Rumor: 2019-2020 Trade Rumours and Free Agent Discussion Part 2

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Avs44

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May 16, 2011
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Spending an average of 6.6 on your second line is probably disingenuous. Very few teams ice 3 top end guys. You usually can find a complimentary guy. 6.6 is what you pay your top end second liners.

So lets say Mack comes on at 12. Newhook comes in on his elc and takes a top six spot and saves another six. Theres 8 right there. Maybe landeskog takes a team friendly deal preferring term and safety over cap hit.

I guess what I’m saying is that we still need to be smart with both contracts and assets and to remain flexible. Now I get that we can win a cup but you still have to be picky with your assets and which players you add.

Unless Mack falls off really hard, there is zero chance he is signing for 12 million in four years time. The guy is playing at a bargain bin rate right now -- you think he'll sign for less than McDavid when the cap has presumably gone up another 10+ million and he's facing UFA? You have to add 2-3 million to that number. We don't know when Newhook will turn pro, but if it's next year then his ELC will in fact be expiring in 3 years at the same time as MacK's deal (this is assuming he turns into a top six forward).

The Avs might have a window in 4+ years from now. But it's kind of hard to predict (it really comes down to how well they draft). But they do have a window right now, a bird in hand per se. So I say, instead of limiting the opportunities in this window, go for it hard right now. If you come out of it with a cup it's all worth it.
 

avsfan09

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Dec 17, 2010
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Mack is making more than 12 unless he regresses back to his 50-60pt self.
We’ll see. I don’t see it being 14 myself but things change obviously. FTR he’s likely worth that but I don’t think he asks for that much unless we’ve won cups or the cap goes up a ton. I just think he takes a team friendly deal like Rantanen.
 

avsfan09

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Dec 17, 2010
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Unless Mack falls off really hard, there is zero chance he is signing for 12 million in four years time. The guy is playing at a bargain bin rate right now -- you think he'll sign for less than McDavid when the cap has presumably gone up another 10+ million and he's facing UFA? You have to add 2-3 million to that number. We don't know when Newhook will turn pro, but if it's next year then his ELC will in fact be expiring in 3 years at the same time as MacK's deal (this is assuming he turns into a top six forward).

The Avs might have a window in 4+ years from now. But it's kind of hard to predict (it really comes down to how well they draft). But they do have a window right now, a bird in hand per se. So I say, instead of limiting the opportunities in this window, go for it hard right now. If you come out of it with a cup it's all worth it.
My argument is why not balance? Don’t get reckless but absolutely look for that final piece. But dont make desperate trades pr overpayments. Overpayments for the right players are fine if they use futures but be paticular about the player we are investing in.
 

Gatorbait19

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Apr 2, 2019
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Four years is a long, long time away so it is a bit silly to be doing this... but I'll do it anyway since I have nothing else to do for the next hour until the game starts. So lets do a little deep dive on our potential cap situation.


First of all, lets assume the cap continues rising at the same approximate pace that it has the last 4 years, for the next 4 years as well. So 4 years ago we had a cap of 71.4M. Which means an increase of 10.1M in 4 years, or 14.1% over 4 years. So, if we use that same number to forecast the cap 4 years from now, we're looking at a cap of ~93M in 4 years from now.

Now we'll get into the contracts. Unless Macks game takes a significant nose dive in the next 4 years, his next deal is going to be the one that "resets" the market again for Free Agents like McDavids deal reset things when he signed for 12.5M. So McDavids 12.5M deal started last season when the cap was 79.5M, meaning his 12.5M was 15.7% of his teams cap. For the sake of this analysis we're going to say Mack signs his new deal for a similar 15% of the cap in 4 years from now. That means a cap hit of 14M for Mack on his next deal.

So, when the 2023-24 season starts, we will have 14M spent on Mackinnon, 9.25M spent on Rantanen, and 5M spent on Girard. Those are the 3 players signed beyond that season as of right now. Meaning 30% of our cap space is used.

Now we start filling in the roster with other important guys who will be here. Landeskog tops that list. His next deal is very likely to be in the same neighborhood of what Mikko just signed. For simplicity sake we'll say he signs for 9M, which I think might even be on the low side 2 years from now but we'll use that number anyway. Then you have Makar. It's hard to estimate his deal without seeing what Dahlin signs for first as Dahlin will very likely reset things for Dmen again as well. But, lets say Dahlin signs for ~9M.... Makar probably comes in for 8M. After that, you have Byram. He'll be an RFA in 2023/24(Assuming he's a full time NHLer next season which I think is pretty fair to assume), and again unless things go poorly with him, he should be in the same ballpark as Makar, maybe slightly less since he likely doesn't have the offensive numbers Makar will have. So lets say 7M for Byram. Next on the list would be Grubauer. Currently making 3.333M. If he proves to be a legit starting goalie for us(And he's close to being established in this regard already), then you're looking at ~6M for him also.

So... under this future outlook we are looking like a potential 2023-24 roster something along the lines of this so far:


Mack - 14M
Mikko - 9.25M
Landy - 9M
Makar - 8M
Byram - 7M
Grubauer - 6M
Girard - 5M


7/23 roster players, taking up 58.25M of our cap space. 63% roughly. Meaning we would have just under 35M left to sign our entire 2nd line, bottom 6, #4 Dman, bottom pairing Defense, 13th forward and 7th Dman, and backup goalie.

If we want to still be a contending team. Our 2nd line is going to have to take up 20M of that 35M remaining space along. An average of ~6.66M per player on that line means you're getting legit 50-60 point 2nd line guys. That then leaves 15M for your depth options. Right now, on our bottom 6, bottom 3 Dmen, extra skaters and backup goalie the Avs are spending almost 25M. And that includes having 4 guys on ELCs or ELC level money in that group.

Long story short of it is if the Avs want to have a window last more than 4 years. They simply have to start hitting on later picks in the draft. Without having quality players on ELCs in 4 years from now, this team has no chance of remaining a contender. And given our draft record over the last decade in those late rounds, the outlook is not good.

So basically one of two things needs to happen. Either the Avs management needs to recognize our best chance to win a cup(And probably our only chance) is in the next 4 years before Macks, Gabes, Grubs, Cales, etc's new deals kick in.... And thus we need to get very aggressive about using what cap space and assets we do have right now to make this team as good as it can possibly be over the next 4 years. OR, our drafting has to do a complete 180 in the next 4 years and when Macks new deal kicks in we need to have a Legit Top 4D on his ELC still, a legit Top 6 forward on his ELC still, and multiple quality bottom 6 guys making very little money.


I certainly know what should be done.

Excellent analysis. I see 2 possible flaws though. First and foremost, I think that with at least one of Cale/Byram (likely Byram) takes a bridge deal. That’s what you have to do with the top teams are forced to do like Tampa with Point.

Next, we’ve seen time and again, we have a specific cap/number in mind and won’t go bananas. Ultimately, while we’ll get deals done with MacK and Landy, I think theyll be 8yr deals for $12.5-13m and $8.5m, respectively. Sure they could get more, but they’ll know they can win here and also we can offer the 8th year on their deals.

One wildcard though is the new cba which could completely change everything in a litany or ways.
 

Pierce Hawthorne

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Excellent analysis. I see 2 possible flaws though. First and foremost, I think that with at least one of Cale/Byram (likely Byram) takes a bridge deal. That’s what you have to do with the top teams are forced to do like Tampa with Point.

Next, we’ve seen time and again, we have a specific cap/number in mind and won’t go bananas. Ultimately, while we’ll get deals done with MacK and Landy, I think theyll be 8yr deals for $12.5-13m and $8.5m, respectively. Sure they could get more, but they’ll know they can win here and also we can offer the 8th year on their deals.

One wildcard though is the new cba which could completely change everything in a litany or ways.

I dont think they'll bridge Makar. I think they'll lock him up long term the first chance they get. I could see a bridge for Byram though since I dont expect Byrams offensive numbers to be particularly high and so he might also want to bet on himself to improve those for a bigger pay day later.

But even still, 4 years from now, a 3 year bridge Deal for a good young Dman stands a very good chance to be 7M. Especially when you look at the bridges signed this past summer by Dmen.


Another thing I didn't even bring up in that analysis though as that analysis was supposed to be strictly numbers based... But in 3-4 years from now, Landeskog is very likely on a slow decline. Kadri if he's our 2C still is definitely on a decline, and even Mack is probably no longer a 100 point guy and more along the lines of 85-90.

So on top of the cap situation tightening up a tonne in 4 years from now... We're also likely going to simply be a weaker team as our superstars slowly exit their prime years.
 

Bubba Thudd

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Jul 19, 2005
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We’ll see. I don’t see it being 14 myself but things change obviously. FTR he’s likely worth that but I don’t think he asks for that much unless we’ve won cups or the cap goes up a ton. I just think he takes a team friendly deal like Rantanen.

I hope you're right.
 

Iceberg

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May 4, 2002
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Landeskog next deal will be a tricky one, but as long as we don't give him a full NMC we should be fine.
 

Cousin Eddie

You Serious Clark?
Nov 3, 2006
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I just want to show a little appreciation for Joe Sakic.

“Avs have an awful defense” - Adds Girard, Makar, Cole, Byram and Timmins within 2 years.

“Avs need a goaltender” - Acquires a #1G for a second round pick. Said goaltender carries them to the playoffs and almost to the conference finals.

“Avs are old and slow” - Avs are statistically the youngest team in the NHL and I would argue they’re the fastest.

“Avs are thin down the center” - Acquires Kadri and now we have Mack-Kadri-Compher-Jost-Bellemare-Kam down the middle.

“Avs has a great season but need depth if they want to make a deeper run going forward” - Adds an entire 2nd line during the offseason.

“Sakic is screwed. Rantanen is better than Marner so he’s getting at least 11M” - Mikko signs for 1 year longer and 1.7M/year less than Marner.

sakic_joe-1040x572.jpg
 

Muffin

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Aug 14, 2009
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This team needs a better 6th defenseman!:soap:

Other than that maybe a more pure 3rd line center...:dunno:
I'd like to add another 2nd line winger at the deadline, not really sold on Donskoi/Burakovsky being consistent point producers, I think our 3rd pairing is fine with Cole back. I'd actually like to see Timmins given another shot next to Cole. I imagine Timmins would look a lot better next to Cole than Graves.
 
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flyfysher

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Mar 21, 2012
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I just want to show a little appreciation for Joe Sakic.

“Avs have an awful defense” - Adds Girard, Makar, Cole, Byram and Timmins within 2 years.

“Avs need a goaltender” - Acquires a #1G for a second round pick. Said goaltender carries them to the playoffs and almost to the conference finals.

“Avs are old and slow” - Avs are statistically the youngest team in the NHL and I would argue they’re the fastest.

“Avs are thin down the center” - Acquires Kadri and now we have Mack-Kadri-Compher-Jost-Bellemare-Kam down the middle.

“Avs has a great season but need depth if they want to make a deeper run going forward” - Adds an entire 2nd line during the offseason.

“Sakic is screwed. Rantanen is better than Marner so he’s getting at least 11M” - Mikko signs for 1 year longer and 1.7M/year less than Marner.

sakic_joe-1040x572.jpg
Good job. Add:

Avs need secondary scoring. They can't just rely on their top line. (Um, look at what our team has done the last 5 games)

Avs need die hard fans with more patience. (Never)

Avs need a carrier to broadcast their games without any BS. (Definitely)
 

Iceberg

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May 4, 2002
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Landy isn't going anywhere even if he struggles a bit. He's too important to the franchise. So if a full NMC knocks off 500-750k per, by all means give him a full one.

He is too important right now, may not be the case in two years, when he is aprroaching 29, and most likely won't be the case when he is 32-33.

So, i could live with a full NMC for the first 4 years of his new deal and after that is a limited NTC.
 

Ararana

Registered User
Sep 22, 2013
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I just want to show a little appreciation for Joe Sakic.

“Avs have an awful defense” - Adds Girard, Makar, Cole, Byram and Timmins within 2 years.

“Avs need a goaltender” - Acquires a #1G for a second round pick. Said goaltender carries them to the playoffs and almost to the conference finals.

“Avs are old and slow” - Avs are statistically the youngest team in the NHL and I would argue they’re the fastest.

“Avs are thin down the center” - Acquires Kadri and now we have Mack-Kadri-Compher-Jost-Bellemare-Kam down the middle.

“Avs has a great season but need depth if they want to make a deeper run going forward” - Adds an entire 2nd line during the offseason.

“Sakic is screwed. Rantanen is better than Marner so he’s getting at least 11M” - Mikko signs for 1 year longer and 1.7M/year less than Marner.

sakic_joe-1040x572.jpg

upload_2019-10-15_8-41-53.png


We toured the Denver Hall of Fame at the Mile High Stadium when we flew in for game 1. Joe Sakic wasn't in there... yes we complained.
 

henchman21

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He is too important right now, may not be the case in two years, when he is aprroaching 29, and most likely won't be the case when he is 32-33.

So, i could live with a full NMC for the first 4 years of his new deal and after that is a limited NTC.

It isn't just about on the ice. On the ice Landy is way too important now and likely for the 4 years you're talking about. The last few might get rough. Off the ice, in the locker room and media, he is simply way too important to this team. He's an Av for life.
 

Cousin Eddie

You Serious Clark?
Nov 3, 2006
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Anyone else concerned about Hall going forward?

He is noticibly slower this year than ever before. His game is completely dependent on his speed. He has played one full season so far in his 9 year long career because of injuries.

I’m all for making this team better but I can’t help but feel Taylor Hall is going to crash hard.
 

SaltySkywalker

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Jul 15, 2016
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He is too important right now, may not be the case in two years, when he is aprroaching 29, and most likely won't be the case when he is 32-33.

So, i could live with a full NMC for the first 4 years of his new deal and after that is a limited NTC.

How dare you...
7a03237c-22c6-4616-8ff2-d8427b86a659_text.gif
 

henchman21

Mr. Meeseeks
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Anyone else concerned about Hall going forward?

He is noticibly slower this year than ever before. His game is completely dependent on his speed. He has played one full season so far in his 9 year long career because of injuries.

I’m all for making this team better but I can’t help but feel Taylor Hall is going to crash hard.

He's the exact type of player that gets hit hard with age and injuries... all physical tools, but no tool box to put them in. He's not going to adapt well to losing his physical advantage. I doubt he is in the NHL to finish his next contract. That said, for the next 2-3-4 years he's probably going recover and play great.
 
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