Rumor: 2019-2020 Trade Rumours and Free Agent Discussion Part 3

[cgf]

So... firsts in the 20s don't bring in A level prospects or even fringe A level guys. They are solid B level prospects. Our 1sts have that sort of value. The pool was top 5 with Makar and Byram... take those two out and I think you have a hard time arguing it is a top 10, maybe even top 15 pool. You'd have Newhook as the top guy with Timmins, Kaut, and Bowers following him. Not a single A level prospect in the batch. Newhook is fringe the rest are B (Timmins can claw his way up).

Now that package is a late 1st + A/B level prospect + B level prospect + reclamation project. Take a team like Florida... you get a better 1st, then they can throw in at least two prospects at the Newhook level (choose two of Denisenko, Tippet, Knight) and they can throw in Borgstrom as their 'reclamation.' Plenty of teams have A or A/B level prospect to toss into a deal and have better picks available.

So what you're saying is...we need to convince the Panthros to trade us Deni & Tippett for Newhook & Kaut?

 

[henchman21]

Please fill me in on the type of futures package these teams can put together that the Avs can’t top.

Dallas has Harley, Dellandrea, and picks
Stl has Kyrou, Kostin, and more picks than the Avs (worse value on 1sts)
Nashville has Tomasino, Tolvanen and more picks than the Avs (similar value on 1sts)

 

[henchman21]

So what you're saying is...we need to convince the Panthros to trade us Deni & Tippett for Newhook & Kaut?

I'd take Deni alone for Newhook and Kaut...

 

[cgf]

Please fill me in on the type of futures package these teams can put together that the Avs can’t top.

Was just riffing on the 'every former av or big name ends up in the central' meme...not seriously suggesting that those specific teams a) have a legit A-prospect to beat our best non-Byram offer, or b) would be willing to give said legit A-prospect up.

Though, as Henchy mentioned, the Stars could be our huckleberry here if they wanted to...though I dunno if they feel like they need a big addition or a couple of supporting-cast upgrades, to take off.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Dallas has Harley, Dellandrea, and picks
Stl has Kyrou, Kostin, and more picks than the Avs (worse value on 1sts)
Nashville has Tomasino, Tolvanen and more picks than the Avs (similar value on 1sts)

Yeah Harley can’t be topped. I never even considered him since I’d peg him as untouchable as Byram. If they are willing to trade Harley, Hall should be theirs.

As for St. Louis and Nashville, we can top this episode offers quite easily. Especially when you consider the salary maneuvering those teams would have to do. Nashville has Josi’e contract kicking in next year. Turris would have to be part of it which brings value way down. St. Louis has Petro, Faulk and Schenn all with hefty increases next year (unless they move on from their captain). Kreider as a rental is much more likely there.

 

[cgf]

I'd take Deni alone for Newhook and Kaut...

Touche lol. He wouldn't solve anything for us this year -- or next year, probably -- but in that timeline; Bednar would absolutely adore him whenever he was ready for the NHL. That speed & commitment on the forecheck + those hands *drools*...I'm still convinced he's a better prospect than Kravtsov was & he's the russian forward who should've been a top 10 pick that year.

 

[Bubba Thudd]

So... firsts in the 20s don't bring in A level prospects or even fringe A level guys. They are solid B level prospects. Our 1sts have that sort of value. The pool was top 5 with Makar and Byram... take those two out and I think you have a hard time arguing it is a top 10, maybe even top 15 pool. You'd have Newhook as the top guy with Timmins, Kaut, and Bowers following him. Not a single A level prospect in the batch. Newhook is fringe the rest are B (Timmins can claw his way up).

Now that package is a late 1st + A/B level prospect + B level prospect + reclamation project. Take a team like Florida... you get a better 1st, then they can throw in at least two prospects at the Newhook level (choose two of Denisenko, Tippet, Knight) and they can throw in Borgstrom as their 'reclamation.' Plenty of teams have A or A/B level prospect to toss into a deal and have better picks available.

Does Hall have any kind of Movement Clause?

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Was just riffing on the 'every former av or big name ends up in the central' meme...not seriously suggesting that those specific teams a) have a legit A-prospect to beat our best non-Byram offer, or b) would be willing to give said legit A-prospect up.

Though, as Henchy mentioned, the Stars could be our huckleberry here if they wanted to...though I dunno if they feel like they need a big addition or a couple of supporting-cast upgrades, to take off.

Yeah if the Stars are willing to trade Harley we should just sit back, not overpay and enjoy the fact that he won’t be on the Stars blue line for the next decade.

 

[Balthazar]

There's 0 chance that we trade the last 4OA pick for a rental. If that's what it takes then just too bad. Not like Hall is a great idea to begin with.

 

[Balthazar]

Remember when Ottawa couldn't get a young blue chip dman for rental EK? I remember.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Hopefully, we don't give up a lot for someone that is not even here next season. If you need to make a move then fix the issue at least for a couple of seasons.

 

[henchman21]

Yeah Harley can’t be topped. I never even considered him since I’d peg him as untouchable as Byram. If they are willing to trade Harley, Hall should be theirs.

As for St. Louis and Nashville, we can top this episode offers quite easily. Especially when you consider the salary maneuvering those teams would have to do. Nashville has Josi’e contract kicking in next year. Turris would have to be part of it which brings value way down. St. Louis has Petro, Faulk and Schenn all with hefty increases next year (unless they move on from their captain). Kreider as a rental is much more likely there.

Dallas easily has the best opportunity to bid, not only for Hall, but anybody. Their top prospect is in an area of strength in their core.

St Louis is interesting to me, not that they'd have a hugely better or worse package than the Avs... but out of the Kyrou, Tomasino, and Newhook group, Kyrou is clearly the best prospect out of the three. When you get to the tier below that fit means as much as anything else IMO.

Nashville's group would be totally dependent on how they view Tolvanen. There is a player with a clear talent and some real fit issues with an organization and he has an attitude issue (which New Jersey seems unafraid to deal with attitude issues). Think the Avs' package is better there, but people are sleeping on Tomasino.

Does Hall have any kind of Movement Clause?

None are in his contract.

 

[AvsCOL]

See Seth Jones trade...

 

[Balthazar]

See Seth Jones trade...

For what? They are nothing alike.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

See Seth Jones trade...

Huh? That was a total hockey trade using two young future stars who were both expendable because of the depth of those positions on their respective teams.

This is a current star player who needs a new contract in a few months.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Goalie prospects don’t have crazy value by any means but I could see Annunen of extreme value for NJ. If Sakic was considering trading him I’d bet he’d want to wait until after the WJC where a hype train would hopefully begin.

 

[cgf]

Goalie prospects don’t have crazy value by any means but I could see Annunen of extreme value for NJ. If Sakic was considering trading him I’d bet he’d want to wait until after the WJC where a hype train would hopefully begin.

Annunen could be a desireable piece, but he's still more of a B-prospect than an A...much less a bluechipper.

We actually have a good bit of second-tier ammo; which is why I think our best solution will be using multiple second-tier targets to bolster us where we need it, rather than banking on 1 big buy...unless that big buy was an elite blueliner in his prime...because Byram is our only really top-caliber ammo, and finding a deal worth moving him in would be really tricksy.

 

[arun]

Goalie prospects don’t have crazy value by any means but I could see Annunen of extreme value for NJ. If Sakic was considering trading him I’d bet he’d want to wait until after the WJC where a hype train would hopefully begin.

Wouldnt Luukkonen from Buf be their starter?

 

[Bubba Thudd]

Thinking a couple 2nd liners might be better (and cheaper) than a top line star.

 

[shadow1]

I don’t feel like Colorado needs to get into a bidding war for Hall. If there’s a deal that works, or money that works in the off-season, so be it.

But getting Hall when the Avs already have a great top line feels a bit Karlsson to the Sharks-esque to me.

Sounds great at first, but next thing you know you’re playing Tim Heed every night because you have no cap space left.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Annunen could be a desireable piece, but he's still more of a B-prospect than an A...much less a bluechipper.

We actually have a good bit of second-tier ammo; which is why I think our best solution will be using multiple second-tier targets to bolster us where we need it, rather than banking on 1 big buy...unless that big buy was an elite blueliner in his prime...because Byram is our only really top-caliber ammo, and finding a deal worth moving him in would be really tricksy.

Oh yeah he’d definitely be a secondary piece. But one they’d desire.

Wouldnt Luukkonen from Buf be their starter?

I would think Annunen is the better goalie.

 

[arun]

I would think Annunen is the better goalie.

I dont know much about either one of them but I’ve heard some hype on Luuks. Annunen being better would be awesome. I’ll call him Arunen then lol

 

[henchman21]

We actually have a good bit of second-tier ammo; which is why I think our best solution will be using multiple second-tier targets to bolster us where we need it, rather than banking on 1 big buy...unless that big buy was an elite blueliner in his prime...because Byram is our only really top-caliber ammo, and finding a deal worth moving him in would be really tricksy.

This is exactly how I feel... Avs have plenty of ammo to pull of the 2nd tier sorts of deals, but not a ton of the top tier sorts and that simply stems from Makar and Byram being no-gos.

 

[UncleRisto]

Wouldnt Luukkonen from Buf be their starter?

Luukkonen is twenty.

 

[cgf]

This is exactly how I feel... Avs have plenty of ammo to pull of the 2nd tier sorts of deals, but not a ton of the top tier sorts and that simply stems from Makar and Byram being no-gos.

So once we're done swapping Newhook for Deni:

Get all 3 of Zucker, Savard & Pageau!