Red Sox/MLB 2019 Playoffs V - Lowell Spinners would lose Red Sox connection under radical MLB plan

[CDJ]

I’ll say this about John Henry- they would’ve signed willie mays and they do win titles! So that’s an upgrade no matter what

It doesn’t magically give them a spine or anything, but they’ve been very successful

 

[Fenian24]

Well 4 Championships in 15 years was nice. Back to watching them as a soap opera apparently

 

[McGarnagle]

Sometimes I think about the Sox teams I grew up watching under the Yawkey Trust, with Dan Duquette publicly undermining his managers in the media, a major toxic culture, and the massive sea change that occurred practically overnight when they sold the team in 2002 and Henry and Lucchino cleaned house, and for all the annoying things they do, I appreciate the Red Sox ownership.

 

[Smitty93]

Honestly, my fear is that they don't re-sign JD and trade Mookie, and then bottom out next year as they try to cut costs, only to then go an overpay someone else next offseason (like Sandoval and Hanley after 2014). I'm so appreciative of what this ownership group has done for this franchise to be able to win four World Series in the last 15 years, but the inconsistency in their thought process from year to year is maddening.

 

[N o o d l e s]

I’m very appreciative of them spending money and winning, but it doesn’t absolve them from the bad signings they’ve made which have put them in a position to need to cut costs due to their own mistakes and also winning doesn’t cover up for everything.

Obviously I’d rather they have won the four titles and be in the position we’re in now than not win at all, but I don’t think that’s the point. It seems like every time they win a title, they make an active effort to cut back costs and essentially ride the wave. For all the titles they’ve won, they have barely ever been competitive with the same core again. The one exception would be after winning in 2007 they should have won again in 2008 because that’s the best Red Sox team in my memory.

That to me tells me they’re complacent which is a major mistake and it has cost them the chance to be even more competitive than they even have been. If we’re at a point where we need to cut back costs and they do it by trading away an generational talent, then they shouldn’t own the team.

 

[CDJ]

I love JD but if he’s dumb enough to opt out I’m fine with him leaving

 

[Mr Cartmenez]

Everyone forgets about the Sox playoff record inbetween 1918 and 04 and how they have won 4 rings since then. I'll take the 21st century Sox.

I always wondered why the Sox owners are so unpopular in Boston. I think they have been doing a pretty fine job for the most part. Look how they have turned around Liverpool within a few years. They signed Klopp, so that makes them look pretty smart. Why wouldn't the same standard apply in baseball? IIRC correctly, they wanted Beane in the early stages of his moneyball-thing and gave a young Epstein the opportunity.

Henry has said that they were in disagreement with Dombrowski's on the approach last off-season, but none the less allowed him to do his thing. It didn't work and ownership was probably right, so Dombrowski had to face the consequences.

Trimming payroll for next year is fine by me. We knew for a few years that they were eventually going to have to get under it to reset. The penalties are pretty steep. So just get it done next year while re-tooling. Betts will be traded and JD stays (will not opt-out). The short term future does not look all that bright, but the farm is heading into the right direction and they will still have young building blocks like X and Devers on the team. Pitching is hit and miss, I can see them shooting for young pitching prospects in any Betts-deal.

 

[Elvis P]

On Sept. 28, 1960, Ted Williams goes deep for the last time in his final at-bat.

 

[CDJ]

I always wondered why the Sox owners are so unpopular in Boston. I think they have been doing a pretty fine job for the most part. Look how they have turned around Liverpool within a few years. They signed Klopp, so that makes them look pretty smart. Why wouldn't the same standard apply in baseball? IIRC correctly, they wanted Beane in the early stages of his moneyball-thing and gave a young Epstein the opportunity.

Henry has said that they were in disagreement with Dombrowski's on the approach last off-season, but none the less allowed him to do his thing. It didn't work and ownership was probably right, so Dombrowski had to face the consequences.

Trimming payroll for next year is fine by me. We knew for a few years that they were eventually going to have to get under it to reset. The penalties are pretty steep. So just get it done next year while re-tooling. Betts will be traded and JD stays (will not opt-out). The short term future does not look all that bright, but the farm is heading into the right direction and they will still have young building blocks like X and Devers on the team. Pitching is hit and miss, I can see them shooting for young pitching prospects in any Betts-deal.

San Diego has been aggressive in recent years, I wonder if they’d get involved with the idea of a Betts/Tatis/Machado top of the order

They’ve got the prospect depth, that’s for sure

 

[JRull86]

Its resale but as i am writing this the cheapest available ticket for tomorrows game vs Baltimore which is completely meaningless for both teams starts is 40$+ dollers . StubHub!

This right here is the issue.

$40 for bleachers to see the shitty Orioles in a meaningless game in September.

Can't wait for this roster to be not good enough to win, but not nearly bad enough to truly rebuild, and listening to Werner and Kennedy spout nonsense again. Next year about why they deserved to make the postseason, while claiming fans are showing up.

It sounds like sour grapes or entitlement, but when you have the capital and the talent on a roster like they do, there is no reason they should be looking to slash payroll because of the f***ing luxury tax.

Shed dead weight contracts if possible? Sure, absolutely. But letting players like JDM walk, and trading Betts (unless he truly says he's not re-signing) is indefensible.

It's one thing to want to stay under the high threshold due to the draft pick implications, I understand, and support that. But getting under the minimum, all while charging a premium for tickets? Get the hell out of here with that.

 

[BMC]

You can be ruined by success just as much as by failure. At one time Henry, Werner & Lucchino were all on the same page. 17 years and 4 championships later it certainly looks like there is a lot of turmoil developing- heck Lucchino apparently has been ousted in all but name- IMO this will not end well unless they get their act together. Who will want to be GM when ownership is in apparent disarray & has decided to cut payroll? What free agents will want to sign here? Who else besides Mookie will want out??

Stay tuned...

 

[LouJersey]

Alonso did it!

 

[CDJ]

Alonso looks like a cartoon gorilla holding a twig when he’s batting, he’s a moon scraper

 

[Mr Cartmenez]

San Diego has been aggressive in recent years, I wonder if they’d get involved with the idea of a Betts/Tatis/Machado top of the order

They’ve got the prospect depth, that’s for sure

Yes, that's a good possibility. Atlanta would obviously be another destination. I know people keep saying that we won't get that great of a package due to the rental thing and Mookie going to be very expensive, but I kinda disagree. It's unusual that players of his calibre getting traded and there is always a GM who is pressured to go for it. Maybe teams like the Twins or the Phillies?

No matter what, it's gonna be a very interesting off-season, that's for sure.

 

[Fenway]

Luxury tax for next year is set at $208 million. Assuming that J.D.Martinez doesn't opt out, they'll start out with the following salary obligations:

David Price $32 mil
Martinez 23.75
Eovaldi 17
Pedrioa 13.125
Sale 30
Bogaerts 20
Vazquez 4.2 = $140,075,000 for 7 players, or really 6 if you figure Pedroia is finished.

Then we go to arbitration-eligible players. Let's start by non-tendering Sandy Leon, Steven Wright, Heath Hembree, Juan Centendo, and Gorkys Hernandez.

There are several people online who do pretty accurate arbitration projections, but since the season is over those haven't come out yet - so these are just wild guestimates on my part:

Mookie Betts $25 mil (highest-ever one-year salary was Josh Donaldson $23 mil 2 years ago)

Bradley $10
E-Rod $7.5
Barnes $2.2
Workman $2.5
Benintendi $2,3
Hernandez 800K
Total: $50.3 million for 7 players.

So we're already up over 190 million, and we only have half the roster set. We can assume that Rafael Devers, Michael Chavis, Darwinzon Hernandez, Marcus Walden, and Josh Taylor will be added to the roster collectively they'll only command around $2.5 million in salary. But we're still only up to 18 players and have only about $15 million left to fill out the roster.

So what to do?

 

[Fenway]

I figured she was behind Lucchino once Janet Marie Smith was removed

Janet Marie Smith was a star - err is a star

I knew right then

Interesting that Werner holds the cards in a way - amazing

Vinik is supposed to be a real good guy isn’t he ?

Vinik wanders around Amalie Arena getting fans feedback. It's a well-run operation.

 

[McGarnagle]

Luxury tax for next year is set at $208 million. Assuming that J.D.Martinez doesn't opt out, they'll start out with the following salary obligations:

David Price $32 mil
Martinez 23.75
Eovaldi 17
Pedrioa 13.125
Sale 30
Bogaerts 20
Vazquez 4.2 = $140,075,000 for 7 players, or really 6 if you figure Pedroia is finished.

Then we go to arbitration-eligible players. Let's start by non-tendering Sandy Leon, Steven Wright, Heath Hembree, Juan Centendo, and Gorkys Hernandez.

There are several people online who do pretty accurate arbitration projections, but since the season is over those haven't come out yet - so these are just wild guestimates on my part:

Mookie Betts $25 mil (highest-ever one-year salary was Josh Donaldson $23 mil 2 years ago)

Bradley $10
E-Rod $7.5
Barnes $2.2
Workman $2.5
Benintendi $2,3
Hernandez 800K
Total: $50.3 million for 7 players.

So we're already up over 190 million, and we only have half the roster set. We can assume that Rafael Devers, Michael Chavis, Darwinzon Hernandez, Marcus Walden, and Josh Taylor will be added to the roster collectively they'll only command around $2.5 million in salary. But we're still only up to 18 players and have only about $15 million left to fill out the roster.

So what to do?

At those numbers, I'd look at Jackie Bradley as the guy to deal. I love him, he's the best defensive OF I've seen in my life, but that's not $10 million worth of production when Mookie or Benny could man CF and you can get an average defender with a decent stick to throw in left field for a third of that money, even if it's just Brock Holt.

 

[Fenway]

The Red Sox ownership seems oblivious to the reason why the team is now a distant second to the Patriots in popularity and yet they own a property that should drive that home in Liverpool.

A Patriots game is once a week and with a defined 3 - 3 1/2 hour window. Liverpool plays 40 to 50 meaningful games a year with a 2-hour window. Celtics and Bruins play 82 games a season and the window in 2 1/2 to 3 hours.

Baseball? 162 games and the window was best described by George Carlin



15-20 years ago the Red Sox were 24/7/365 - New Englanders bought into conquering the summit especially against New York.

I have been in a room several times when Tom Werner would castigate us for not providing the same numbers that the Patriots did.

The reality is NESN during the summer still is the most-watched channel in prime time but today it is a universe of 260 cable channels and numerous streaming options.

Werner struck gold with several TV sitcoms but he knows NOTHING about regional sports. He thought Orsillo and Remy getting into gigglefests were unprofessional but didn't understand that moments like this is why we kept watching,



The reality is today most of us get push notifications about teams we care about and if at home we may then change the station to watch.

 

[DKH]

Vinik wanders around Amalie Arena getting fans feedback. It's a well-run operation.

He’s from here ? Weston ?

 

[DKH]

Luxury tax for next year is set at $208 million. Assuming that J.D.Martinez doesn't opt out, they'll start out with the following salary obligations:

David Price $32 mil
Martinez 23.75
Eovaldi 17
Pedrioa 13.125
Sale 30
Bogaerts 20
Vazquez 4.2 = $140,075,000 for 7 players, or really 6 if you figure Pedroia is finished.

Then we go to arbitration-eligible players. Let's start by non-tendering Sandy Leon, Steven Wright, Heath Hembree, Juan Centendo, and Gorkys Hernandez.

There are several people online who do pretty accurate arbitration projections, but since the season is over those haven't come out yet - so these are just wild guestimates on my part:

Mookie Betts $25 mil (highest-ever one-year salary was Josh Donaldson $23 mil 2 years ago)

Bradley $10
E-Rod $7.5
Barnes $2.2
Workman $2.5
Benintendi $2,3
Hernandez 800K
Total: $50.3 million for 7 players.

So we're already up over 190 million, and we only have half the roster set. We can assume that Rafael Devers, Michael Chavis, Darwinzon Hernandez, Marcus Walden, and Josh Taylor will be added to the roster collectively they'll only command around $2.5 million in salary. But we're still only up to 18 players and have only about $15 million left to fill out the roster.

So what to do?

I’d start with trading Price even if it means eating some of it

Looking at this it’s stunning

1. Dombrowski signed Sale - injuries or not. The injury makes it mind boggling

2. Henry didn’t step in

Of course if he did he’s a meddling owner

They need to pay the penalties and sign Betts

 

[KrejciMVP]

Honestly, my fear is that they don't re-sign JD and trade Mookie, and then bottom out next year as they try to cut costs, only to then go an overpay someone else next offseason (like Sandoval and Hanley after 2014). I'm so appreciative of what this ownership group has done for this franchise to be able to win four World Series in the last 15 years, but the inconsistency in their thought process from year to year is maddening.

thats what I think will happen too. They let JD and Mookie go, Sox have a terrible year and panic bc the fans won't accept mediocrity and they sign a few more busts to huge contracts when really it would have been easier to keep JD and Mookie

 

[N o o d l e s]

Here’s a dumb question. Why are there tiebreaker games for division winners if they play against each other 19 times?

Why don’t they just use head to head as the first tiebreaker?

 

[BMC]

Luxury tax for next year is set at $208 million. Assuming that J.D.Martinez doesn't opt out, they'll start out with the following salary obligations:

David Price $32 mil
Martinez 23.75
Eovaldi 17
Pedrioa 13.125
Sale 30
Bogaerts 20
Vazquez 4.2 = $140,075,000 for 7 players, or really 6 if you figure Pedroia is finished.

Then we go to arbitration-eligible players. Let's start by non-tendering Sandy Leon, Steven Wright, Heath Hembree, Juan Centendo, and Gorkys Hernandez.

There are several people online who do pretty accurate arbitration projections, but since the season is over those haven't come out yet - so these are just wild guestimates on my part:

Mookie Betts $25 mil (highest-ever one-year salary was Josh Donaldson $23 mil 2 years ago)

Bradley $10
E-Rod $7.5
Barnes $2.2
Workman $2.5
Benintendi $2,3
Hernandez 800K
Total: $50.3 million for 7 players.

So we're already up over 190 million, and we only have half the roster set. We can assume that Rafael Devers, Michael Chavis, Darwinzon Hernandez, Marcus Walden, and Josh Taylor will be added to the roster collectively they'll only command around $2.5 million in salary. But we're still only up to 18 players and have only about $15 million left to fill out the roster.


So what to do?

Panic

 

[Fenway]

I’d start with trading Price even if it means eating some of it

Looking at this it’s stunning

1. Dombrowski signed Sale - injuries or not. The injury makes it mind boggling

2. Henry didn’t step in

Of course if he did he’s a meddling owner

They need to pay the penalties and sign Betts

Nobody can begrudge Mookie for looking for the best deal and there are multiple teams that will pay up. Look for the White Sox to pounce as they need something to become relevant in Chicago again and their ballpark is perfect for Mookie.

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/w...rtedly-could-have-been-worth-much-350-million

The Red Sox biggest hurdle is convincing someone with the resume to join the Fenway circus and Ben Charrington is the reason.

Rosenthal: The many reasons the Red Sox’ head of baseball...

Cherington, 45, is from the same generation as many of the prospective candidates, and virtually all of them respect him greatly.

The younger execs admire the accomplishments of Dombrowski, 63. But with Cherington, the connection is deeper, the concern over the Red Sox’s treatment of him greater.

Cherington, now the Blue Jays’ vice-president of baseball operations, was not a perfect GM. But he was practically a Red Sox lifer, spending 16 years with the club, contributing to three World Series champions and helping build the farm system that Dombrowski later used to his advantage in trades. Friends describe him as fair and level-headed, a portrait of equanimity. And yet, even Cherington grew especially stressed out running the Red Sox.

Never extroverted, Cherington became occasionally reclusive. And while the Sox gave Cherington a chance to stay after hiring Dombrowski in August 2015, they did so only after humiliating him, casting him aside as if he was a recently hired temp.

Which leads prospective candidates to wonder: “If Ben couldn’t survive, how would I?”

 

[DKH]

Nobody can begrudge Mookie for looking for the best deal and there are multiple teams that will pay up. Look for the White Sox to pounce as they need something to become relevant in Chicago again and their ballpark is perfect for Mookie.

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/w...rtedly-could-have-been-worth-much-350-million

The Red Sox biggest hurdle is convincing someone with the resume to join the Fenway circus and Ben Charrington is the reason.

Rosenthal: The many reasons the Red Sox’ head of baseball...

Cherington, 45, is from the same generation as many of the prospective candidates, and virtually all of them respect him greatly.

The younger execs admire the accomplishments of Dombrowski, 63. But with Cherington, the connection is deeper, the concern over the Red Sox’s treatment of him greater.

Cherington, now the Blue Jays’ vice-president of baseball operations, was not a perfect GM. But he was practically a Red Sox lifer, spending 16 years with the club, contributing to three World Series champions and helping build the farm system that Dombrowski later used to his advantage in trades. Friends describe him as fair and level-headed, a portrait of equanimity. And yet, even Cherington grew especially stressed out running the Red Sox.

Never extroverted, Cherington became occasionally reclusive. And while the Sox gave Cherington a chance to stay after hiring Dombrowski in August 2015, they did so only after humiliating him, casting him aside as if he was a recently hired temp.

Which leads prospective candidates to wonder: “If Ben couldn’t survive, how would I?”

I was a Cherrington guy and when Ramirez & especially Sandoval signed I :

1. Had flashbacks to the week the Sox signed Matt Young, Danny Darwin, and Jack Clark.

Dark days

2. The Signings didn’t seem like a Cherrington move

I always assumed it was Werner being the GM