2019 Roster and Fantasy GM Thread VI

[BWJM]

No, I don't see any reason to acquire Barrie other than him being a BC kid. They've got Quinn Hughes to play the exact role that Barrie would need to be successful. Especially considering Barrie will require a long term deal with a massive caphit.

Not a Barrie fan, and I think the team needs a different type of defensman.

If the Canucks want to make a Free Agency splash, the guy to grab just captained the Stanley Cup Champions. Not saying he'd come here, but that's the type of player the Canucks need and he'd basically take over Edler's minutes.

I spent an hour last night trying to come up with good RH defensman trade targets and it's a really shallow list. At this point, I might just try to skate by with what they have and make a concerted effort to have as much cap space as possible for the summer of 2022. My dream is being able to afford Seth Jones (if he even makes it to UFA, which he might since Werenski is RFA the same summer and they're going to eat up a ton of cash).

I agree with your points. I just think with the Canucks new core the team needs to be built fast and skilled. Overloading on puck moving dman to compliment a fast game is how I'd build this team to be the most effective. Probably how I'd build any team. (Armchair GM of course).

 

[4Twenty]

I agree with your points. I just think with the Canucks new core the team needs to be built fast and skilled. Overloading on puck moving dman to compliment a fast game is how I'd build this team to be the most effective. Probably how I'd build any team. (Armchair GM of course).

I'd argue the two guys I mentioned are skilled and can move the puck as quick as Barrie, but are just all around better hockey players.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

WHY ISNT TRAVIS GREEN STACKING HIS 1ST LINE? We should look at what good teams like Colorado, Boston have done.

I’d like to see Petey with Horvat and Miller as the super line with Hughes stapled to them.

then we could roll 3 solid lines that could produce like 2nd-3rd lines.

Call up Sven or Goldy, put them beside Boeser and let Gaudette center them.

Take Pearson and put him with Jake and Sutter.

Then roll with Motte-Beagle-Schaller with Motte and Schiller replaced by Roussell when he comes back and maybe Leivo or Ferland whoevers playing better.


Miller- Pettersson - Horvat
Goldobin/Baertschi- Gaudette - Boeser
Pearson- Sutter- Virtanen
Roussell- Beagle- Ferland
Leivo/Motte

That would be a SICK forward group with a good balance in the bottom 9 but also a loaded up top line

 

[Horvat1C]

WHY ISNT TRAVIS GREEN STACKING HIS 1ST LINE? We should look at what good teams like Colorado, Boston have done.

I’d like to see Petey with Horvat and Miller as the super line with Hughes stapled to them.

then we could roll 3 solid lines that could produce like 2nd-3rd lines.

Call up Sven or Goldy, put them beside Boeser and let Gaudette center them.

Take Pearson and put him with Jake and Sutter.

Then roll with Motte-Beagle-Schaller with Motte and Schiller replaced by Roussell when he comes back and maybe Leivo or Ferland whoevers playing better.


Miller- Pettersson - Horvat
Goldobin/Baertschi- Gaudette - Boeser
Pearson- Sutter- Virtanen
Roussell- Beagle- Ferland
Leivo/Motte

That would be a SICK forward group with a good balance in the bottom 9 but also a loaded up top line

Gaudette hasn't looked great in the games he's played this year and hasn't earned that kind of opportunity. He's in a tough spot right now where he needs to be playing but honestly isn't the best option right now given his most recent games played. I don't understand why he hasn't been sent to Utica already; they've been tearing it up and it would be the perfect place to regain some confidence.

Also no chance Pettersson plays center over Horvat, that's laughable.

 

[Horvat1C]

Yes, but there are incredibly diminishing returns on each additional one you add to your roster.

Which is why I'd be trading Juolevi if he puts himself in a position where he gives himself any sort of value. The only thing Juolevi does really well is something that Hughes does better.

Edler isn't going to be here forever and will need to be replaced as his play declines. Juolevi is the best candidate we have to do that right now. If he proves he has value, he'll be exactly what we need.

 

[Hoghandler]

Edler isn't going to be here forever and will need to be replaced as his play declines. Juolevi is the best candidate we have to do that right now. If he proves he has value, he'll be exactly what we need.

Agreed. Trading Juolevi would be a short sighted move. The correct play with Olli is to handle him exactly as the Canucks have. That means big minutes in Utica, 1st unit PK time, PP opportunities and just be patient as he slowly builds the strength and skating back to where it needs to be.

As you said, there will be a need for this skillset going forward. Thankfully, the Edler extension buys the perfect amount of time needed to develop Olli into that player. Just have to hope his body holds up going forward, as this is a huge year in his development.

 

[MS]

Edler isn't going to be here forever and will need to be replaced as his play declines. Juolevi is the best candidate we have to do that right now. If he proves he has value, he'll be exactly what we need.

Edler is a #1 defender. Juolevi, if he makes it, projects as a #4-5 PP specialist. He isn't going to replace anything that Edler brings aside from PP utility ... which Hughes already has handled.

 

[bandwagonesque]

Edler is a #1 defender. Juolevi, if he makes it, projects as a #4-5 PP specialist. He isn't going to replace anything that Edler brings aside from PP utility ... which Hughes already has handled.

You also projected Hughes to be a 2nd pairing PP specialist who would need to be sheltered, and he's currently one of the best defensemen in the league so far this season according to advanced statistics and most would agree he appears certain to exceed that projection 15 games into his career. I don't think Juolevi will be a #1 defender, but I don't think he's necessarily a PP specialist.

 

[Hoghandler]

Edler is a #1 defender. Juolevi, if he makes it, projects as a #4-5 PP specialist. He isn't going to replace anything that Edler brings aside from PP utility ... which Hughes already has handled.

Don't agree with your take on Juolevi at all. If he makes it, he projects as an all situation, big minute player that can take on relatively tough minutes at even strength, while providing tremendous transition passing from the back end. A player that will look as comfortable killing penalties as he does with the mam advantage.

The key will be does his body hold up to reach that level. If he puts the injuries behind him, we're looking at a top 4 defenseman for the next decade.

 

[Horvat1C]

Edler is a #1 defender. Juolevi, if he makes it, projects as a #4-5 PP specialist. He isn't going to replace anything that Edler brings aside from PP utility ... which Hughes already has handled.

Juolevi is used in all situations in Utica, including the penalty kill. If he plays well in those circumstances (ie. giving himself some value) then he would be more of an all round guy like Edler as opposed to an offensive guy like Hughes. Reports in this early season have been good regarding Juolevi on the PK.

 

[Hoghandler]

Barrie looks like a bad target but they did a great job building their bottom-6 around cheap guys like Mikheyev and Moore and Ceci has been a lot better than I expected.

I don't think he's in even a little bit of danger after only 2 years on the job. Babcock might be, but GMs don't get fired after two playoff seasons with the same coach.

In any case, they've received crap goaltending so far this year and that will correct as we go along. That's a very good team, much as I hate them.

Yet since the start of 2019, spanning 54 games, they are a few games over .500 and the 19th best team based on win percentage. That was after Nylander returned and a pretty healthy season for the group. What does that record look like if they're top 5 in man games missed?

I just don't like the makeup of that team at all in terms of competing for a cup. Terrific top end talent, surrounded by a soft group that can't grind out wins, with a defense that just doesn't look capable of carrying them to where they want to go.

Will be a very interesting team to watch over the next few months.

 

[Horvat1C]

Would anybody drop a 2nd rounder for Puljujarvi?

For comparison, Baertschi was traded by another divisional rival in his draft +4 year after scoring at a 0.69 (nice) PPG pace in the AHL. His return was a 2nd rounder.

Puljujarvi is currently in his draft +4 year, is owned by a divisional rival and is scoring at a 1PPG pace in Liiga. However, he also had a public trade request.

Both are wingers. The main sticking point could be that Puljujarvi was drafted 4th OA vs. Baertschi being drafted at 13th OA, but again Puljujarvi made it clear he doesn't want to be in Edmonton.

 

[Bleach Clean]

You also projected Hughes to be a 2nd pairing PP specialist who would need to be sheltered, and he's currently one of the best defensemen in the league so far this season according to advanced statistics and most would agree he appears certain to exceed that projection 15 games into his career. I don't think Juolevi will be a #1 defender, but I don't think he's necessarily a PP specialist.

I count at least 3 errors in player evaluation with your post. Were they intentional?

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Edler is a #1 defender. Juolevi, if he makes it, projects as a #4-5 PP specialist. He isn't going to replace anything that Edler brings aside from PP utility ... which Hughes already has handled.

Disagree completely. Juolevi has top 3 potential. He projects to be an Edler at best, just not as physical

 

[bandwagonesque]

I count at least 3 errors in player evaluation with your post. Were they intentional?

I've seen you make several posts which in themselves do a great job of illustrating why it's impossible to take you seriously. This might be the shortest, which is an accomplishment.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Don't agree with your take on Juolevi at all. If he makes it, he projects as an all situation, big minute player that can take on relatively tough minutes at even strength, while providing tremendous transition passing from the back end. A player that will look as comfortable killing penalties as he does with the mam advantage.

The key will be does his body hold up to reach that level. If he puts the injuries behind him, we're looking at a top 4 defenseman for the next decade.

What in Juolevi’s pro career thus far has encouraged you to project him this way? What does he do well at ES defensively?

I think if he was as good as you say he is defensively, he would have been in the line-up a year ago. Whenever they tried to see if he was ready, he failed. He didn’t engage. He got beaten wide repeatedly. Lost focus etc...

So I’m curious, what are you seeing?

 

[Bleach Clean]

I've seen you make several posts which in themselves do a great job of illustrating why it's impossible to take you seriously. This might be the shortest, which is an accomplishment.

That doesn’t answer why people should take your criticism of MS’s projection seriously here, does it?

So again, were the errors in your post intentional? I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt by thinking so. Maybe I was wrong?

 

[4Twenty]

That doesn’t answer why people should take your criticism of MS’s projection seriously here, does it?

So again, were the errors in your post intentional? I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt by thinking so. Maybe I was wrong?

Ironic that poster says it's impossible to have a conversation with you, he/she's the epitome of a bad faith arguer.

Isn't Quinn Hughes currently on the 2nd pair?

Are two-thirds of his 6 points on the PP?

Does Quinn have good advanced metrics? Sure. He does, but I know why bandwagon didn't speak to a specific, but lets just looks at CF%, because I'm imagining that's the metric he wants to use. Quinn has the 26th best CF% for D in the league this year (55.92%). Pretty damn solid right. He's also starting in his offensive zone 72% of the time (maybe not sheltering, but certainly giving him the best chance for success).

But where the 26th rank should fall on it's face for this board, is that the guy who is 23rd, was ran out of town and not qualified last year. You wouldn't use that metric to call Ben Hutton one of the best defensman in the league.

(all stats are 5 on 5)

 

[bandwagonesque]

Ironic that poster says it's impossible to have a conversation with you, he/she's the epitome of a bad faith arguer.

Isn't Quinn Hughes currently on the 2nd pair?

Are two-thirds of his 6 points on the PP?

Does Quinn have good advanced metrics? Sure. He does, but I know why bandwagon didn't speak to a specific, but lets just looks at CF%, because I'm imagining that's the metric he wants to use. Quinn has the 26th best CF% for D in the league this year (55.92%). Pretty damn solid right. He's also starting in his offensive zone 72% of the time (maybe not sheltering, but certainly giving him the best chance for success).

But where the 26th rank should fall on it's face for this board, is that the guy who is 23rd, was ran out of town and not qualified last year. You wouldn't use that metric to call Ben Hutton one of the best defensman in the league.

(all stats are 5 on 5)

I didn't say he was currently not a 2nd pairing PP specialist, I said that, based on his performance so far, that projection for his career in general doesn't seem accurate. Pretty much everyone would agree he seems to project as a 1st pairing D capable of using all 200 feet of ice. I thought it was relevant since MS just got done saying he's almost never wrong about player projections. He's clearly wrong about one of his most recent ones and it took all of 14 games for this to be clear. You can pretend not to believe this for the sake of appearing to be right if you like.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

He's also starting in his offensive zone 72% of the time (maybe not sheltering, but certainly giving him the best chance for success).

where are you getting these stats. Hockey-reference says Hughes is getting a 50/50 split in offensive zone starts vs defensive zone starts.

 

[4Twenty]

I only use naturalstattrick.com

I can't say which one is wrong or right, but I only use that one. I don't like hockeyreference, it's hard to use.

 

[sting101]

Would anybody drop a 2nd rounder for Puljujarvi?

For comparison, Baertschi was traded by another divisional rival in his draft +4 year after scoring at a 0.69 (nice) PPG pace in the AHL. His return was a 2nd rounder.

Puljujarvi is currently in his draft +4 year, is owned by a divisional rival and is scoring at a 1PPG pace in Liiga. However, he also had a public trade request.

Both are wingers. The main sticking point could be that Puljujarvi was drafted 4th OA vs. Baertschi being drafted at 13th OA, but again Puljujarvi made it clear he doesn't want to be in Edmonton.

Never get drawn in by draft position. JP is not a guy that is gonna be a pert of a leadership group on a team and yet he will always want to be a focal point offensively. He's the kind of player that can kill a room. You would have to pay me to take this fool that couldn't even do the minimal requirements to getting to play with the MVP and Leon Draisaitl.

Absolutely not interested

 

[bandwagonesque]

Ironic that poster says it's impossible to have a conversation with you, he/she's the epitome of a bad faith arguer.

Isn't Quinn Hughes currently on the 2nd pair?

Are two-thirds of his 6 points on the PP?

Does Quinn have good advanced metrics? Sure. He does, but I know why bandwagon didn't speak to a specific, but lets just looks at CF%, because I'm imagining that's the metric he wants to use. Quinn has the 26th best CF% for D in the league this year (55.92%). Pretty damn solid right. He's also starting in his offensive zone 72% of the time (maybe not sheltering, but certainly giving him the best chance for success).

But where the 26th rank should fall on it's face for this board, is that the guy who is 23rd, was ran out of town and not qualified last year. You wouldn't use that metric to call Ben Hutton one of the best defensman in the league.

(all stats are 5 on 5)

Also, you're cherry-picking the one stat where you're aware of outliers that can appear to undermine my argument. Hughes is up there with the league leaders on defence is most advanced statistical categories. I hate to keep having to add the following qualification, but I'm often left with no choice, so: I know you know this. I know Ronning on Empty knows this. I know you've both seen the statistics and the remarks various hockey journalists have made about them. For example, you've both seen this tweet:



You know the premise of my comment was correct, and anyone observing this interaction who has enough familiarity with the boards to know both you and and Ronning on Empty are well-versed in statistics knows you know this. There's no point in pretending otherwise.

 

[4Twenty]

Would anybody drop a 2nd rounder for Puljujarvi?

For comparison, Baertschi was traded by another divisional rival in his draft +4 year after scoring at a 0.69 (nice) PPG pace in the AHL. His return was a 2nd rounder.

Puljujarvi is currently in his draft +4 year, is owned by a divisional rival and is scoring at a 1PPG pace in Liiga. However, he also had a public trade request.

Both are wingers. The main sticking point could be that Puljujarvi was drafted 4th OA vs. Baertschi being drafted at 13th OA, but again Puljujarvi made it clear he doesn't want to be in Edmonton.

Not interested in moving picks, I'd move Jake for him in a heartbeat.

 

[MS]

You also projected Hughes to be a 2nd pairing PP specialist who would need to be sheltered, and he's currently one of the best defensemen in the league so far this season according to advanced statistics and most would agree he appears certain to exceed that projection 15 games into his career. I don't think Juolevi will be a #1 defender, but I don't think he's necessarily a PP specialist.

Hughes has been better defensively than I've expected, from sheltered minutes with an elite defensive babysitter. I still see him as a 2nd pairing guy going forward but yes, I will grant that some more upside would have opened up there.

Conversely, perhaps we should learn from Pettersson and Boeser that projecting astronomical improvement after a great first 15 games might be a bit of a dangerous game.

Don't agree with your take on Juolevi at all. If he makes it, he projects as an all situation, big minute player that can take on relatively tough minutes at even strength, while providing tremendous transition passing from the back end. A player that will look as comfortable killing penalties as he does with the mam advantage.

The key will be does his body hold up to reach that level. If he puts the injuries behind him, we're looking at a top 4 defenseman for the next decade.

Juolevi is used in all situations in Utica, including the penalty kill. If he plays well in those circumstances (ie. giving himself some value) then he would be more of an all round guy like Edler as opposed to an offensive guy like Hughes. Reports in this early season have been good regarding Juolevi on the PK.

Juolevi is a hot mess defensively who can't skate.

If he got to the point where he could skate and compete well enough to play semi-sheltered #4-5 minutes and help the team with his transition game, that would be an absolutely huge win for the team at this point. Projecting him as an all-situations beast is just ... absurdly hopeful pie in the sky.

In his draft+4 season, he's been the worst defender in Utica so far at ES and his skating is still getting constantly exposed. But yes, unlike last year he is actually taking some defensive zone faceoffs and playing on the PK, which is good. But literally *every* NHL defender played on the PK when they were in the AHL. Same as guys like Tim Schaller and Brendan Gaunce were PP guys at this level. This is not some sort of great feat.