2019 NHL Entry Draft Thread

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Habs Halifax

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He's not in the same conversation as Hughes. He's a back up consolation prize for Hughes.

I'm very interested to see what kind of season Lavoie has and he will get lots of exposure with Halifax hosting the Memorial Cup. I love the way this kid plays but his skating needs to improve. To be honest, I was more a fan of Lavoie as the season went along vs Zadina.

As far as Newhook. I have not seen too much of him so I will wait to evaluate him starting in January
 
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Andrei79

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Slave labour? No one is forcing them to play in the CHL, they choose to do that themselves. Sure, there's a few businessmen and team owners out there profiting off them, but these kids are getting something out of it too. They get a chance to develop and prepare for higher levels of play, and are able to do for free what other kids their age pay good money to do, and also get one free year of tuition for each season they play in the CHL, which is great compensation.

It's practically a monopoly for young, talented canadian players. They have demands, expectations and consequences similar to what you'd expect from a 16-20 pro league looking to run a profit. They're essentially a workforce and the student-athlete designation keeps costs down legally. I mean, the moment you have pro potential you're basically never going to touch those tuition payments and those are the players who bring fans to the games. If you wait too long, no free tuition. If you're going into engineering, you're paid partially. If you take a small sabatical, you lose the priviledge. If you get cut before Jan 10, you lose it. The amount basically came down to 8800$/student, which is essentially a 14$/hr 4 month summer job, which only a portion of the athletes eventually use. Fine if you're a non profit, but as you said, this is a business, meaning with profits and higher team valuation in mind.
 
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Habs76

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It's practically a monopoly for young, talented canadian players. They have demands, expectations and consequences similar to what you'd expect from a 16-20 pro league looking to run a profit. They're essentially a workforce and the student-athlete designation keeps costs down legally. I mean, the moment you have pro potential you're basically never going to touch those tuition payments and those are the players who bring fans to the games. If you wait too long, no free tuition. If you're going into engineering, you're paid partially. If you take a small sabatical, you lose the priviledge. If you get cut before Jan 10, you lose it. The amount basically came down to 8800$/student, which is essentially a 14$/hr 4 month summer job, which only a portion of the athletes eventually use. Fine if you're a non profit, but as you said, this is a business, meaning with profits and higher team valuation in mind.
So $8,800 a year isn't good money for a kid at that age? That's nothing to shake your head at- and if a player is cut from the team, how much money are they actually making them anyways?

It's not perfect, but players aren't attracted to the CHL for the money. They play there to gain exposure and develop as players. If they don't want to, there are other options such as the NCAA route.
 

NotProkofievian

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So $8,800 a year isn't good money for a kid at that age? That's nothing to shake your head at- and if a player is cut from the team, how much money are they actually making them anyways?

It's not perfect, but players aren't attracted to the CHL for the money. They play there to gain exposure and develop as players. If they don't want to, there are other options such as the NCAA route.

I think more and more top prospects will opt for the NCAA route. Just from a scholastic perspective, it's a more rational choice. You can get your degree paid for and try for a pro-hockey career. Can't do that with the CHL deal.
 

Mrb1p

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I think more and more top prospects will opt for the NCAA route. Just from a scholastic perspective, it's a more rational choice. You can get your degree paid for and try for a pro-hockey career. Can't do that with the CHL deal.
Its a lot easier to concentrate on just one thing though. Theres a 3 or 4 years period to stay relevant as a prospect to get a pro contract, school is available all your life.
 

NotProkofievian

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Its a lot easier to concentrate on just one thing though. Theres a 3 or 4 years period to stay relevant as a prospect to get a pro contract, school is available all your life.

Okay, but school is only paid for by the CHL if you don't attempt to make a run at being a pro-prospect. Meanwhile, plenty of pros develop in the NCAA while getting their degrees paid for.
 

Andrei79

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So $8,800 a year isn't good money for a kid at that age? That's nothing to shake your head at- and if a player is cut from the team, how much money are they actually making them anyways?

It's not perfect, but players aren't attracted to the CHL for the money. They play there to gain exposure and develop as players. If they don't want to, there are other options such as the NCAA route.

No, its not good money, its recieved post-work and given under set circumstances not available to all workers. Its also under minimim wage for the hours they put in and thats for the players who actually do benefit from it. Its miniscule compared to the revenues they generate. Saying they could go the NCAA route assumes the players would want to play lower level hockey like junior A, relocate to the US for their junior years and studies(including quebecers who dont master english well enough to do a university degree), and have the necessary grades to do it.

In reality, it's basically become an accepted thing that these players should just be happy with what the CHL offers when the real issue is we have a 1950s system in 2018. The business model relies on making sure the workforce isn't recognized as such. And that's my issue with calling it a business. If it is, worker compensation and labor law restrictions need to follow.
 
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Andrei79

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Okay, but school is only paid for by the CHL if you don't attempt to make a run at being a pro-prospect. Meanwhile, plenty of pros develop in the NCAA while getting their degrees paid for.

At higher expense and with more paid. More time is given for skill and physical development as well. Not every league pays for boarding in the CHL either. Not where tuition is higher.
 

Habs76

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Okay, but school is only paid for by the CHL if you don't attempt to make a run at being a pro-prospect. Meanwhile, plenty of pros develop in the NCAA while getting their degrees paid for.
Actually, kids have I believe 18 months to chase the minor pro route before they have to make a decision
 

Habs76

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No, its not good money, its recieved post-work and given under set circumstances not available to all workers. Its also under minimim wage for the hours they put in and thats for the players who actually do benefit from it. Its miniscule compared to the revenues they generate. Saying they could go the NCAA route assumes the players would want to play lower level hockey like junior A, relocate to the US for their junior years and studies(including quebecers who dont all speak english), and have the necessary grades to do it.

In reality, it's basically become an accepted thing that these players should just be happy with what the CHL offers when the real issue is we have a 1950s system in 2018. The business model relies on making sure the workforce isn't recognized as such. And that's my issue with calling it a business. If it is, worker compensation and labor law restrictions need to follow.
Okay, it's not "good pay"- but they are still getting compensated for something others their age have to pay for. They're not forced to play in the CHL, and by playing there they get some compensation. A lot of CHL clubs fail to make a profit and lose money year after year, there's no way they could afford to pay players on top of the fees they've already got.
 

NotProkofievian

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Okay, it's not "good pay"- but they are still getting compensated for something others their age have to pay for. They're not forced to play in the CHL, and by playing there they get some compensation. A lot of CHL clubs fail to make a profit and lose money year after year, there's no way they could afford to pay players on top of the fees they've already got.

If you sign an AHL contract, for example, which many CHL alumni do as development camp invites, you forfeit your scholarship. Signing a contract in some euro leagues will also cause you to lose your scholarship. So far as I know, you can play in the ECHL and not lose it.
 

Habs76

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If you sign an AHL contract, for example, which many CHL alumni do as development camp invites, you forfeit your scholarship. Signing a contract in some euro leagues will also cause you to lose your scholarship. So far as I know, you can play in the ECHL and not lose it.
Didn't know the rules for each league, thanks.
 

Andrei79

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Okay, it's not "good pay"- but they are still getting compensated for something others their age have to pay for. They're not forced to play in the CHL, and by playing there they get some compensation. A lot of CHL clubs fail to make a profit and lose money year after year, there's no way they could afford to pay players on top of the fees they've already got.

Well, your point to defend the CHL was that it's a business, after all.

It's a pretty lucky business not to be submitted to the actual laws in place that businesses have to in any other venture. It would apparently crumble if it did. That's with inherent advantages like brand value, TV and streaming deals, 3rd world labor expenses, pro league support and almost a monopoly on Canadian U20 players. That doesn't paint either a good picture of an optimal business or development model.

Without killing the CHL, some changes can be made to benefit everyone (mostly).
 
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Habs76

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Well, your point to defend the CHL was that it's a business, after all.

It's a pretty lucky business not to be submitted to the actual laws in place that businesses have to in any other venture. It would apparently crumble if it did. That's with inherent advantages like brand value, TV and streaming deals, 3rd world labor expenses, pro league support and almost a monopoly on Canadian U20 players. That doesn't paint either a good picture of an optimal business or development model.
They have a monopoly on players because players choose the CHL route. If players want to be paid, maybe they could boycott the CHL. If a lot of top talent refuses to play in the league because of poor compensation, maybe they'll start to get paid. I definitely think some teams could afford it, but other small market teams would be in deep debt.

Anyways here's what I'm trying to say: if players are willing to play under these conditions when there are other options on the table (Jr. A, USHL/NAHL, Midget, prep school, NCAA, etc), maybe it's not so bad?

Also @NotProkofievian , it appears only an NHL ELC voids the CHL college fund for a player.
 

NotProkofievian

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They have a monopoly on players because players choose the CHL route. If players want to be paid, maybe they could boycott the CHL. If a lot of top talent refuses to play in the league because of poor compensation, maybe they'll start to get paid. I definitely think some teams could afford it, but other small market teams would be in deep debt.

Eh, if the players are so gleefully choosing the CHL, then the CHL can stand the addition of a national program competitor, no?

Anyways here's what I'm trying to say: if players are willing to play under these conditions when there are other options on the table (Jr. A, USHL/NAHL, Midget, prep school, NCAA, etc), maybe it's not so bad?

Also @NotProkofievian , it appears only an NHL ELC voids the CHL college fund for a player.

http://www.chlclassaction.com/wp-co...-copy-of-the-WHL-Standar-Player-Agreement.pdf

For example, Section 3.1 (d) (i) would seem to disagree.
 

Habs76

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Eh, if the players are so gleefully choosing the CHL, then the CHL can stand the addition of a national program competitor, no?



http://www.chlclassaction.com/wp-co...-copy-of-the-WHL-Standar-Player-Agreement.pdf

For example, Section 3.1 (d) (i) would seem to disagree.
How the CHL is doing better than ever by its players - Sportsnet.ca

"Ten years ago, Boudreau’s signing with that French team—what amounted to a European vacation—would have automatically voided the education package he had earned in four QMJHL seasons. But under the system instituted a few years back, only an entry-level NHL contract voids a CHL education package. At a lower level, players have a window to activate their benefits. For 19-year-olds, it’s 30 months; for overage players, it’s 18. In other words, players can take their shots or, in the case of a player like Boudreau, not have an ill-advised decision punish them. “It’s fair that what we put in time for isn’t taken away,” he says."


It says 10 years ago it was different, so maybe the rule changed in between now and when the lawsuit was filed?

And no, I don't think the CHL can stand to lose all its potential superstars to a national team. No kid is going to choose the Flint Firebirds over Team Canada.
 
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