2019 Roster and Fantasy GM Thread VI

[bandwagonesque]

I still see him as a 2nd pairing guy going forward

I don't think you really believe this, and I'd be surprised if many other people think you do. You're too deeply invested in what you believe to be your identity here to admit it, so you're pushing it further down the road to a time when people will have forgotten about the projection entirely. Also, if I remember correctly, you said that was his ceiling, not a mean projection.

 

[MS]

I don't think you really believe this, and I'd be surprised if many other people think you do. You're too deeply invested in what you believe to be your identity here to admit it, so you're pushing it further down the road to a time when people will have forgotten about the projection entirely. Also, if I remember correctly, you said that was his ceiling, not a mean projection.

I said it was a realistic projection. I'm very conservative in projecting players and in a league where 5'9 165 lb #1 all-situation defenders basically don't exist, I'm not going to be drinking the Kool-Aid and projecting that he's going to re-invent the wheel until I actually see evidence that this guy can be a matchup defender or a PK guy. And right now he's doing none of that - he's doing a nice job soaking up soft minutes next to an elite defensive defender. He is what I thought he would be earlier than I expected ... but again, as we've seen with Boeser and Pettersson having a quick NHL start doesn't necessarily mean there will be massive improvements from there.

 

[Bankerguy]

Canucks need to get Ferland going.

We just signed him, he's under-preforming and has 4 more years with the Canucks after this one....

I hope management sit down and work out a plan here. What exactly is the issue? chemistry? is he out of shape? confidence? is it something technical about his game he needs to change?
He's throwing a lot of hits but he hasnt really brought that "agitating" factor that he's known for nor has he produced any offence. Skating was never an issue for him but he looks visibly slower out there.

 

[4Twenty]

@bandwagonesque

Where did Darryl get his numbers, I can post the link for where I got mine. I'm not cherry picking any stats. Looks like Darryl did, that's why his numbers are off, he must be using all situations instead of 5 on 5. I don't use anything but 5 on 5. Looks to me like you're the one cherry picking, and it if those are all situations numbers like I think they are then it doesn't support your argument.

It's ludicrous to use all situations stats to pump a guy up when he doesn't PK. It's basically even-strength plus PP and of course he'll look better in those, because other top 4 dmen actually play defensive roles and PK. The numbers you're posting hurt your arguement more than they help it. Anytime you're using PP influence to make a guy look better, you're the one cherry picking.

5 on 5 is where I make analysis, anything else is just noise. And I can't help but reiterate again the PP being the biggest driver of Darryl Keeping's ranks in his tweet is cherry picking and actually confirms the 2nd pair, PP specialist comments you were fighting against.

The premise you made was incorrect, backed up by the stats you posted (heavily influence by PP) and anyone observing this knows you regularly argue from a bad faith position.

 

[4Twenty]

a 2nd pair guy at 5 on 5 can still be your PP QB and an extremely valuable player for your organization. I don't really see the problem.

Everyone laments the loss of Ehrhoff being the start of the fall, well he often played on the 3rd pair at 5 on 5.

Mitchell-Bieksa
Edler-Salo
Ehrhoff-O'Brien

People wouldn't even be arguing if MS wasn't the one who said it, but a group of posters is always trying to "gotcha" on him. It's pretty sad.

 

[Lupuls Grit]

Someone (a Leafs fan apparently) posted this proposal on the Leafs board. Unsurprisingly, most Leaf fans didn't like it but perhaps it indicates that Stecher is worth more than some give him credit for. What do you all think of this proposal? Kapanen would be an excellent fit on the third line but not entirely sure of the cap ramifications going forward. He is on a good contract for what he can provide. If we are reasonably confident that Tryamkin can be added at a decent cap hit for next season, I make this trade easily.


RD Troy Stecher (1.15 mill retention, which is almost 50%)
LW Tim Schaller

1.175 + 1.9 mill = 3.075 mill in.


RW Kasperi Kapanen
RD Justin Holl

3.2 + .675 = 3.875 mill out.

 

[krutovsdonut]

i think the leafs do need to turn one of their $3m+ nhl contracts into two nhl guys and we could offer them some guys for that. i expect every team at the league would make them offers on that though. the winner might just be the team with the best math proposition not the best players.

 

[MS]

Someone (a Leafs fan apparently) posted this proposal on the Leafs board. Unsurprisingly, most Leaf fans didn't like it but perhaps it indicates that Stecher is worth more than some give him credit for. What do you all think of this proposal? Kapanen would be an excellent fit on the third line but not entirely sure of the cap ramifications going forward. He is on a good contract for what he can provide. If we are reasonably confident that Tryamkin can be added at a decent cap hit for next season, I make this trade easily.


RD Troy Stecher (1.15 mill retention, which is almost 50%)
LW Tim Schaller

1.175 + 1.9 mill = 3.075 mill in.


RW Kasperi Kapanen
RD Justin Holl

3.2 + .675 = 3.875 mill out.

Uh, yeah, in a heartbeat. Would probably even sub Virtanen in for Schaller. Kapanen is a good young player who would be a big addition here.

 

[VanillaCoke]

That would be an easy win

 

[4Twenty]

Someone (a Leafs fan apparently) posted this proposal on the Leafs board. Unsurprisingly, most Leaf fans didn't like it but perhaps it indicates that Stecher is worth more than some give him credit for. What do you all think of this proposal? Kapanen would be an excellent fit on the third line but not entirely sure of the cap ramifications going forward. He is on a good contract for what he can provide. If we are reasonably confident that Tryamkin can be added at a decent cap hit for next season, I make this trade easily.


RD Troy Stecher (1.15 mill retention, which is almost 50%)
LW Tim Schaller

1.175 + 1.9 mill = 3.075 mill in.


RW Kasperi Kapanen
RD Justin Holl

3.2 + .675 = 3.875 mill out.

I don't believe the Canucks can fit even this move under the KAP (see what I did there *winky face). But I've been looking at a Virtanen + Stecher trade combo for awhile. I think they're both expendable and I imagine Toronto would want a player with team control or a better player than Schaller.

I think these two teams for once actually make good trade partners.

 

[Horvat1C]

Juolevi is a hot mess defensively who can't skate.

If he got to the point where he could skate and compete well enough to play semi-sheltered #4-5 minutes and help the team with his transition game, that would be an absolutely huge win for the team at this point. Projecting him as an all-situations beast is just ... absurdly hopeful pie in the sky.

In his draft+4 season, he's been the worst defender in Utica so far at ES and his skating is still getting constantly exposed. But yes, unlike last year he is actually taking some defensive zone faceoffs and playing on the PK, which is good. But literally *every* NHL defender played on the PK when they were in the AHL. Same as guys like Tim Schaller and Brendan Gaunce were PP guys at this level. This is not some sort of great feat.

That's a fine assessment, but that's not what you said. You said that if Juolevi does turn into something of value, you would move him. If Juolevi turns into something of value, he'll be what we need on our blue line and we shouldn't move him.

 

[MS]

That's a fine assessment, but that's not what you said. You said that if Juolevi does turn into something of value, you would move him. If Juolevi turns into something of value, he'll be what we need on our blue line and we shouldn't move him.

If Juolevi scores 45 points in the AHL this year to re-establish himself himself as a bit of a viable prospect, we should be selling on him.

Obviously if he has a massive turnaround and starts tracking as an all-situations beast you don't move him ... but I'm really not expecting that to happen.

 

[Hoghandler]

If Juolevi scores 45 points in the AHL this year to re-establish himself himself as a bit of a viable prospect, we should be selling on him.

Why would a team thin on the back end in terms of youth go out of their way to shop a dman? The Canucks have better depth at every other position...

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Why would a team thin on the back end in terms of youth go out of their way to shop a dman? The Canucks have better depth at every other position...

plus he's only on his 2nd year of his ELC.

 

[Horvat1C]

If Juolevi scores 45 points in the AHL this year to re-establish himself himself as a bit of a viable prospect, we should be selling on him.

Obviously if he has a massive turnaround and starts tracking as an all-situations beast you don't move him ... but I'm really not expecting that to happen.

Even if Juolevi turns out to be an offensive specialist it would probably be worth keeping him (unless some team offers something of value + positional need). If you only need one young offensive defenseman to succeed then somebody better tell Colorado to move two of Makar, Byram and Girard.

Generating offense from more than one source on the back end should be an expectation moving forward.

 

[MS]

Why would a team thin on the back end in terms of youth go out of their way to shop a dman? The Canucks have better depth at every other position...

Because he'd be a PP specialist who wouldn't be needed on the PP - Hughes will be manning that role for years to come and Myers is signed for 5 years. What's the point?

I don't think this will ever be a player of significant value or utility for this team so if we can capitalize on his value and get something that actually can provide utility, that's what I'd be doing.

 

[MS]

Even if Juolevi turns out to be an offensive specialist it would probably be worth keeping him (unless some team offers something of value + positional need). If you only need one young offensive defenseman to succeed then somebody better tell Colorado to move two of Makar, Byram and Girard.

Generating offense from more than one source on the back end should be an expectation moving forward.

Girard and Makar play opposite sides (which is a big deal) and Byram projects as an all-situations stud.

On a team that already has a pure offensive LS defender in Hughes, another pure offensive LS defender in Juolevi is redundant.

 

[Horvat1C]

Girard and Makar play opposite sides (which is a big deal) and Byram projects as an all-situations stud.

On a team that already has a pure offensive LS defender in Hughes, another pure offensive LS defender in Juolevi is redundant.

I wouldn't mind having one the option of two defenseman capable of making plays offensively. Hughes with Horvat's line and Juolevi with Pettersson's line.

 

[DFAC]

Someone (a Leafs fan apparently) posted this proposal on the Leafs board. Unsurprisingly, most Leaf fans didn't like it but perhaps it indicates that Stecher is worth more than some give him credit for. What do you all think of this proposal? Kapanen would be an excellent fit on the third line but not entirely sure of the cap ramifications going forward. He is on a good contract for what he can provide. If we are reasonably confident that Tryamkin can be added at a decent cap hit for next season, I make this trade easily.


RD Troy Stecher (1.15 mill retention, which is almost 50%)
LW Tim Schaller

1.175 + 1.9 mill = 3.075 mill in.


RW Kasperi Kapanen
RD Justin Holl

3.2 + .675 = 3.875 mill out.

This would be absolute robbery- Leafs would be silly to do this (and this is coming from someone who actually like Stecher)

 

[Hoghandler]

What in Juolevi’s pro career thus far has encouraged you to project him this way? What does he do well at ES defensively?

I think if he was as good as you say he is defensively, he would have been in the line-up a year ago.

I see a smart player with strong defensive fundamentals, a player that is tough to beat one on one with a good gap and active stick. On the PK he's shown an ability to front his man well, while being good at taking away passing and shooting lanes. People don't think of outlet passing and holding the offensive blueline as defensive traits, but they are traits that will help you defend, by keeping the play out of your own end. In that vein, Olli isn't just a good passer, he is an elite passer. Can put the puck on the tape of a streaking forward with ease, from 70 feet away.

Juolevi has areas he needs to improve upon, but they are all things that should be rectified with experience/coaching and strength and conditioning improvements. He has been a strong skater in the past, and if he can stay healthy, I expect him to get back to where if it isn't a strength, it's no longer a weakness. He also needs to be better beating his man to the front of the net from the corners - another easily fixable weakness, through improved skating and coaching.

Never expected him to start last season in Vancouver. At just 20 years of age, coming off back surgery, with zero N. American pro experience, he was best suited going to Utica, play a lot of minutes and end up getting time later in the year. Unfortunately he didn't get that opportunity and ended up missing 60+ games.

 

[Hoghandler]

Because he'd be a PP specialist who wouldn't be needed on the PP - Hughes will be manning that role for years to come and Myers is signed for 5 years. What's the point?

I don't think this will ever be a player of significant value or utility for this team so if we can capitalize on his value and get something that actually can provide utility, that's what I'd be doing.

Juolevi will only be 25 when Myers is a UFA. Not to mention offensive ability usually goes before defense, so how much longer will Myers be a better PP option than Juolevi, if he in fact develops into a good PP dman?

I also don't envision Juolevi as a PP specialist. He has all the tools to be an all situations defender. I would even say Juolevi's elite outlet passing will be more valuable at even strength than it would with the man advantage. The league is all about quick transition and playing fast, and on that end, Juolevi could be a very valuable cog in playing that type of game. If he develops well, you're looking at a 1-2 punch on the left side that would make life easy for the forwards.

He is by no means untouchable. Just don't see any reason he would be on the block if he has a good year.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Why are we looking to trade Virtanen? No real interest in Kapanen either after I think about it. We need to upgrade our defense still by trade Stetcher+ for an upgrade. Big name older defenders like Letang and Weber should be looked at. Our offence is completely fine, and we have great prospects coming up like Podkolzin, Madden and Hoglander who will fight for spots in the next two years.

 

[VanillaCoke]

 

[Pip]

Why are we looking to trade Virtanen? No real interest in Kapanen either after I think about it. We need to upgrade our defense still by trade Stetcher+ for an upgrade. Big name older defenders like Letang and Weber should be looked at. Our offence is completely fine, and we have great prospects coming up like Podkolzin, Madden and Hoglander who will fight for spots in the next two years.

I’m so confused. Why would we possibly go after Letang/Weber?

 

[JanBulisPiggyBack]

I think our biggest additions are still through subtraction, we lose Sutter, Erickson and Possible Beagle and we can afford to improve our top six through free agency as well re-up Petey and Hughes in 2 years once Pearson and Edler move on