Rumor: 2019-2020 Trade Rumours and Free Agent Discussion Part 3

[Cousin Eddie]

You have to look at New Jersey's needs too though. They don't need a center, they don't need depth forwards or defensemen... they need goaltending (which would be a waste on this deal) and they need a high end defensemen. With Hall, the Avs' 1st winds up in the 20s at least. So that pick isn't likely to net what they need. So they will want a top defensemen prospect out of the Avs. Timmins could play great in the AHL and improve his stock in that sort of trade, but that's not going to make the deal today. So, looking at the pool, you're left with Byram. I know it sounds steep, but when I look at what they Avs can offer and what New Jersey needs, I just don't see anything else they'd pull the trigger on when there is competition that can offer up better picks, and more projectable prospects to their pool.

Every team looking to acquire Hall will have their 1st in the 20’s. That’s not just the Avs. There aren’t many other teams that can even afford him. Just because we have Byram doesn’t mean he has to be the piece given up. Montreal are going to be in on Hall but I promise you Caufield won’t be on the table for him.

Duchene didn’t return a prospect like Byram. (Although he was traded directly for him in the previous trade lol) Stone didn’t. Karlsson didn’t. Kane didn’t. These prospects just aren’t traded.

 

[Bubba Thudd]

Really? Someone would give up a top line Wing for a rental?
If they want that rental, they consider themselves contenders, and would want to keep their top line Wing.
No?

 

[henchman21]

Every team looking to acquire Hall will have their 1st in the 20’s. That’s not just the Avs. There aren’t many other teams that can even afford him. Just because we have Byram doesn’t mean he has to be the piece given up. Montreal are going to be in on Hall but I promise you Caufield won’t be on the table for him.

Duchene didn’t return a prospect like Byram. (Although he was traded directly for him in the previous trade lol) Stone didn’t. Karlsson didn’t. Kane didn’t. These prospects just aren’t traded.

You’re missing my point... the other Avs pieces to make the deal aren’t good enough to beat out what other teams can put out there.

 

[Ararana]

I agree that no team is likely to put up a better defensemen, but there certainly are teams that will be willing to give up top line wing prospects and better picks. So to beat them out, you have to go to Byram...

I completely agree with you. Byram is the big ticket that could make our offer unbeatable, without him teams would somewhat easily beat us out. I still wouldn't even entertain it though.

Put together your best Byram-less package and through it at the wall and hope it sticks.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

You’re missing my point... the other Avs pieces to make the deal aren’t good enough to beat out what other teams can put out there.

If Hall is going to cost Byram, then don't go after Hall. Can he be a gamebreaker? Yes, definitely. Can he stay healthy, nope. He has had one truly outstanding season, and then a bunch of good but not spectacular seasons.

 

[henchman21]

I completely agree with you. Byram is the big ticket that could make our offer unbeatable, without him teams would somewhat easily beat us out. I still wouldn't even entertain it though.

Put together your best Byram-less package and through it at the wall and hope it sticks.

And I agree with this completely. Not worth Byram to get Hall.

 

[Ararana]

And I agree with this completely. Not worth Byram to get Hall.

And just pray to sweet baby jesus he doesn't end up in the Central. *eyes St. Louis

 

[Perratrooper]

Pageau isn't tweener middle 6 guy as much as an elite #3C. He can spot up in pinches, but for more than a stretch, he's not a guy you want on your 2nd line. What he'd provide the Avs with is a MacK-Kadri-JGP-PEB rotation down the middle that would arguably be the strongest group in the NHL. Each one of those players is an 'elite' level for their role, but each one of Kadri-JGP-PEB are a bit out matched line one line up. Lately PEB has been the #2 or #3 on usage even if he's listed as a #4. Having JGP would allow Bednar to have 3 high end defensive centers who could match up with any line and be okay... allowing a ton of flexibility in their deployment.

IMO with those three down the middle with MacK, I don't think there is a team in the West that could handle that rotation in a 7 game series. Too deep, strong defensively, and varied in attack styles to gameplan around.

I wouldn't mind Tierney either, provdes a little more size that Pageau, has been better on the draws this year, is a year younger and hasn't been as good to start the season so in theory should be similar in price.

I personally would love Colorado to add one more top 6 forward, a better 3C and another second pair dman. If we could target Tiereny/Pageau 3C, Savard/Petry top 4 dman and someone like Hall as a rental we'd definitely improve our odds of winning

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I dont see a single team beating an offer of Newhook + 1st if we offered that.
Take personal opinion of the prospect out and Newhook is a very recent 16th overall pick who was pretty much unanimously a Top half 1st rounder last year that some teams likely had in the Top 10.

He would be a coveted piece for a retooling or rebuilding team and a piece very few other contenders could or even would match.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

You’re missing my point... the other Avs pieces to make the deal aren’t good enough to beat out what other teams can put out there.

How? We have every first pick for eternity and a top 5 prospect pool. Byram isn’t our only prospect.

Who in the hell will top a package of Jost + Newhook + Timmins and a 1st? It likely wouldn’t even take that much but I’m just using it as a point to prove that we have the assets.

 

[Ararana]

I dont see a single team beating an offer of Newhook + 1st if we offered that.
Take personal opinion of the prospect out and Newhook is a very recent 16th overall pick who was pretty much unanimously a Top half 1st rounder last year that some teams likely had in the Top 10.

He would be a coveted piece for a retooling or rebuilding team and a piece very few other contenders could or even would match.

They're going to want a top 4 defenseman or soon to be top 4 defenseman, preferably a lefty.

I'd offer them Zadorov + 2020 protected 1st + Newhook + 2021 second but only if Hall comes with an hand shake agreement. It's a bit of a quantity offer but Zadorov IMO is a perfectly fine #4. Package that with two high picks and a strong prospect I think that's a strong offer.

I'm not sure I'd want Hall badly enough to add to that. Maybe swap Timmins for Zadorov if they were okay with his injury.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I’m coming around to the idea of a Hall trade. The only thing I wouldn’t do is trade Byram. If that’s the ask, I walk away.

Hall would make a huge difference on this team. His style of play fits perfectly into what the Avs want to do. And when healthy, the Avs offence would be extremely deep and difficult to stop.

I still feel like we’re a year away, but the Blues won last year, and you never know when you can catch fire.

The question is, how much do you pay for a rental? 9-10 million on a long term contract probably is going to be tough for the Avs to handle.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Zadorov
Annunen
Newhook
1st

 

[TruePowerSlave]

I'd figure Byram would have to be a part of any Hall deal. For Bowers/Timmins/Kaut to have any sort of pull in a deal, New Jersey would really have to love them. Newhook will have to start looking much better as the season goes on to maintain, but even if he does, if they project him as a center it certainly isn't a position of need. If they project him as a wing, they really need a 1st line sort of projection guy more than a 2nd line. On defense they are pretty thin in the pool... basically Smith as a middle pairing guy, Misyul as a bottom 4 with maybe a touch more upside, and Walsh as a solid depth prospect who could break out. Vukojevic is a risky projection, but has tools. There isn't a high end defensive prospect there. Figure any Hall deal starts with getting them that guy, even if they have to take less pieces... ala Stone last year.

Byram for a pending UFA is total madness, even if managed to re-sign him.

Nobody is offering anything that valuable.

 

[Pokecheque]

Everyone knows I tend to stick to the more conservative side of things when it comes to upgrading the on-ice talent. But Newhook or Byram packaged with a 1st is probably what it's gonna take to get one of the big names.

Again, I think you can get good value if you aim a little lower.

And FTR, every single player that's available has question marks. If they didn't, they wouldn't be available.

 

[cgf]

Hall is obviously a prime candidate...but who else would fall into big game hunting?

Getting all 3 of Zucker, Savard & Pageau!

 

[henchman21]

How? We have every first pick for eternity and a top 5 prospect pool. Byram isn’t our only prospect.

Who in the hell will top a package of Jost + Newhook + Timmins and a 1st? It likely wouldn’t even take that much but I’m just using it as a point to prove that we have the assets.

So... firsts in the 20s don't bring in A level prospects or even fringe A level guys. They are solid B level prospects. Our 1sts have that sort of value. The pool was top 5 with Makar and Byram... take those two out and I think you have a hard time arguing it is a top 10, maybe even top 15 pool. You'd have Newhook as the top guy with Timmins, Kaut, and Bowers following him. Not a single A level prospect in the batch. Newhook is fringe the rest are B (Timmins can claw his way up).

Now that package is a late 1st + A/B level prospect + B level prospect + reclamation project. Take a team like Florida... you get a better 1st, then they can throw in at least two prospects at the Newhook level (choose two of Denisenko, Tippet, Knight) and they can throw in Borgstrom as their 'reclamation.' Plenty of teams have A or A/B level prospect to toss into a deal and have better picks available.

 

[S E P H]

I like how he put these two back to back.

I would take Byfuglien, fight me.

 

[henchman21]

Byram for a pending UFA is total madness, even if managed to re-sign him.

Nobody is offering anything that valuable.

But teams will offer up more value than Newhook + 1st.

 

[cgf]

How? We have every first pick for eternity and a top 5 prospect pool. Byram isn’t our only prospect.

Who in the hell will top a package of Jost + Newhook + Timmins and a 1st? It likely wouldn’t even take that much but I’m just using it as a point to prove that we have the assets.

Nashville, STL or Dallas, probably...

The answer to this question depends on whether anyone offers up a higher level prospect alongside their 1st...not necessarily a bluechipper like Byram, but a strong A-prospect+1st can absolutely beat out 3 B-prospects+1st...and what the Devils are thinking. Maybe Shero wants to go for bulk, the way Joe did with Dutchy, but that's uncommon & Girard was a better prospect than anyone we've got to offer now...even if the Sens hadn't imploded post-trade to turn the Byram pick into the centerpiece of the deal.

 

[arun]

I dont want hall unless we pull off a larsson-like trade, so let’s say EJ or Cole + 3rd lol

 

[Cousin Eddie]

So... firsts in the 20s don't bring in A level prospects or even fringe A level guys. They are solid B level prospects. Our 1sts have that sort of value. The pool was top 5 with Makar and Byram... take those two out and I think you have a hard time arguing it is a top 10, maybe even top 15 pool. You'd have Newhook as the top guy with Timmins, Kaut, and Bowers following him. Not a single A level prospect in the batch. Newhook is fringe the rest are B (Timmins can claw his way up).

Now that package is a late 1st + A/B level prospect + B level prospect + reclamation project. Take a team like Florida... you get a better 1st, then they can throw in at least two prospects at the Newhook level (choose two of Denisenko, Tippet, Knight) and they can throw in Borgstrom as their 'reclamation.' Plenty of teams have A or A/B level prospect to toss into a deal and have better picks available.

Why bring up Florida? They’re a team that is rumored to be trying to trade offense for defense. They aren’t trading the farm for Hall.

Tell me some realistic trades that teams would put together for Hall and I bet I can almost certainly put a better package together from Colorado.
Unless somebody is willing to trade a Turcotte/Bouchard/Dobson level prospect there’s no contender out there who can touch Colorado’s tradable assets.

Islanders would be my biggest fear because of Dobson but I really don’t see them trading him.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

But teams will offer up more value than Newhook + 1st.

It remains to be seen if anyone will top that offer, even if they did that is no excuse for trading a top 4 pick for a pending UFA.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Nashville, STL or Dallas, probably...

Please fill me in on the type of futures package these teams can put together that the Avs can’t top.

 

[henchman21]

Nashville, STL or Dallas, probably...

Dallas is an interesting one... they could offer up Harley with relative ease with their current D group and have excess elsewhere. Plus they have strong incentive to win now and have a history of paying top dollar.