2019/20 Roster Thread XXXIV

[deadhead]

See...you are lying/misleading/ignoring again.

You say Frost was 180 at TC....but which one? You are INSINUATING, that was at the last TC. The link I provided was Frost himself in July 2018 saying he was 187 and trying to get to 190 by THAT TC...in 2018.

So again....already had added 15 lbs in 2 years since being drafted....not the 7-12 in 3 years you "claimed".

And your answer to it is..."I don't believe it"

training camp roster weights, 2016-2019:

NAK 204, 204, 196, 211
Bunnaman 209, 219, 214, 226
Farabee ---, ---, ---, 171
Frost ---, 173, 180, 180
Giroux 185, 185, 185, 192
Kase ---, ---, 170, 168
TK 184, 184, 175, 183
Laberge ---, 182, 174, 188
Laughton 190, 190, 190, 185
Patrick ---, 195, 198, 203
Ratcliffe ---, 201, 200, 208
Rubtsov ---, 192, 190, 203
Sushko ---, 187, 181, 194
Twarynski 191, 193, 198, 206
Friedman ---, ---, 191, 185
Ghost 186, 186, 180, 184
Provorov 203, 203, 201, 211
Myers 204, 212, 202, 218
Sanheim 202, 205, 181, 205 [181 was his combine # in 2014]
Wylie ---, ---, 190, 188
Hart 176, 180, 180, 187

The 2018 numbers look like an intern took them off "official rosters".
Some numbers raise eyebrows,
TK hasn't gained a lb in 3 years? Doesn't pass the eyeball test, he's clearly thicker
Sanheim has gained 3 lbs in 3 years, again eyeball says he's filled out a bit
Laughton at 185? Friedman at 185?

As far as media reports of players gaining weight:

Todd Pinkston gained 10 lbs every summer of his career.

 

[deadhead]

The problem with Frost is fitting him into the current lineup.
The first two lines are set if you keep Farabee - Hayes - TK together (if Lindblom was healthy, he'd be the 2LW).

JVR - Frost - ??? That's a hard line to fit together.
And Frost doesn't make sense as a 4C playing 10 minutes a night in a checking role with Raffl and NAK/Pitlick.

The difference between Frost and Thomas on St Louis last year was Thomas was a full bodied player who could fill different roles.
Frost needs the right forwards, physical skill guys, and he's probably not ready to play defense at center for AV.
He could be a speedy LW as he learns, but with what center? And JVR is the 3LW right now b/c he doesn't fit well with Hayes.

It's not about putting the 12 most talented forwards on the ice, it's about putting the 12 forwards that are the best fit on the ice.
This team was put together last June with the assumption that Lindblom and Patrick would be starters.
Who knows what next year teams will look like? But Fletcher will have plenty of options.

 

[Striiker]

The Flyers were not as deep in 17-18 as they were in 19-20. He got fairly normal usage for a bottom 6 forward in MOST of his games. In other games where he got more or less than normal, it was usually the type of game dictating AV's deployment. Again, i'll give you 2-3 games he should have seen the ice more, but thats about it.

The 17-18 comment was just about how poor usage gives guys like TK/Frost less of a chance to show what they can do. We’ve seen the same thing with Couturier, Sanheim, and Ghost too.

My point was just that playing skilled players in a lower role limits their impact and often as soon as their role changes, their production changes too. I know I’m a broken record at this point but teammates and usage matter for every player, especially a rookie like Frost.

 

[Appleyard]

training camp roster weights, 2016-2019:

NAK 204, 204, 196, 211
Bunnaman 209, 219, 214, 226
Farabee ---, ---, ---, 171
Frost ---, 173, 180, 180
Giroux 185, 185, 185, 192
Kase ---, ---, 170, 168
TK 184, 184, 175, 183
Laberge ---, 182, 174, 188
Laughton 190, 190, 190, 185
Patrick ---, 195, 198, 203
Ratcliffe ---, 201, 200, 208
Rubtsov ---, 192, 190, 203
Sushko ---, 187, 181, 194
Twarynski 191, 193, 198, 206
Friedman ---, ---, 191, 185
Ghost 186, 186, 180, 184
Provorov 203, 203, 201, 211
Myers 204, 212, 202, 218
Sanheim 202, 205, 181, 205 [181 was his combine # in 2014]
Wylie ---, ---, 190, 188
Hart 176, 180, 180, 187

The 2018 numbers look like an intern took them off "official rosters".
Some numbers raise eyebrows,
TK hasn't gained a lb in 3 years? Doesn't pass the eyeball test, he's clearly thicker
Sanheim has gained 3 lbs in 3 years, again eyeball says he's filled out a bit
Laughton at 185? Friedman at 185?

As far as media reports of players gaining weight:

Todd Pinkston gained 10 lbs every summer of his career.

It is because some guys are measured and some guys are not.

Simmonds weight became basically a running joke seemingly. He was around 200lbs his entire Flyers career but listed at 185lbs.

Giroux has been between 190-200lbs for 5+ years.

Couturier was listed at 197lbs for years when he was around 210-215lbs.

Raffl is listed at the weight he came into the NHL at. When he has played for Austria he has been listed at 5-10lbs heavier. (205-210)

Voracek was up at 220+ for a while and his listed weight never went over 214lbs.

 

[Larry44]

Not sure if you saw this article about the players coming back to train at Voorhees - and mention of Nolan Patrick feeling better while training and skating (I assume at home in Winnipeg).

Some Flyers returning to Voorhees practice facility Monday, most will remain in hometowns; Nolan Patrick ‘feeling better’

Nolan Patrick, 21, who has missed the entire season because of a migraine disorder, has been working out in Manitoba. Flahr said the center was “feeling better” but didn’t believe he would be back in the area until it was closer to training camp.
“I know he’s skating and training," Flahr said.
Asked if it was a possibility that Patrick could be ready to play when the season restarts, Flahr said, “Who knows? I have no idea. All I know is he’s been feeling better. Obviously, he’s missed a lot of time and it’ll take him a lot to get up to speed. If he’s healthy and ready to go, that’s good, and obviously, that would be another [hurdle] cleared, but we’re worried about the long term."

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Not sure if you saw this article about the players coming back to train at Voorhees - and mention of Nolan Patrick feeling better while training and skating (I assume at home in Winnipeg).

Some Flyers returning to Voorhees practice facility Monday, most will remain in hometowns; Nolan Patrick ‘feeling better’

Nolan Patrick, 21, who has missed the entire season because of a migraine disorder, has been working out in Manitoba. Flahr said the center was “feeling better” but didn’t believe he would be back in the area until it was closer to training camp.
“I know he’s skating and training," Flahr said.
Asked if it was a possibility that Patrick could be ready to play when the season restarts, Flahr said, “Who knows? I have no idea. All I know is he’s been feeling better. Obviously, he’s missed a lot of time and it’ll take him a lot to get up to speed. If he’s healthy and ready to go, that’s good, and obviously, that would be another [hurdle] cleared, but we’re worried about the long term."

hes done... just accept it and move on..

 

[Striiker]

hes done... just accept it and move on..

This is a premature reaction. You're just guessing.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

This is a premature reaction. You're just guessing.

or im from the future..

 

[Rebels57]

The 17-18 comment was just about how poor usage gives guys like TK/Frost less of a chance to show what they can do. We’ve seen the same thing with Couturier, Sanheim, and Ghost too.

My point was just that playing skilled players in a lower role limits their impact and often as soon as their role changes, their production changes too. I know I’m a broken record at this point but teammates and usage matter for every player, especially a rookie like Frost.

To the bolded, I do agree..I just dont think he was played in the bottom 6 for any other reason than the Flyers being a really deep forward group.

 

[deadhead]

As I've shown, TK from 2017-2019 was two different players, a top six forward with Couts as his center, a marginal NHL forward with anyone else at center.
When you have such a drastic dropoff, it suggests the player has to be "protected."
This season, TK has become a line driver instead of a caboose.

One problem for the Flyers is they don't have another "Couts," a center who can make his wings better, Hayes isn't that kind of center, Patrick might develop into one, but he's been derailed, Frost is years away from being that guy. So it makes it hard to mix and match.

Some forwards are "center independent," Lindblom plays well with practically any center, TK has become that kind of forward this year, I think Farabee will be that kind of guy in a couple years. Laczynski and Cates have that kind of potential, maybe NAK. Other forwards need the right fit to be effective.

 

[Striiker]

To the bolded, I do agree..I just dont think he was played in the bottom 6 for any other reason than the Flyers being a really deep forward group.

And that's fine, I don't disagree. I'm not saying he has to play in the top 6 or bust, he can play on the 3rd line, just so long as he's actually playing reasonable minutes (even if he can't play in the top 6, he can get more minutes than he was getting) and he's able to get experience. Then, if there's an injury or the lines need a shake-up, give him a chance in the top 6. I just don't want him in the AHL. That's what I have a big problem with.

I was just saying that it was his usage that caused him to score less than his level of play deserved, not that he isn't NHL ready or belongs in the AHL (as the staff and people on here keep suggesting).

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

Move it, scoundrels.