HF Habs: 2019 Montreal Canadiens Training Camp Part 2: Cuts are coming edition

[Runner77]

That quote will be repeated when someone will talk about Gallagher.

Good point. Gallagher comes to play. Gotta love players like him, he leaves everything on the ice.

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

And when he signed, it wasn't feeling dirty like when Linden and Kaberle ended up here. This was goddamn Doug Gilmour! Even if he was almost 40 it was cool to have him.

Took me a while to warm up to him, lots of hate from that 89 series

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Compared to the beginning of last season

Out: Shaw, Peca, hudon, reilly, juulsen, benn, niemi

In: Suzuki, Poehling, Weal, Chariot, Fleury, Weber, kinkaid

Thats a considerable improvement to start the season

 

[Runner77]

Good thing the Habs’s competition has regressed in the meantime.

 

[OldCraig71]

Good thing the Habs’s competition has regressed in the meantime.

They are all waiting for "Bergie" to catch up don't you know?

 

[Runner77]

They are all waiting for "Bergie" to catch up don't you know?

He’ll never catch up if we based it on this morning’s Marinaro softball interview.

He did say the league is hard. Seems harder on him than other GMs.

 

[Kriss E]

I wasn't hysteric , in reality i was laughing in front of my monitor
My question would be more why they used him that way ? Of course there always things you can change , but if the guy doesn't work , doesn't listen to his coach but his father , i can understand that they used him that way

Don't answer my question with another question, avoidance 101.
Understanding why they used him that way doesn't make it right. I know why they did it too, and can easily say they made a mistake. Can you not even admit that? All the things you said...it's just BS to avoid admitting the obvious, they screwed up.

 

[OldCraig71]

He’ll never catch up if we based it on this morning’s Marinaro softball interview.

He did say the league is hard. Seems harder on him than other GMs.

Did he really say the league was hard? What a gem. He has made his job much harder than it needed to be with boneheaded moves on and off the ice. If things are finally turning around I will only believe it is because some of his decision making power has been taken away. Dear God let this be the last year of Bergevin. It should be in all of our prayers.

 

[JianYang]

Compared to the beginning of last season

Out: Shaw, Peca, hudon, reilly, juulsen, benn, niemi

In: Suzuki, Poehling, Weal, Chariot, Fleury, Weber, kinkaid

Thats a considerable improvement to start the season

Weber is the obviously the big deal here.

How the habs survived defensively last year during his rehab is something that will remain a mystery to me, but I do recall the team beginning to fall apart and bleeding goals towards the end of that stretch

 

[Runner77]

Did he really say the league was hard? What a gem. He has made his job much harder than it needed to be with boneheaded moves on and off the ice. If things are finally turning around I will only believe it is because some of his decision making power has been taken away. Dear God let this be the last year of Bergevin. It should be in all of our prayers.

I listened to it again to lift the exact quote.

"It's not an easy league. There's a lot of competition in this league now. The rules are the same for everybody. It's hard."

Well, yeah. If it were an easy league, then there would be no need for a GM.

But some of that competition finds a way to fare better than other competition. Isn't that what it's all about?

 

[HTTP 400]

Compared to the beginning of last season

Out: Shaw, Peca, hudon, reilly, juulsen, benn, niemi

In: Suzuki, Poehling, Weal, Chariot, Fleury, Weber, kinkaid

Thats a considerable improvement to start the season

If you want to compare to the beginning of last season, you have to include Deslauriers, Chaput and Agostino in the "out" category as they were our 4th line for 1/3 of the season.

 

[bsl]

Because he sucked, it's not hard to understand.

A lot of people have a hard time with the truth. I pray the kid takes a step up this year. Not so sure. Have never been sure. But hell I’ll give him time.

You need to calm down.

KK was the youngest player in the league last season and needed the sheltered minutes as was clearly demonstrated with his 0 goals on the road. This season he will still likely be amongst the 5th-7 th youngest players in the league and 3rd line minutes plus PP time is more than reasonable for him.

It is mostly a myth that teams screw up players.....players just weren't as good as some of the fans wanted them to be. Galchenyuk is 100% to blame for his own problems, hopefully he can take advantage of his new opportunity but he has proven that he is not a center and is not the player that most of us expected him to become.

Good post.

My dream is this but it's 2 or 3 seasons from now when they are at their best...

- Drouin, Petry, Primeau, and a future 2nd for Laine.
- Suzuki, Kotkaniemi, Poehling, Romanov, Brook, Struble are top of the line-up impact players

Domi / Kotkaniemi / Laine
Poehling / Suzuki / Caufield
Tatar / Danault / Gallagher
Byron / Weal or Evans / Armia
Ylonen, Pitlick,

Struble / Weber
Romanov / Brook
Mete / Fleury
Juulsen, Harris, Norlinder

Price
Dichow

Throwing primeau in is dangerous and not required. I have zero confidence in price’s health and situation. Habs need to draft another good young goalie next year as well. But not in round one or two. That would be my first instruction to my scouting team if I was gm. They had better be scouring the planet.

 

[Runner77]

What's in a name?

At least vegetative is not an option.

 

[bsl]

Where is this mind boggling assumption that Kotkaniemi is not a potentially high end defensive center coming from? That's been the best aspect of his game in his short career. I don't understand the Danault vs Kotkaniemi fascination. If anything, Kotkaniemi probably just has the potential to be a more offensively gifted version of Danault if things break right.

Years and years of trying to replace frigging guy carbonneau. No lemaire in sight though. I Despair.

Please stop with the Petry trade scenarios, he's not going anywhere any time soon. He's our best PMD and they won't trade him.

How do you know what habs will do? Please enlighten us. [Mod]

Let's wait 'till we get there, and let's also not forget that Danault might not even have peaked yet.

I can't believe how much this fanbase want a 2-way, 5-on-5 producing and tough-minutes muncher Center to be shipped out.

Could it be that he can’t score goals on a barn door?

 

[26Mats]

Compared to the beginning of last season

Out: Shaw, Peca, hudon, reilly, juulsen, benn, niemi

In: Suzuki, Poehling, Weal, Chariot, Fleury, Weber, kinkaid

Thats a considerable improvement to start the season

add to this the fact that most of our players are young players that are getting a year closer to their prime. I expect most of them, if not all to be better: (Plus I think Petry is aging like fine wine)

Armia, 26 > Armia, 25
Domi 24 > Domi 23
Danault 26 > Danault 25
Drouin 24 > Drouin 23
Gallagher 27 > Gallagher 26
Kotkaniemi 19 > Kotkaniemi 18
Kulak 26 > Kulak 25
Lehkonen 24 > Lehkonen 23
Mete 21 > Mete 20
Petry 32 > Petry 31?

Byron 29 = Byron 28?
Tatar 29 = Tatar 28?
Price 32 = Price 31?

Weber 34 =< Weber 33?

 

[bsl]

Of course, we all have our agendas: that is precisely what I'm getting at. ''Player good therefore no trade'' is not addressing anyone's agenda. Good players get traded all the time, and indeed, it's tough to trade a bad player.

I'll give you an example of an agenda: I think we should trade Petry because his value will never be higher, and his return is likely to be worth more than Jeff Petry in 4 years. I do not think this team is a stanley cup contender with or without Petry, and it would likely take us several years and some good luck to get there. Thus I think trading Petry is likely to contribute positively to the team's assets over the medium to long term.

What's your agenda with keeping Petry?

Good post. But don’t waste your energy.

I know Lavoie is not a favorite among many on this board but I agree with his post. Actually, I've said as much in previous posts. If KK & Suzuki continue to play the way they have, Jesperi will be using the metro to get to his games. Actually, he's lucky Poehling was injured or it would be a slam dunk.

I want the Habs to take more than the necessary time for Poehling. It's a concussion. But I think KK has until Poehling recovers and spends his week or two in Laval to get in shape. If KK is still playing at the level he is right now, he'll be in Laval by mid-October.

Ok, I'm bracing myself for all the hate coming my way.

No hate from me. I agree. The nhl is a tough league and some talented kids need time.

You could also ask "are we winning with Price and Weber?". Why not trade them too?

If the plan is to win with Price and Weber, then I don't see how getting rid of a 40+ point RD is going to help with that. I might see the logic if Petry was older than Price or Weber, but he's younger, so should be able to contribute as long as

 

[ECWHSWI]

Compared to the beginning of last season

Out: Shaw, Peca, hudon, reilly, juulsen, benn, niemi

In: Suzuki, Poehling, Weal, Chariot, Fleury, Weber, kinkaid

Thats a considerable improvement to start the season

so, 100 pts season, 102, 104 ??

 

[bsl]

HF is the ultimate in hot takes. We lost to a stacked cup contender playing their full squad while icing a mishmash of mostly AHL talent and guys who were disinterested.

At least we have a bright spot in Suzuki and Fleury otherwise it would be a complete mess here

So what? I don’t care if this board is a mess. In fact I like it when it’s a mess.

I would trade Primeau cause I bet you Price can do what Rinne can in his 30’s. 7 more years with Price from 32-38.

What do think has a higher probability in the next 7 years? Primeau turns into a top 10 NHL goalie or Price remains a top 10 Goalie? I’ll let you think about that one.

And yeah, I do like Primeau too but there are no guarantees and we are talking about Laine here man

Trading primeau in a package for anyone but mcdavid would be incredibly stupid. And more importantly not necessary. You have this thing where you don’t admit mistakes. f***ing irritating. Really. You f***ed up. You threw primeau into a trade not understanding how fragile and expensive price is. Just own up. Jesus.

Indeed, it's a valid question. The first answer that comes to mind is that we're basically stuck with them. Price at 10.5 probably has a lot less value than you think. We'd have to retain a bit and over a long period of time, that's just so annoying that I don't think it's worth it. Weber is probably more movable given that his Salary goes down quite a bit soon, and is already below his AAV.

But I think your question is more general: why keep anyone in particular if we're not winning the cup? Let's say that you had a veteran core of 3 players of the exact same age and contract status, and you've decided that they just don't have what it takes to bring the cup home. Trade all of them? I propose, and have proposed for some time, that you trade just enough of them to be bad. Once you're bad, there's no point in moving further assets. If you move from mediocre to bad by trading a player, you not only get their return, but all of your draft picks gain value. Once you're bad, your draft picks no longer gain value by trading a player to become worse, so you'd just have to replace their contributions.

Brilliance as usual from you. But why bother.

 

[HabsEstrie]

Could it be that he can’t score goals on a barn door?

LMAO way to screw up a quote, score goals on a barn door

 

[bsl]

I think that most of us should take a break from these boards with these crazy overreactions loool.

Call it a day, go drink a coffee by the lake. I don't know. Y'all will explode of heart attacks.

True. Coffee by the lake though? I think vodka soda. And I’ll skip the lake.

LMAO way to screw up a quote, score goals on a barn door

It is a metaphor. A metaphor. A way in our language to clarify an idea with a big picture. Usually visual because most people can understand it then. I’m exhausted. Love you guys and gals.

 

[Steve Shutt]

Summary of Cuts:

• [URL='http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=187450']Liam Hawel

• (released from ATO) (Sept 16)
• Gianni Fairbrother (to Everett, WHL) (Sept 18)
• McNiven (Sept 21)
• LaCouvee (Sept 21)
• Lamarche (Sept 21)
• Sklenicka (Sept 21)
• Culkin (Sept 21)
• Adams-Moisan (Sept 21)
• Pelletier (Sept 21)
• Cox (Sept 21)
• Verbeek (Sept 21)
• Alain (Sept 21)
• Waked (Sept 21)
• Jevpalovs (Sept 21)
• Pezzetta (Sept 21)
• Vejdemo (Sept 21)
• Leskinen (Sept 22)
• Primeau (Sept 22)
• Brook (Sept 24)
• Belzile (Sept 24)
• Evans (Sept 24)
• Barber (Sept 24 --> cleared waivers)
• Ouellet (Sept 27 --> cleared waivers)
• Varone (Sept 27 --> cleared waivers)
• Alzner (Sept 27 --> cleared waivers)
• Weise (Sept 27 --> cleared waivers)
• Peca (Sept 27 --> cleared waivers)

[/URL]
Sticking around a bit longer but likely to be cut:

• Lindgren (waivers)

Injured but heading to Laval when healthy:

• McCarron (waivers)
• Olofsson (waivers)
• Juulsen
• Teasdale <-- or back to the QMJHL

Tough Decisions (only room for 4)

• Suzuki
• Folin (waivers)
• Reilly (waivers)
• Hudon (waivers)
• Fleury
• Poehling

Forward Assumptions (Gallagher, Tatar, Danault, Domi, Drouin, Lekhonen, Kotkaniemi, Armia, Byron, Cousins, Thompson, Weal) = 12 + 2 of the above (I'm betting on Suzuki & Hudon)
Defense Assumptions (Weber, Mete, Petry, Chiarot, Kulak) = 5 +2 of the above (likely Reilly & Fleury)
Goalie Assumptions (Price, Kinkaid) = 2

If everyone is healthy than the decision becomes is it worth exposing an asset or is it better to send a prospect down to Laval for more ice time:

• Hudon vs Poehling
• Fleury vs Reilly/Folin

 

[CheldishGamibno]

Like you said above, I don't think it's worth losing an asset right now. I'd start Poehling and Fleury in the AHL, they'll get a call up if one of Reilly/Folin/Hudon plays bad hockey. Could happen faster than we think.

 

[The Real Timo]

Summary of Cuts:

• 
  
• Liam Hawel (released from ATO) (Sept 16)
• Gianni Fairbrother (to Everett, WHL) (Sept 18)
• McNiven (Sept 21)
• LaCouvee (Sept 21)
• Lamarche (Sept 21)
• Sklenicka (Sept 21)
• Culkin (Sept 21)
• Adams-Moisan (Sept 21)
• Pelletier (Sept 21)
• Cox (Sept 21)
• Verbeek (Sept 21)
• Alain (Sept 21)
• Waked (Sept 21)
• Jevpalovs (Sept 21)
• Pezzetta (Sept 21)
• Vejdemo (Sept 21)
• Leskinen (Sept 22)
• Primeau (Sept 22)
• Brook (Sept 24)
• Belzile (Sept 24)
• Evans (Sept 24)
• Barber (Sept 24 --> cleared waivers)
• Ouellet (Sept 27 --> cleared waivers)
• Varone (Sept 27 --> cleared waivers)
• Alzner (Sept 27 --> cleared waivers)
• Weise (Sept 27 --> cleared waivers)
• Peca (Sept 27 --> cleared waivers)

Sticking around a bit longer but likely to be cut:

• Lindgren (waivers)

Injured but heading to Laval when healthy:

• McCarron (waivers)
• Olofsson (waivers)
• Juulsen
• Teasdale <-- or back to the QMJHL

Tough Decisions (only room for 4)

• Suzuki
• Folin (waivers)
• Reilly (waivers)
• Hudon (waivers)
• Fleury
• Poehling

Forward Assumptions (Gallagher, Tatar, Danault, Domi, Drouin, Lekhonen, Kotkaniemi, Armia, Byron, Cousins, Thompson, Weal) = 12 + 2 of the above (I'm betting on Suzuki & Hudon)
Defense Assumptions (Weber, Mete, Petry, Chiarot, Kulak) = 5 +2 of the above (likely Reilly & Fleury)
Goalie Assumptions (Price, Kinkaid) = 2

If everyone is healthy than the decision becomes is it worth exposing an asset or is it better to send a prospect down to Laval for more ice time:

• Hudon vs Poehling
• Fleury vs Reilly/Folin

I am shocked that Karl Alzner cleared waivers. SHOCKED, I tell ya!

 

[The Great Weal]

Like you said above, I don't think it's worth losing an asset right now. I'd start Poehling and Fleury in the AHL, they'll get a call up if one of Reilly/Folin/Hudon plays bad hockey. Could happen faster than we think.

I mean I dont know how much of an asset guys like Hudon and Reilly are.

 

[HabsEstrie]

Wait did you just call Hudon an asset ? The 4 will be Poehling, Suzuki, Fleury, McCarron.