2019/20 Roster Thread XXXIV

[Stizzle]

Hayes was the missing piece of the Flyers' puzzle

Sorry, Brooke Destra (who?). The correct answer is actually no more Dave Hakstol.

 

[Stizzle]

People need to understand the difference between a player sucking and a contract sucking.

Yes, but it's also fair to say we have a crazy depth of talent right now. Fitting them all under the salary cap will eventually be a problem. Getting out from under the Hayes deal would alleviate a lot of long-term cap strain.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Sorry, Brooke Destra (who?). The correct answer is actually no more Dave Hakstol.

This Flyers season is somewhat reminiscent of the 2017 Eagles. Where people place too much emphasis on the acquisitions (Darby, Ajayi, etc.) as the reason for getting over the hump and neglect that the true core of the team, both lines, were already in place and kept them competitive all season long. Coaching helped too. Doug evolved. Flyers got rid of a dinosaur.

This Flyers core is just too talented and in their primes for the most part. They were going to breakout eventually provided they weren’t held back by the guy behind the bench. It doesn’t mean the acquisitions have just been along for the ride, they haven’t, but replace them with three comparable names and the season doesn’t fall apart.

 

[Curufinwe]

Niskanen was the biggest addition because he allowed the ES defense to be stacked properly with Sanheim on his strong side.

 

[Starat327]

Yes, but it's also fair to say we have a crazy depth of talent right now. Fitting them all under the salary cap will eventually be a problem. Getting out from under the Hayes deal would alleviate a lot of long-term cap strain.

100% agreed. I'm OK with Hayes the player. I'm not OK with the Hayes contract. He's good, but it was an overpay for sure, no matter what his "locker room presence" is.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

If we win a Cup with him: I do not care what his contract is.

Agrees

What's your opinion on the contract if we don't win a cup and his AAV cost the team a younger and more important asset or hinders the teams depth when they're peaking?

 

[renberg]

100% agreed. I'm OK with Hayes the player. I'm not OK with the Hayes contract. He's good, but it was an overpay for sure, no matter what his "locker room presence" is.

It was the market price at the time. As for this season, IMO, Hayes has earned his paycheck. Will he continue to do that? Who knows.
Going on to the chances in the POs, right after the shut down, Quick was talking about getting back into playing shape. It was his opinion that it would be most difficult for the goalies. There is the physical side to the position but also the mental one. A goalie needs to get into that zone where they can “see” the play before it happens so that they can make the save. We may be surprised to see some goalies not ready to play up to expectations when the games resume.

 

[Curufinwe]

Sad that Hayes won’t have the chance to crack 50 points in a season for the first time ever due to lockdown.

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

Sad that Hayes won’t have the chance to crack 50 points in a season for the first time ever due to lockdown.

He did it in 18/19, just over two teams.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

People need to understand the difference between a player sucking and a contract sucking.

With most FA signings the contract is going to suck somehow. You sometimes have to give into the stupid to get the guy you need/want. Doesn’t make it right but that is how the game is played now when it comes to free agency

 

[deadhead]

With most FA signings the contract is going to suck somehow. You sometimes have to give into the stupid to get the guy you need/want. Doesn’t make it right but that is how the game is played now when it comes to free agency

FA is always like that, which is why you don't want to sign guys coming off career years, odds are it's an anomaly.
You'll always overpay, but overpay for a consistent track record, which is what they did with Hayes.
Plus, AV knew him, so it wasn't like buying a guy and hope he works out with his new team.

Hayes wasn't a gross overpay, even if he ends up a RW in a couple years, with his PK skills and ability to fill in on PP2, he's worth $5+M even as a 40 ES scorer. So the downside risk was less than many FAs.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Hoberg and Bernhardt will likely be UFAs by this time next week.

 

[wasup]

It's really a shame he was nose blind to the Haksmell, but I am not sure he makes the moves Fletcher did like bringing Hart up or acquiring Niskanen/Braun/Hayes, either.

He gave us the cap space which allowed Fletch to make those moves like he did .

 

[Rebels57]

He did it in 18/19, just over two teams.

Pretty sure he was being cheeky

 

[Rebels57]

Hoberg and Bernhardt will likely be UFAs by this time next week.

Bizarre

 

[TCTC]

He gave us the cap space which allowed Fletch to make those moves like he did .

Hextall didn't make many bad moves. His biggest weakness was the moves he didn't make.

 

[JayRosehillMVP]

Hayes can slide to the wing if need be and he’s an excellent skater. I’m confident he’ll be productive till the end of his contract. If your overpaying one middle six guy with versatility so what?

 

[NYCFlyer]

Agrees

What's your opinion on the contract if we don't win a cup and his AAV cost the team a younger and more important asset or hinders the teams depth when they're peaking?

So you are worried about the impact of his contract in 5 years? We had one of the best records in the league over what the last three months. Each year only a few teams have a realistic chance at a cup at the start of the playoffs based on talent, injuries and hot goaltending. We are one of those teams this year and given our depth everywhere except goaltending we are really well positioned for the next five years to win it all. Fletch did what was needed to attain that by signing Hayes, trading for Niskanen and firing Hak and hiring AV. As a STH I'm thrilled with the changes, they are fun to watch and great at home.

 

[Larry44]

Bizarre

Hard to know if it's bizarre or just realistic. And it's still not out of the question that one or both of them sign at the last minute.

At the WJC, Hogberg looked like he might be a player, but is there room for an avg sized defensive D given the current depth of youth? They have not prioritized signing him and York is basically him but with more offense and better skating. Zamula and even Kalynuk are also ahead of him on the depth chart.

Bernhardt has some intriguing skills and size, but if there is no hope for him ever being a Flyer (there isn't), then they may not want to use an NHL ELC to fill an AHL spot? We'll see.

 

[Tripod]

Signing Hog and bringing him over makes too much sense. It would give us extra depth who could get called up when injuries occur.

But sadly, doesn't look like it will happen.

 

[BritainStix]

Signing them would require them to play in the AHL though. Their chances at cracking the flyers D core next year are very slim. They will get comparable salaries at home, with bonus's. It's not an easy move as a young player to make that call.

 

[orangey]

Signing Hog and bringing him over makes too much sense. It would give us extra depth who could get called up when injuries occur.

But sadly, doesn't look like it will happen.

Agreed. Not sure why they cant find a contract spot to at least offer him but it seems the decision has been made. Apparently they feel there just isn't enough upside there compared to some of the bigger or more puck skilled prospects. I'd rather have the additional depth instead of the vet trash in the AHL but oh well. Now watch them have a slew of injuries and have to play those guys.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Signing them would require them to play in the AHL though. Their chances at cracking the flyers D core next year are very slim. They will get comparable salaries at home, with bonus's. It's not an easy move as a young player to make that call.

They'd have to be looking to the future. The only readily replaceable dman is Hagg, but if they're looking at the situation honestly they'd recognize that coaches have an inexplicable infatuation with him so it's unwise to bank on edging him out.

Braun is aging and his cap hit might warrant his replacement so that's a potential avenue. But whoever is making that jump would have to be willing to risk being paid less to compete for pretty much a single spot in the hope of sticking and making more longterm.

Our defense is pretty logjammy. We may be at the point where we can start selling some of these D prospects to fill needs. This is good. This is an issue the team has never faced before.

 

[Here4ThaLids]

They'd have to be looking to the future. The only readily replaceable dman is Hagg, but if they're looking at the situation honestly they'd recognize that coaches have an inexplicable infatuation with him so it's unwise to bank on edging him out.

Braun is aging and his cap hit might warrant his replacement so that's a potential avenue. But whoever is making that jump would have to be willing to risk being paid less to compete for pretty much a single spot in the hope of sticking and making more longterm.

Our defense is pretty logjammy. We may be at the point where we can start selling some of these D prospects to fill needs. This is good. This is an issue the team has never faced before.

If this were fifteen or twenty years ago I'd suggest not worrying, Clarke will wake up on the wrong side of the bed and trade Sanheim for a big-bodied checking center. No logjams allowed!

 

[GapToothedWonder]

So you are worried about the impact of his contract in 5 years? We had one of the best records in the league over what the last three months. Each year only a few teams have a realistic chance at a cup at the start of the playoffs based on talent, injuries and hot goaltending. We are one of those teams this year and given our depth everywhere except goaltending we are really well positioned for the next five years to win it all. Fletch did what was needed to attain that by signing Hayes, trading for Niskanen and firing Hak and hiring AV. As a STH I'm thrilled with the changes, they are fun to watch and great at home.

I'm worried that the contract will become an albatross somewhere in year 3 and become more of a hindrance then a help from that point on.

I already agreed that it has been great for this year. I'm glad you agree with me.

I think it is possible that the Flyers end up losing a young talented piece that should be part of a younger core because we have spent time much on players like Hayes and JVR.

A big part of that is also what happens to Patrick and Lindblom long term which at this point is more or less an unknown.