. It doesn't mean I don't plan on cooking dinner. Holland talked about "meaningful games" in March and April last year, too, and then collected his two 1st round picks.
 
Jul 30, 2005
17,696
4,647
I mean, what is location, really
We're not rebuilding on the fly from the bottom of the standings and the Islanders are first in their division after being projected to do badly without JT. The point is projections are glorified guesstimates and wishful thinking. I wish it would rain meatballs tomorrow. It doesn't mean I don't plan on cooking dinner. Holland talked about "meaningful games" in March and April last year, too, and then collected his two 1st round picks.
So, what? Is this some kind of Trump-style 5d chess where he's saying and doing one thing, but actually secretly enacting a brilliant plan that will only come to fruition when we expect it the least?

That's not an argument, that's your special brand of Detroit Red Wings-oriented spirituality. You don't believe it because you see how the pieces in front of you fit, you believe it because you have faith that the pieces you can't see will come together just perfectly, just in the nick of time. You're never talked out of it by rational discourse because you're not arguing with rational discourse.
 

SimonEdvinssonAtSix

It's possible to commit no mistakes and still lose
Nov 2, 2018
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Right is right, Mr. Patton.

And competitive at the wrong point in your team's development curve is a disaster, believe it or not. The goal isn't to "kinda" win. The goal is to win it all. There are no partial Stanley Cups. There's no consolation prize for squeaking in as the 8th seed.

Then by this logic every team not named the Washington Capitals is a failure and should be rebuilding. Rebuilding by missing the playoffs because there is no consolation prize if you do not win the cup.
 

ricky0034

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Jun 8, 2010
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There's this new thing teams do now called "rebuilding", but apparently Holland never got that memo.

Oh wait, he did! In fact, he himself was talking about how they're rebuilding. How did they get rebuilt so quickly?

probably all those draft picks from 2 years ago

I know they don't seem ready to come in and make an impact but with so much character you can't hold them back for long
 

jkutswings

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Jul 10, 2014
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Then by this logic every team not named the Washington Capitals is a failure and should be rebuilding. Rebuilding by missing the playoffs because there is no consolation prize if you do not win the cup.
Retooling <> rebuilding.

Those who contend but fall short either try again with the same roster or trade/add to improve.

Those who don't contend at all focus on long term goals moreso than the present, and use primarily the draft.
 

Red Stanley

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Apr 25, 2015
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So, what? Is this some kind of Trump-style 5d chess where he's saying and doing one thing, but actually secretly enacting a brilliant plan that will only come to fruition when we expect it the least?

That's not an argument, that's your special brand of Detroit Red Wings-oriented spirituality. You don't believe it because you see how the pieces in front of you fit, you believe it because you have faith that the pieces you can't see will come together just perfectly, just in the nick of time. You're never talked out of it by rational discourse because you're not arguing with rational discourse.

1. Yes, he's saying we're rebuilding and is doing things that rebuilding teams do. What brilliant plan are you expecting to see and hear about? Are you annoyed by him sharing his hopes for the future when he's asked what his hopes for the future are? Is that it?

2. The second bold is quite ironic, since you've never backed anything you claim with an actual quote. This is why this discussion is old, tired and dishonest.
 

Red Stanley

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I hate the word competitive.

Really, hate isn't strong enough of a word. If "competitive" was a physical entity, I would crumple it up, set it on fire, drop a piano on it from 100 feet up, and then nuke it from orbit.

This franchise has ZERO business prioritizing a 2020 playoff appearance. The team simply won't be ready for anything meaningful by then, even if they did shortcut the process by bringing back their UFAs and adding another guy in July.

Do this right, or get outta town and let somebody else do it.
And I hate the word contend, because it's just as arbitrary. By the looks of it, the franchise is more concerned with the upcoming draft than anything else. 2020 will not be the year when we know what we have. It'll take longer than that.
 

Red Stanley

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Contend: being among the handful of teams to conceivably win a championship.

How exactly is that an arbitrary term?
2018 Vegas Golden Knights is the latest of a long list of underdogs that actually contended. The list of contenders who fell flat is much much longer. I don't care about labels. I want a cohesive team that's enjoyable to watch.
 
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jkutswings

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If the regular season ended today, Buffalo would (pre-lottery) have the 15th, 16th, and 26th picks in the first round. (16 via O'Reilly to the Blues, and 26 via Kane to the Sharks.)

That's the type of team I would have on speed dial.

If Detroit can deal a few vets at the deadline for some combination of late first and second round picks, I would be having all sorts of conversations with Buffalo about what it would take to deal for #16. Because with a likely top 5, and another pick somewhere near the middle of the first round, you stand a good chance of grabbing both a very good center and a good defenseman. And now the cupboard starts to look pretty darn good, to then supplement with 1-2 trades and/or free agents.

Now for all I know, Buffalo hangs up the phone and tries to package 15+16 to move into the top 5-7 picks, but it's a path I would seriously explore, because finding a trade partner with 3 first rounders is rare.
 

TCNorthstars

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Jan 5, 2009
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If the regular season ended today, Buffalo would (pre-lottery) have the 15th, 16th, and 26th picks in the first round. (16 via O'Reilly to the Blues, and 26 via Kane to the Sharks.)

That's the type of team I would have on speed dial.

If Detroit can deal a few vets at the deadline for some combination of late first and second round picks, I would be having all sorts of conversations with Buffalo about what it would take to deal for #16. Because with a likely top 5, and another pick somewhere near the middle of the first round, you stand a good chance of grabbing both a very good center and a good defenseman. And now the cupboard starts to look pretty darn good, to then supplement with 1-2 trades and/or free agents.

Now for all I know, Buffalo hangs up the phone and tries to package 15+16 to move into the top 5-7 picks, but it's a path I would seriously explore, because finding a trade partner with 3 first rounders is rare.

Good thoughts. What might you see as a package to get that pick? Kinda risky for them to trade away thier's or STL first round at this point.
 

ricky0034

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Jun 8, 2010
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If the regular season ended today, Buffalo would (pre-lottery) have the 15th, 16th, and 26th picks in the first round. (16 via O'Reilly to the Blues, and 26 via Kane to the Sharks.)

That's the type of team I would have on speed dial.

If Detroit can deal a few vets at the deadline for some combination of late first and second round picks, I would be having all sorts of conversations with Buffalo about what it would take to deal for #16. Because with a likely top 5, and another pick somewhere near the middle of the first round, you stand a good chance of grabbing both a very good center and a good defenseman. And now the cupboard starts to look pretty darn good, to then supplement with 1-2 trades and/or free agents.

Now for all I know, Buffalo hangs up the phone and tries to package 15+16 to move into the top 5-7 picks, but it's a path I would seriously explore, because finding a trade partner with 3 first rounders is rare.

i'll be pretty surprised if the Blues don't make the Playoffs at this point

they're a good team on paper,have been much better after a bad start,and are currently 3 points out with 3 games in hand
 

jkutswings

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Good thoughts. What might you see as a package to get that pick? Kinda risky for them to trade away thier's or STL first round at this point.
I don't see anybody moving picks now. I'd just keep the notion out there, let the season finish to see exactly where the picks end up, and then have more concrete discussions after the playoffs, to try and strike a deal either going into the draft, or as the first round took place, depending on your draft board and who was still there at 16 (or wherever the available pick ends up).

But if there's anybody who would allow for first round rearranging, I would think Buffalo has the most flexibility.
 

TCNorthstars

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I don't see anybody moving picks now. I'd just keep the notion out there, let the season finish to see exactly where the picks end up, and then have more concrete discussions after the playoffs, to try and strike a deal either going into the draft, or as the first round took place, depending on your draft board and who was still there at 16 (or wherever the available pick ends up).

But if there's anybody who would allow for first round rearranging, I would think Buffalo has the most flexibility.

Gotcha. Didn't realize you were talking post season. Thought we were talking by deadline day.
 

jkutswings

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Jul 10, 2014
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Gotcha. Didn't realize you were talking post season. Thought we were talking by deadline day.
I mean, if Kenny can get Buffalo to cough up a 1st rounder for a reasonable deal right now - say, two seconds and a third - then more power to him. But I don't think Detroit has enough ammo before selling another player or two, and I'd be very surprised if Buffalo was willing to make any moves this early. Just brainstorming to be prepared more than anything.
 

WingNut

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Jun 21, 2016
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I mean, if Kenny can get Buffalo to cough up a 1st rounder for a reasonable deal right now - say, two seconds and a third - then more power to him. But I don't think Detroit has enough ammo before selling another player or two, and I'd be very surprised if Buffalo was willing to make any moves this early. Just brainstorming to be prepared more than anything.
 

SimonEdvinssonAtSix

It's possible to commit no mistakes and still lose
Nov 2, 2018
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Retooling <> rebuilding.

Those who contend but fall short either try again with the same roster or trade/add to improve.

Those who don't contend at all focus on long term goals moreso than the present, and use primarily the draft.

Well that's exactly what Holland is doing. Look at out recent drafts then take a look at our roster. We also have talented prospects looking to make the jump within 2 years, this is not even taking into account this years draft.
We will draft high this year (Top 10 pick) and if we NAIL it like we did last year we are contending sooner.
UFAs like EK could be a huge boon to this team but they will not come here if our GM (Holland OR Yzerman) comes out to the media and says "We dont think this team can make the playoffs next year".
At some point the "consolation prize" for squeaking into the 8th seed spot is playoff experience for our young guys, Larkin, AA, Mantha, Bert, Cholo, Hronek. We have sold vets, UFAs AND roster players in recent years at the deadline which has helped to restock our talent pool. We have not bought at the deadline in recent years in turn saving those assets.

If we make the playoffs next year, I, as a fan of The Detroit Red Wings will be proud of those guys and stoked to watch them play. How this can be used against a GM as a sign of being bad is beyond me.
 

Christien

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I think this is shaping up to be a disappointing trade deadline. Not really surprising though with Kenny still in charge. Hope I'm wrong
 

Christien

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31 Thoughts: Auston Matthews extension a game changer for NHL - Sportsnet.ca
17. Detroit’s got a few interesting choices. They already have 10 picks in June’s draft and a group of talented youngsters pushing for NHL jobs. They want a few veterans around. They are trying to extend Nick Jensen, who quietly has had a strong season. The trade-a-guy-and-re-sign-him plan rarely works, but I can see the possibility with Jimmy Howard — although they could just as easily keep him. There’s a path to a new contract there.

18. Red Wings head coach Jeff Blashill could get an extension, too. They believe he’s pushed the right buttons with that group.
 
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