2019 Draft Discussion

[Herby]

As much as I liked him, Cammy was all about the NHLPA and his own accomplishments more than he was being part of a team. It was the right move for team chemistry and that team comradery was an essential part of two Cups wins.

PS. Had we drafted Karlsson instead you would love the trade.

But they didn't. They had Teubert targeted from the start, so they traded a 1st line scorer for a defenseman who had zero chance to ever play in the NHL. Had they traded him for a younger scorer, which the team desperately needed then no one cares, but they flushed an asset down the toilet for a complete bum.

As far as the other part of the post, I totally get it, if it wasn't a fit and didn't want a $$$ first player in the lockerroom. But if that was the case, why a year later did he trade for the definition of a $$$ first player? Just seems like that is an excuse for what turned out to be a terrible hockey trade.

 

[Legionnaire]

But they didn't. They had Teubert targeted from the start, so they traded a 1st line scorer for a defenseman who had zero chance to ever play in the NHL. Had they traded him for a younger scorer, which the team desperately needed then no one cares, but they flushed an asset down the toilet for a complete bum.

As far as the other part of the post, I totally get it, if it wasn't a fit and didn't want a $$$ first player in the lockerroom. But if that was the case, why a year later did he trade for the definition of a $$$ first player? Just seems like that is an excuse for what turned out to be a terrible hockey trade.

The first paragraph was obvious.

Which player was that? Carter?

And hey look, chill. Michigan is my college team for hockey and football sometimes. More often than not actually. You really don't have to defend everyone who went there because in truth, they don't represent you and you don't represent them. You just share the same Alma Mater.

 

[Herby]

The first paragraph was obvious.

Which player was that? Carter?

And hey look, chill. Michigan is my college team for hockey and football sometimes. More often than not actually. You really don't have to defend everyone who went there because in truth, they don't represent you and you don't represent them. You just share the same Alma Mater.

I am not even saying trading Cammalleri was wrong, he was at a tricky age with the Kings, a player in his stone prime on a bad team that was rebuilding who was looking to get paid. It would be like the Kings having Matt Duchene this season, it probably made sense financially to make the trade. But the player they targeted was just a disaster, but par for the course when it comes to drafting from those guys.

 

[Legionnaire]

I am not even saying trading Cammalleri was wrong, he was at a tricky age with the Kings, a player in his stone prime on a bad team that was rebuilding who was looking to get paid. It would be like the Kings having Matt Duchene this season, it probably made sense financially to make the trade. But the player they targeted was just a disaster, but par for the course when it comes to drafting from those guys.

I really want to like that post but those same guys were right and brought us two Cups.

There was a method to what may have been seen as foolish by we fans.

Myself included for sure.

 

[KingsFan7824]

When you look back at the drafting between 2006 and 2009, you can see why A) it took trading away so much future just to get out of the 1st round by 2012, and B) how amazing it is that they actually ended up winning by 2012. You don't normally get to whiff that much on a 4th overall pick, get nothing for that asset, and still manage to win a Cup. Even the Hawks ended up with Leddy in the Barker trade. Lucked out that Mitchell didn't get concussed again, and that Martinez turned into a solid 3rd pair D.

Quick usurped Bernier. Johnson and Hickey were here before Doughty was even a glint in Lombardi's eye. The draft and rebuilding in general can be a fickle mistress.

 

[Herby]

I really want to like that post but those same guys were right and brought us two Cups.

There was a method to what may have been seen as foolish by we fans.

Myself included for sure.

They made great trades, made great FA signings and built a great team around the players they inherited.

The drafting was a disaster though. Once the traded for and inherited players got old and had to be replaced there was just nothing.

 

[Legionnaire]

They made great trades, made great FA signings and built a great team around the players they inherited.

The drafting was a disaster though. Once the traded for and inherited players got old and had to be replaced there was just nothing.

Trading picks to win post Gabby, who was really a bargain of a trade, you're totally correct.

Actually, beyond JAD and maybe Mikey D we missed more than we hit it on our later round picks.

That was crucial. For example, if the Oil were able to find a gem like Kuch, we would be talking a whole different story today just like we would be about a telling a whole diffetent story when it comes to both franchises.

 

[Herby]

Trading picks to win post Gabby, who was really a bargain of a trade, you're totally correct.

Actually, beyond JAD and maybe Mikey D we missed more than we hit on our later round picks.

That was crucial. For example, if the Oil were able to find a gem like Kuch, we would be talking a whole different story today just like we would be about a whole diffetent story when it comes to both franchisees.

That is the frustrating thing, had the Kings been able to hit big on even 1 of the missed picks over the years I think they could have challenged beyond 2014. Kopitar, Doughty and Quick have largely been stars their entire time here, Kopitar was an MVP candidate last season, Doughty was a top 10 player in the NHL, Quick was a top 5 goalie, and that was as recent as last season.

If the Kings get just 1 of these things...who knows.

Giroux in 2006
Voracek in 2007
Karlsson in 2008
OEL in 2009
Tarasenko in 2010

All those players were realistic options for the Kings, and they missed in all those cases to take Trevor Lewis, Thomas Hickey, Colten Tuebert, Brayden Schenn and Derek Forbort. I'm sorry to include Schenn in that list as he clearly not like the others. But still, I think with a Tarasenko type player here for the Kings could have kept it rolling. A Doughty-Karlsson back-end with Kopitar as a 1C and Quick in goal would have been unfair. I truly think they could have had an insane decade had they drafted EK.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Can literally do that exercise for every team in the NHL. I really dislike that fallacy.

You can criticize the drafting (or more accurately lack of high picks) without the "but they missed on 'x' pick" because I bet you could turn any NHL team into a paper favorite in doing so.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

 

[KopitarFAN]

Caufield is fascinating, don't see him getting much consideration at the Kings Top pick (likely no lower than 7th), but it only takes one team to really like him and he'd be a Top 10 pick.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

^^^ true

Same with Kaliyev.

Really curious who picks him up.

 

[AzKing]

Caufield is fascinating, don't see him getting much consideration at the Kings Top pick (likely no lower than 7th), but it only takes one team to really like him and he'd be a Top 10 pick.

He will probably go in the Top 15 but nobody is going to risk a Top 10 pick on a guy who is 5’7 “Yet.”

 

[AzKing]

^^^ true

Same with Kaliyev.

Really curious who picks him up.

Kaliyev could be a surprise higher pick.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Why are we ignoring the Toffoli and Pearson picks? They were great.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Caufield is fascinating, don't see him getting much consideration at the Kings Top pick (likely no lower than 7th), but it only takes one team to really like him and he'd be a Top 10 pick.

^^^ true

Same with Kaliyev.

Really curious who picks him up.

Don't have time to look at who else has two first rounders right now but I feel like we have to have the highest two, and those two guys strike me as the kind of home runs people would swing for with a teens pick...could see blake trading up using one of our other picks as currency.

 

[AzKing]

Don't have time to look at who else has two first rounders right now but I feel like we have to have the highest two, and those two guys strike me as the kind of home runs people would swing for with a teens pick...could see blake trading up using one of our other picks as currency.

I wouldn’t package our 2nd rounder since it’s basically a low 1st in theory but maybe a 4th to move up 5-6 spots to grab a guy they want.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I wouldn’t trade our 2nd rounder since it’s basically a low 1st in theory but maybe a 4th to move up 5-6 spots to grab a guy they want.

Right, definitely not advocating moving a 2nd. I meant a small push assuming the TO pick isn't late 20s. But i'm also rooting for a TO collapse so

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Wow...Button has Dach at 16 now.

 

[Herby]

Can literally do that exercise for every team in the NHL. I really dislike that fallacy.

You can criticize the drafting (or more accurately lack of high picks) without the "but they missed on 'x' pick" because I bet you could turn any NHL team into a paper favorite in doing so.

Sure you can cherry pick a draft or two, but this is a decade long problem for the Kings.

We are talking about a team that over a decade of drafting produced Tyler Toffoli as the crown jewel, sorry but that is a complete and utter disaster. Try finding a team that has done worse, you won't.

You win in this league by drafting impact players and that is how teams should be judged on their drafting, not by how many Nick Shore's and Andy Andreoff's they drafted. And no one has been worse at finding impact players than the Kings. And that is why the Kings are in the spot their in.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Sure you can cherry pick a draft or two, but this is a decade long problem for the Kings.

We are talking about a team that over a decade of drafting produced Tyler Toffoli as the crown jewel, sorry but that is a complete and utter disaster. Try finding a team that has done worse, you won't.

You win in this league by drafting impact players and that is how teams should be judged on their drafting, not by how many Nick Shore's and Andy Andreoff's they drafted. And no one has been worse at finding impact players than the Kings. And that is why the Kings are in the spot their in.

Grass is always greener case in point, thanks.

I didn't even have to get past "A".

Phoenix Coyotes Draft History at hockeydb.com

Would you like me to pull more?

Edit: OEL is an impact player, sure. So is Keller, imo, though still growing. Tell me where they were picked?

here, I'll give you a bonus one off the top of my head because I remember a Devils fan on the main board going crazy about their forward drafting in particular.

New Jersey Devils Draft History at hockeydb.com

 

[Herby]

Grass is always greener case in point, thanks.

I didn't even have to get past "A".

Phoenix Coyotes Draft History at hockeydb.com

Would you like me to pull more?

Wow, epic mic-drop post.

Arizona hasn't drafted a player better than Tyler Toffoli this decade?

Clayton Keller & Jake Chychrun? Those are 2 guys from the same draft better than anyone the Kings have drafted this decade.
Max Domi?
Dylan Strome?

I mean you are right, the Coyotes drafting has been horrific, and that is why they have been a horrific team on the ice. I don't get why you can admit that about them but seem to defend the Kings drafting at all goes. But please, keep going, find all these teams the Kings have drafted better than this decade.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Wow, epic mic-drop post.

Arizona hasn't drafted a player better than Tyler Toffoli this decade?

Clayton Keller & Jake Chychrun? Those are 2 guys from the same draft better than anyone the Kings have drafted this decade.
Max Domi?
Dylan Strome?

I mean you are right, the Coyotes drafting has been horrific, and that is why they have been a horrific team on the ice. I don't get why you can admit that about them but seem to defend the Kings drafting at all goes. But please, keep going, find all these teams the Kings have drafted better than this decade.

It's not defending it as much as contextualizing it. Suggesting that no one has been worse over the decade lacks perspective, especially when other teams have done less with more. How is Domi doing on the Yotes, by the way? That would mean you'd have to count Cernak playing well for TBL, Dowd for WSH, Schenn for STL, Miller for VGK among others then, right? And yes, Keller and Chychrun are great players that have something in common--both were drafted more than 15 positions better in the first round than the Kings have had since 2010. Why is that hard to acknowledge?

The prevailing thought for some reason is that they can do no right when really it's more to do with a lack of picks than anything. I'm under no delusion that we don't need to 'draft better,' but I'm also not so blinded by whatever the reason is that I'm going to hyperbolically call it the worst in the league, either.

 

[Brodeur]

Don't have time to look at who else has two first rounders right now but I feel like we have to have the highest two, and those two guys strike me as the kind of home runs people would swing for with a teens pick...could see blake trading up using one of our other picks as currency.

Teams with multiple firsts:
- Colorado (+Ottawa)
- Buffalo (+St. Louis, although conditional from the Montour trade. Ducks get the lesser of St. Louis/San Jose picks.)
- Anaheim (+San Jose)
- NY Rangers (+Tampa, conditional if Lightning win Cup, otherwise it's a 2nd rounder. +Dallas, conditional if Stars make Conference Finals, otherwise 2nd rounder)

New Jersey Devils Draft History at hockeydb.com

It's amazing how good the Devils scouts were in the 90s and then a lot of the same scouts were so horrid in the 00s/early 10s. We finally changed our scouts in 2016, and the emphasis went away from size/grit to skating. Still too early to declare much from the recent drafts, but it is at least a little refreshing to take smaller skill guys with later picks rather than guys with 4th line upside.

 

[Herby]

Fine, here you go.

Every top 6 forward, top 4 d-man or starting goalie drafted by each NHL team over this decade. I will be conservative for the most part

Anaheim - Fowler, Rakell, Gibson, Karlsson, Lindholm, Theodore, Montour
Arizona - Keller, Chychrun, Domi, Strome
Boston - Seguin, Hamilton, Pastrnak, DeBrusk, McAvoy, (Debate: Donato)
Buffalo - Ristolainen, Eichel, Dahlin, Reinart (Debate: Compher)
Calgary- Ferland, Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk
Carolina - Skinner, Faulk, Anderssen, Slavvin, Lindholm, Aho, Hanifin, Svechnikov
Chicago - Hayes, Saad, Shaw, Terovainen, Schmaltz, DeBrincat
Colorado- Landeskog, MacKinnon, Butcher, Rantanen
Columbus - Johansen, Jenner, Anderson, Werenski, Dubois
Dallas- Klingberg, Heiskinen
Detroit- Mrezak, AA, Mantha, Larkin
Edmonton - Hall, RNH, Klefbom, Gustafsson, Nurse, Draisitl, McDavid
Florida - Huberdeau, Trochek, Barkov, Ekblad (Debate: Hyman, Bjugstad, Donskoi)
Los Angeles - Toffoli, Miller (Debate: Pearson)
Minnesota- Granlund, Zucker, Dumba, Tuch
Montreal - Gallagher, Galchenyuk, Sergachev
Nashville - Jones, Arvidsson, Girard, Fiala
NJ- Larsson, Severson, Hirschier (Debate: Bratt)
NYI- Nino, Nelson, Pulock, Barzal,
NYR- Miller, Skej, Buchnevich,
Ottawa- Stone, Zibanijad, Ceci, Tkachuk (Debate: White)
Philly - Couturier, Ghostisbere, Konechy, Provorov
Pittsburgh - Maata, Murray, Guentzel, Kapanen
SJ - Coyle, Hertl, LaBanc, Meier (Debate: Tierney)
St. Louis - Tarasenko, Schwartz, Parayko, Dunn (Thomas will be but want to be conservative in this list)
Tampa - Gudas, Kucherov, Palat, Vasilevsky, Drouin, Point (Debate: DeAngelo)
Toronto - Reilly, Nylander, Marner, Matthews
Vancouver - Horvat, Boeser, Peterssen
Washington- Kuznetsov, Forsberg, Vrana
Winnipeg - Schiefele, Trouba, Morrissey, Hellebucyk, Ehlers, Connor, Laine

Look, I have been happy with Blake's picks since he took over, and I think if Vilardi is able to regain his health the Kings could easily have a comparable run of picks in 17-18-19 that could be a poor man's version of what Toronto did in 14-15-16 (Nylander, Marner, Matthews) but I just have no idea how you can in any way defend the Kings drafting for the last decade. Looking at the above list it's either the Kings, Devils, Dallas or the Rangers. And since Dallas has what looks like 2 star defenseman in that time it's really probably either the Kings, Devils or Rangers for the worst drafting team in the NHL the last decade.