2019/20 Roster Thread XXII

[sa cyred]

View attachment 264381


*The darkest timeline*

Yo, the comments in this thread are awesome. One guy literally saying those who can't skate are the one's complaining about signing him (aka he means that smart people would sign him).

 

[TheKingPin]

Hey flyers fans. Is Ghostbear done being a top point producer? I’m curious for fantasy hockey purposes.

He’s still PP1 QB that has looked good just hasn’t scored. He could easily start getting points. His 5v5 pts should come easier when we trade Hagg.

 

[Curufinwe]

Could be a paper transaction for now until they get back. You can be assigned but not report per orders of the team assigning you. But I don't think it is.

It would be a little odd if they sent him home on Tuesday afternoon instead of just letting him come back with the team on Thursday morning. The Phantoms don't play again till Friday night.

Of course, theoretically, he could be claimed on waivers.

 

[Juicy Pop]

His name is Chriiiis Stewaaaart, his game is pylon-tier! No roster too deep, no deal too cheap, whose that? It's him! Chris Steeewart!!!

...

Chriiiis Stewaaaart, bane of Farabeeee! With a dying thirst to be the worst! Could it be? Yeah, that's him! Chris Steeewart!!!



edit: better rhyme

 

[deadhead]

I'm generally with Dave G on this one in principle -- it isn't the end of the world if you play a borderline NHLer in a borderline role.

I think the premise is that it's more common to play borderline players in those roles than people hype themselves up to believe. Sure if Myers was better, it'd ideally be best to play him right away instead of a Hagg, but there's typically a Hagg on every team. We're not a glorious exception to the norm of a roster.

Again: Don't freak out and go "WHY BE THE NORM WHEN WE CAN BE BETTER?!?!? DUMB!" -- I'm just saying that there's a lot of very good things to look at on our defense. Don't look at the #6 slot and harp on it all season when 1-4 (5) being in-line is much more indicative of your success rather than #6.

Don't assume we can be better.

There's a presumption here that every hot prospect will be an instant success in the NHL.
The reality is that other than uber-talents, most players struggle for a year or two, even the ones that eventually are top players.

So you can't compare say Bunnaman with the player Frost will be a year from now, but the Frost right now who hasn't scored a point in 3 AHL games. Frost might be the better player 20 or 40 games from now, but he's not necessarily an upgrade right now - if neither is ready to consistently score at the NHL level, then Bunnaman's size might be more valuable right now.

Myers last spring and in TC flashed great talent and a ten cent head. Until he is more fundamentally sound, he'll do a better job scoring for both teams than Hagg.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

What's up with Jake's and Ghosts lack of icetime? Are they banged up or something?

They’ve stunk & Vigneault isn’t afraid to cut ice time based on lack of performance, regardless of name.

 

[baudib1]

I'd categorically reject the notion that your 6th/7th defenseman or 12th forward isn't important. Every team in the league besides Ottawa ices 8-9 players who can play in the top half of the lineup for a Cup-winning team.

Despite being in a sheltered 3rd pair role, Hagg has given up the most Corsi of any defenseman on the team. He's a bad defensive defenseman. Bleeding scoring chances and shots is absolutely going to cost you over the course of a season.

Corsi For
Ghost 45
Hagg 39

Corsi Against
Hagg 45
Ghost 40

Despite the fact that they're 5v5 partners, Ghost has outperformed Hagg by a considerable margin in both ends. We're talking about a net difference of 4 per game. If you could improve on one of the worst defensemen in the league and just get to -2 per game (compared to Ghost) you're talking about 8-10 goals and probably 2-3 wins a year. This isn't just stuff you wave and shrug away.

 

[baudib1]

Don't assume we can be better.

There's a presumption here that every hot prospect will be an instant success in the NHL.
The reality is that other than uber-talents, most players struggle for a year or two, even the ones that eventually are top players.

So you can't compare say Bunnaman with the player Frost will be a year from now, but the Frost right now who hasn't scored a point in 3 AHL games. Frost might be the better player 20 or 40 games from now, but he's not necessarily an upgrade right now - if neither is ready to consistently score at the NHL level, then Bunnaman's size might be more valuable right now.

Myers last spring and in TC flashed great talent and a ten cent head. Until he is more fundamentally sound, he'll do a better job scoring for both teams than Hagg.

Categorically incorrect. Myers is better defensively than Hagg. This "ten-cent head" and "deer in headlights" fiction you've been writing about Myers for 8 months is espoused by you and you alone.

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

He’s still PP1 QB that has looked good just hasn’t scored. He could easily start getting points. His 5v5 pts should come easier when we trade Hagg.

Wasn’t Hagg out of position quite a few times this season already? Ghost covers the D zone more in that scenario. That might explain some of his lack of offensive output.

 

[Tripod]

If it's one thing our team doesn't need...it's a 4th liner. We are currently icing 5 guys who should be on the 4th line by possibly December. Then there is also guys like Rubstov in the AHL.

Hell...if Patrick comes back healthy, we don't even have room in the top 9 for both Farabee and Frost with a healthy team. Signing Stewart is just a waste of a contract spot

 

[deadhead]

Categorically incorrect. Myers is better defensively than Hagg. This "ten-cent head" and "deer in headlights" fiction you've been writing about Myers for 8 months is espoused by you and you alone.

Right, so explain his xGF 39.39% last year paired with Ghost, or his play in TC that got him demoted.
It's obviously not his lack of mobility, or his skill package, so what exactly causes him to underperform?
And it's not like Hagg and Morin beat him out because they're bigger and more physical.

 

[Tripod]

Wasn’t Hagg out of position quite a few times this season already? Ghost covers the D zone more in that scenario. That might explain some of his lack of offensive output.

Hagg has pinched WAY more than Ghost has this year. Last game he blocked 2 of our shots while getting in the way in front of the net. So yeah, Ghost is the one staying back ironically. Yet idiots will complain because Ghost isn't producing yet he has a partner who "supposed" to be the defensive one of the pairing.

 

[Flyers Time]

Remember when people were mad we didn’t get Subban. Haha

 

[deadhead]

Hagg has pinched WAY more than Ghost has this year. Last game he blocked 2 of our shots while getting in the way in front of the net. So yeah, Ghost is the one staying back ironically. Yet idiots will complain because Ghost isn't producing yet he has a partner who "supposed" to be the defensive one of the pairing.

Except Ghost always "stays back," even when paired with Provorov, Provorov was the one who attacked the net.

Ghost tends to avoid traffic, and likes to work in open space near the blue line where he has room to maneuver, can survey the action, look to make a play or put the puck on net.

Hagg pinching and going to the net sounds more like AV's decision, to send the big defenseman toward the net and keep the mobile defenseman back to cut off breakaways and stretch passes.

 

[baudib1]

2/17/2019-4/04/2019

Games
Myers 21
Hagg 23

TOI
Myers 292:07
Hagg 323:19

CF
Myers 266
Hagg 278

CA
Myers 279
Hagg 386

GF
Myers 9
Hagg 15

GA
Myers 15
Hagg 24

xGA
Myers 13.5
Hagg 16.18

Hagg's most common forward teammates are Giroux, Konecny and Couturier. Myers' most common forwards are Giroux, Konecny and JVR.

There's zero evidence to support Hagg is better than Myers defensively. The issues Myers had last season (especially in his xGF%) come from not producing offense.

 

[Striiker]

I know people freak out when I defend Ghost, but let’s be real here.... he’s been very good individually and his only problem right now is that he’s buried with scrubs and the top PP is still being sabotaged.

If the lineup/usage gets fixed and he continues playing at the exact same level, he’ll be extremely successful.

And keep in mind how often he’s been forced to be the safety net, since for some reason Hagg thinks he’s EK in the offensive zone.

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

Hagg has pinched WAY more than Ghost has this year. Last game he blocked 2 of our shots while getting in the way in front of the net. So yeah, Ghost is the one staying back ironically. Yet idiots will complain because Ghost isn't producing yet he has a partner who "supposed" to be the defensive one of the pairing.

I remember that one lol. Luckily Ghost has been very solid in the D zone.

Good old Robert “Orr” Hagg. The gift that keeps on giving.

 

[flyersnorth]

Its hard to be dynamic offensively when you are shackled with poor players for most of your playing time. It's also difficult to be effective on the PP when the team is purposely making the PP worse. The passing lanes arent there like they used to be there, and its not ideal for anyone thats on the ice during them. One of the league's best PPs didnt just magically forget how to score on the PP.

I've found the power play to be quite different so far this year. PP1 has had quite a few 'new' plays vs the typical 2-3 that were staples in the past several years. Their puck movement has been very good. And it does seem like the D are no longer the primary option (i.e. low to high).

And IIRC, PP2 has actually outscored PP1 so far this year (or they're very close), which is a great sign.

So maybe it's just an 'evolution' of our PPs instead of such intense focus on Ghost and G in years past (with Schenn, Coots, Simmonds, JVR as the triggermen/net front guys).

 

[Rich Nixon]

Maybe Myers and Farabee can just do this a couple more times and both make the trip down from Allentown when the team comes home this weekend.



I think a Myers/Ghost pairing and some actual playmaking touch on the 3rd line check pretty much all the boxes.

 

[Striiker]

I've found the power play to be quite different so far this year. PP1 has had quite a few 'new' plays vs the typical 2-3 that were staples in the past several years. Their puck movement has been very good. And it does seem like the D are no longer the primary option (i.e. low to high).

And IIRC, PP2 has actually outscored PP1 so far this year (or they're very close), which is a great sign.

So maybe it's just an 'evolution' of our PPs instead of such intense focus on Ghost and G in years past (with Schenn, Coots, Simmonds, JVR as the triggermen/net front guys).

It’s because they ruined it by putting Giroux on the wrong side, meaning neither he nor Voracek can shoot one-timers, which used to be a huge (and massively successful) part of the PP.

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

Maybe Myers and Farabee can just do this a couple more times and both make the trip down from Allentown when the team comes home this weekend.



I think a Myers/Ghost pairing and some actual playmaking touch on the 3rd line check pretty much all the boxes.

That was a sweet goal.

 

[Rich Nixon]

That was a sweet goal.

Nasty as the finish was, the pass was something else too. Perfect placement, great vision, and excellent patience to wait until the lane was clear and Farabee had the separation he needed. Phil and Joel are both guys that will excel under AV's system when they get their due.

Awesome play all-around.

 

[baudib1]

I think PP1 has looked pretty good so far just haven't found the net (more than once). The team has 4 PP goals in 3 games, I don't think it's time to panic yet.

 

[Starat327]

I've found the power play to be quite different so far this year. PP1 has had quite a few 'new' plays vs the typical 2-3 that were staples in the past several years. Their puck movement has been very good. And it does seem like the D are no longer the primary option (i.e. low to high).

And IIRC, PP2 has actually outscored PP1 so far this year (or they're very close), which is a great sign.

So maybe it's just an 'evolution' of our PPs instead of such intense focus on Ghost and G in years past (with Schenn, Coots, Simmonds, JVR as the triggermen/net front guys).

It's certainly an evolution. But we tried this Giroux on the opposite side thing last year and it didnt work. Hes got the best vision on the ice, theres no reason we should be hampering him, especially given the results (acknowledging the small sample size here) they have (not) gotten.

I'm glad PP2 is playing better, but why does it need to be one or the other? What's wrong with having two good PP setups?similarly, what's wrong with having good ( or at least, better) players in you 6/7 and 12/13?

I feel like too many people are just "well we got rid of most of the trash, you should be happy", but that's not how this should work. Just because we arent dealing with something thats 5% optimal anymore doesnt mean we should be happy with something that's 80% instead.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

2/17/2019-4/04/2019

Games
Myers 21
Hagg 23

TOI
Myers 292:07
Hagg 323:19

CF
Myers 266
Hagg 278

CA
Myers 279
Hagg 386

GF
Myers 9
Hagg 15

GA
Myers 15
Hagg 24

xGA
Myers 13.5
Hagg 16.18

Hagg's most common forward teammates are Giroux, Konecny and Couturier. Myers' most common forwards are Giroux, Konecny and JVR.

There's zero evidence to support Hagg is better than Myers defensively. The issues Myers had last season (especially in his xGF%) come from not producing offense.

Interesting that you’d cite all of those fancy stats yet leave out the xGF%.

Couldn’t possibly be because:

Myers 39.17
Hagg 41.45

Might also want to reference offensive zone start %:

Myers: 55.88
Hagg 46.90

I take all these fancy stats with a huge grain of salt, but if you’re going to use them in an effort to argue “there’s zero evidence to support Hagg is better than Myers defensively,” you probably shouldn’t cherry pick. Clearly you think play with the puck/possession is part of defense or else you wouldn’t have cited Corsi.