Salary Cap: 2019-20 How Can the Leafs Stay Under The Cap?

[Menzinger]

Alex Tuch signed a 7 year $4.75M extension after 1 season of 15 goals and 37 points. Kapanen's bridge is this final year of his ELC. And if he's signing a so-called bridge it'll be closer to $5M than $3M.

There are zero contract comparisons that would have Kapanen making nearly 5 million on a bridge (try 2-3 million).

And the Tuch contract is an outlier, though I’d wager Kapanen agent thinks his client will be worth more than 4.7 long term (eventually).

 

[deletethis]

That means nothing. Coming off an ELC there are many others that signed for less then that after better seasons then Tuch had. In the end its a crapshoot what these guys will sign for after their ELC. Tuch also signed for 7 years hence the reason so high of a number.

The denial is strong.

 

[Menzinger]

The threat of offer sheets is the leverage, not the actual act of an offer sheet. The RFA status gives the player to freely explore his value to other NHL teams.

The GM also has the ability to trade the player before an offersheet can be offered. I’d like these guys signed, but if they get flipped for a younger D man I won’t conplain.

They can take a bridge deal and be part of the Leafs moving forward, or they can threaten to chase the money and get traded. I don’t see a problem here

 

[Whaleafs]

A lot can happen in the summer that can change the landscape and I'd hope Dubas the so called boy genius would find a creative way to fix the dcore you present if not this team is taking a huge step back.

No I want to see what you come up with because you’re clearly the smartest in the room.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

Given offer sheet compensation ranges, a top 10 NHL team (20+ overall pick) undoubtedly would be willing to give up its 1st round pick for Kapanen.

Johnsson? That's highly debatable but Johnsson could get north of $4M with only a 2nd rounder on the table as compensation.

This is entirely within the realm of possibility. Like you said, there's no way we're getting these guys as cheaper as the homer fans think.

 

[RLF]

(PowerForward) Matthews Bracco
Johnsson Tavares Marner
Moore Nylander Kapanen
Marchment Petan/Goat Engvall

Rielly RHD
Muzzin Dermott
Rosen Oz
Lilly/Sandin - First callups

Andersen
Hutch

So, one more step forward this year and two steps back next year.

 

[Matthews34]

No I want to see what you come up with because you’re clearly the smartest in the room.

I never claimed I was but by you're post you are clearly not. No contending team's GM would enter the season with the dcore you propose and I would hope Dubas trades one of Marleau, Nylander, Kadri, Kappy or AJ before he let that happen.

 

[deletethis]

There are zero contract comparisons that would have Kapanen making nearly 5 million on a bridge (try 2-3 million).

And the Tuch contract is an outlier, though I’d wager Kapanen agent thinks his client will be worth more than 4.7 long term (eventually).

4 years ago, Jakob Silfverberg got $3.75M over 4 years after a career high season of 13 goals 39 points.

 

[Whaleafs]

I never claimed I was but by you're post you are clearly not. No contending team's GM would enter the season with the dcore you propose and I would hope Dubas trades one of Marleau, Nylander, Kadri, Kappy or AJ before he let that happen.

Never said they would. You must not have the IQ points to read fine print. Or make your own template, just neg and obfuscate.

 

[lebdafor norris]

Did you see the year he had last season?

52 points in his rookie year, paced for around 50 points in his 2nd year and scored 45 points last season, he also just turned 24 before the summer of last year. In a world were every GMs and their grandmas are willing to give Kap and AJ a 4.5-5 mill AAV offersheet after 1 good season, what exactly is it then about Domi, that made him so unappealing that this same GM aren't willing to give him the same offer despite being in a similar age group as AJ and Kap and having a longer track record?

 

[sheed36]

Why then didn't Domi sign a longer deal, for a higher AAV this summer, if offersheets are as common as you seem to be implying here? He already had a 52 point and a 45 point season coming in to the summer, yet, no offer sheets of 5+ mill for 4-5 years came his way despite being unsigned till mid June.

Because no team could offer sheet Domi until July 1st even if they wanted too.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

The GM also has the ability to trade the player before an offersheet can be offered. I’d like these guys signed, but if they get flipped for a younger D man I won’t conplain.

They can take a bridge deal and be part of the Leafs moving forward, or they can threaten to chase the money and get traded. I don’t see a problem here

The "problem" is that you and others think we're getting these guys for $2-3 million each. We're not. Unless either A) The player gives a hometown discount or B) their agents are stupid. Thus far I have seen no evidence of either in any negotiation between our RFA's and Dubas.

Tell me something....if you're an opposing GM, do you give up a second round pick in exchange for Kappy signed at say $4 million x 6 AAV?

I think any GM does that. So where is Dubas' trade leverage? All any GM has to do is wait until July 1st, give Kappy or Johnsson an offer sheet and they're gone. Unless of course Dubas antes up.

Kappy and Johnsson's respective agents know all of the above.

 

[Matthews34]

Never said they would. You must not have the IQ points to read fine print. Or make your own template, just neg and obfuscate.

The synonym tool is a great way to look smart. I use it myself sometimes.

 

[deletethis]

52 points in his rookie year, paced for around 50 points in his 2nd year and scored 45 points last season, he also just turned 24 before the summer of last year. In a world were every GMs and their grandmas are willing to give Kap and AJ a 4.5-5 mill AAV offersheet after 1 good season, what exactly is it then about Domi, that made him so unappealing that this same GM aren't willing to give him the same offer despite being in a similar age group as AJ and Kap and having a longer track record?

Fair question. There's night and day difference in perception between a player trending down (Domi last summer) and a player trending up (Kapanen this summer).

 

[Menzinger]

The "problem" is that you and others think we're getting these guys for $2-3 million each. We're not. Unless either A) The player gives a hometown discount or B) their agents are stupid. Thus far I have seen no evidence of either in any negotiation between our RFA's and Dubas.

Tell me something....if you're an opposing GM, do you give up a second round pick in exchange for Kappy signed at say $4 million x 6 AAV?

I think any GM does that. So where is Dubas' trade leverage? All any GM has to do is wait until July 1st, give Kappy or Johnsson an offer sheet and they're gone. Unless of course Dubas antes up.

Kappy and Johnsson's respective agents know all of the above.

The 2-3 million number is from historically comparable bride deals.

Here’s the thing: offersheets probably SHOULD happen more but they don’t for whatever reason. There hasn’t been one signed since 2013, and there have only been three signed in the past decade. Plenty of teams in the past decade have been up against the cap before and didn’t get offersheeted. I don’t see any reason why this offseason will be any different.

And again, Dubas has the threat/ability to trade these guys before an offersheet could even be offered. I know these guys are fan favourites around here but I doubt management is as attached to a guy like Johnsson as they were to Nylander, if he plays hardball he’s gone.

 

[Whaleafs]

The synonym tool is a great way to look smart. I use it myself sometimes.

You should use it more

 

[Menzinger]

4 years ago, Jakob Silfverberg got $3.75M over 4 years after a career high season of 13 goals 39 points.

4 years is sort of blurring the line between bridge and medium term deal imo.

Regardless Going for a 1-3 year deal would lower the aav.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

The 2-3 million number is from historically comparable bride deals.

Here’s the thing: offersheets probably SHOULD happen more but they don’t for whatever reason. There hasn’t been one signed since 2013, and there have only been three signed in the past decade. Plenty of teams in the past decade have been up against the cap before and didn’t get offersheeted. I don’t see any reason why this offseason will be any different.

And again, Dubas has the threat/ability to trade these guys before an offersheet could even be offered. I know these guys are fan favourites around here but I doubt management is as attached to a guy like Johnsson as they were to Nylander, if he plays hardball he’s gone.

Yikes! I thought we were above this barbaric practice!

 

[JT AM da real deal]

It looks to me like one of Kappy or AJ gets traded in summer unless Z or Marleau goes. I would think AJ given he is more offensive will be the one. We need more of what Kappy brings to game. AJ for a D prospect and lower pick I would guess.
Then they can bring up Bracco in top 9 and we will be even better on offense. Keep Willy at centre and move Kadri to wing. Lets have 3 lines which can control the game. Put Marleau and Brown on 4th line with Goat so we don't make Willy short handed (enough with Babs games with him I am sick of it)

Kadri - Matty - Bracco (these guys play optimal together)
Hyman - JT - Marner (keep consistency)
Moore - Willy - Kappy (let buds play together)

 

[lebdafor norris]

Because no team could offer sheet Domi until July 1st even if they wanted too.

You're right, I guess Domi was not a good example to begin with but the logic behind it still applies to players like Darnell Nurse and Sam Reinhart, both of whom were expose to offer sheets for more than a month, yet nothing came of it and they both ended up signing a 2 year bridge deal with their team in the end.

 

[lebdafor norris]

Fair question. There's night and day difference in perception between a player trending down (Domi last summer) and a player trending up (Kapanen this summer).

Domi admittedly wasn't a very good example because he was never expose to offer sheets to begin with, a mistake on my part, but the same question could be ask about Reinhart and Nurse, both of which ended up signing similar 2 year bridge deals after being expose to offer sheets for more than a month but not getting any takers.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I got in a discussion over this before but I'll say it again: Johnsson and Kapanen ain't going to cost the Leafs $5.5M next season. Kapanen alone might get that much. It's business in the end. Someone in the league would easily give Kapanen around $5M AAV for 5+ years.

Huh? Teravainen scored 60 points last year, and 80 point pace this year. Kapenen got 9 points last year and 60 point pace this year.
Teravainen signed 5.4x5. That's 140 points the past two seasons, compared to 65-70.

And before you saying anything like "Yeah, but Teravainen is 24 years old", remember that Johnsson is also 24. So if you're going to use that excuse, you better DAMN WELL be consistent about it when discussing Johnsson's contract.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

Huh? Teravainen scored 60 points last year, and 80 point pace this year. Kapenen got 9 points last year and 60 point pace this year.
Teravainen signed 5.4x5. That's 140 points the past two seasons, compared to 65-70.

And before you saying anything like "Yeah, but Teravainen is 24 years old", remember that Johnsson is also 24. So if you're going to use that excuse, you better DAMN WELL be consistent about it when discussing Johnsson's contract.

I'm concerned for you. Seriously.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I'm concerned for you. Seriously.

I understand that. I literally can’t handle the inconsistencies, lies, spin, and rhetoric. I just can’t.

When I pointed out Teravainens contract (5.4x5 after a 60 point and 80 point pace season) in comparison to Nylander, I was told two things.

1. Point “pace” in a season doesn’t matter as much. (SO WHY DIDNT THAT APPLY TO MATTHEWS POINT PACE THIS YEAR????)

2. 23 is too “old” to break out. (THEN WHY HAVENT I HEAR JOHNSSONS AGE OF 24 MENTIONED EVEN ONE TIME???)

I just can’t handle it.

When I compared Nylander’s career high of goals at 21 compared to Pastrnaks career high of 34, I was told that “goals don’t matter. Just points”. (THEN WHY DID I HEAR ABOUT MATTHEWS GOAL TOTALS SO MANY TIMES TO RATIONALIZE HIS CONTRACT????))

There any hundreds more examples. Thousands. And I just can’t handle it anymore. I just can’t.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

I understand that. I literally can’t handle the inconsistencies, lies, spin, and rhetoric. I just can’t.

When I pointed out Teravainens contract (5.4x5 after a 60 point and 80 point pace season) in comparison to Nylander, I was told two things.

1. Point “pace” in a season doesn’t matter as much. (SO WHY DIDNT THAT APPLY TO MATTHEWS POINT PACE THIS YEAR????)

2. 23 is too “old” to break out. (THEN WHY HAVENT I HEAR JOHNSSONS AGE OF 24 MENTIONED EVEN ONE TIME???)

I just can’t handle it.

When I compared Nylander’s career high of goals at 21 compared to Pastrnaks career high of 34, I was told that “goals don’t matter. Just points”. (THEN WHY DID I HEAR ABOUT MATTHEWS GOAL TOTALS SO MANY TIMES TO RATIONALIZE HIS CONTRACT????))

There any hundreds more examples. Thousands. And I just can’t handle it anymore. I just can’t.

Maybe you just need to watch the games and get off this board?

I was in the same place as you and got a two month "vacation" from the board as a result. Now, I get into it a bit but I can't care too much about the homers anymore.

My new motto:

1) Babcock Gonna Babcock.
2) Dubas Gonna Dubas.
3) Homers Gonna Homer.