2018 Roster and Fantasy GM Thread

[Josepho]

no way in hell is horvat worth that much.

 

[JuniorNelson]

Sometimes Horvat looks like he is channeling Rocket Richard. I wouldn't trade that.

 

[MrBojangles]

HAha guy acts like Horvat is 28 not 23.
Trading Horvat is pretty much tanking the next 3 years with what this team has at center

 

[sting101]

why stop at Horvat lets start working some deals for Hughes Pettersson and Boeser?

 

[Canadian Canuck]

I am heavy on the trade Horvat bandwagon right now. It would go a long way to explain the UFA pick-ups, load up on the current youth window headlined by EP and QH, and give us a bunch more assets to flip to try and get Jack Hughes in 2019 if we don't win the lottery. I really like Horvat, and I think he's a star in this league, but given his age he might be almost 30 by the time this team is back in actual Stanley Cup Contention.

I would combine the recent chatter about Dante Fabbro and trade Horvat to Nashville. Also get Elias Pettersson's brother out of Nashville too.

To Van:
Dante Fabbro
Emil Pettersson
2019 1st
2020 1st (Top-10 Protected)

To Nas:
Horvat
4th 2019 (Benning Tax)

Lmao what a stupid idea. That offer is also garbage. A dman prospect who’s not going to be top pairing, and a C prospect just because he’s Elias brother along with two late 1st rounders. Horvat is not going anywhere just stop.

 

[DomY]

It's funny because I didn't want to clutter up the other Horvat thread with my asinine trade ideas, but the posters in the other thread think that the value is fair or even possibly too much for Horvat. Pettersson's brother is just for a laugh. He's already 24 and a non-prospect.

I'd use trading Horvat as a clear signal that everyone over 25 on the team is available for 2019 picks, and we should have at least 6 picks in the first two rounds of 2019's Draft. The goal is to put together a sweet enough package for J. Hughes when we inevitably don't win the lottery again. Using Boston's failed attempt at getting Eichel, you'd need at least 1 top 5 pick (our own) and 2 top 10 picks (using newly acquired picks or prospects).

 

[Bleach Clean]

I am heavy on the trade Horvat bandwagon right now. It would go a long way to explain the UFA pick-ups, load up on the current youth window headlined by EP and QH, and give us a bunch more assets to flip to try and get Jack Hughes in 2019 if we don't win the lottery. I really like Horvat, and I think he's a star in this league, but given his age he might be almost 30 by the time this team is back in actual Stanley Cup Contender

Pick volume does not land 1st overall. We are talking about the clear cut 1st overall prospect. This is not the same as trading up among a number of picks that have debatable value. Trading up to get Hughes is buying a lottery win, which is highly unlikely, if not impossible.

A few things have to break right to be able to trade Horvat:

1. Pettersson has to become a top6 C.
2. VAN has to be in a position to draft a top end C in 2019.
3. Some team is offering a great RHD solution for Horvat.

Beyond these aspects aligning, Horvat is a fixture here.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I'm curious about the Gagner to CHI rumours. It has me thinking about the forward corps. Right now, they have:

Baertschi-Horvat-Boeser
X-Pettersson-Eriksson
X-Sutter-Virtanen
X-Beagle-Roussel
X

Bubble: Goldobin, Granlund, Gaunce, Gagner, Schaller, Leipsic

Schaller has an injured hand. His recovery time is expected to continue into the season. This means that there are 5 players fighting for 4 spots (assuming a 13 forward rotation). With Gagner linked to CHI, it's possible that VAN can avoid losing anyone on waivers if they trade Gagner. It leaves:

Baertschi-Horvat-Boeser
Goldobin-Pettersson-Eriksson
Leipsic-Sutter-Virtanen
Gaunce-Beagle-Roussel
Granlund

Gagner traded.
Schaller injured.

A decision will have to be made when Schaller gets off the IR, but until such time, VAN will not be forced to waive a player. That's how they can start the season. Gagner for a CHI pick takes the heat off... for a time.

 

[DomY]

Pick volume does not land 1st overall. We are talking about the clear cut 1st overall prospect. This is not the same as trading up among a number of picks that have debatable value. Trading up to get Hughes is buying a lottery win, which is highly unlikely, if not impossible.

A few things have to break right to be able to trade Horvat:

1. Pettersson has to become a top6 C.
2. VAN has to be in a position to draft a top end C in 2019.
3. Some team is offering a great RHD solution for Horvat.

Beyond these aspects aligning, Horvat is a fixture here.

Absolutely right. I came to the same conclusion albeit for a different reason. Assuming Horvat has a similar year / trends upwards, there's no reason to trade him now unless it is for a gross overpayment (which almost never happens at the end of the off-season). Similarly, Horvat's trade value will be the same if not better at the end of the 2018/19 season so there's no reason for him to be traded right now as it is.

Pick volume does get you in a position to trade for the #1 pick though. Definitely not 6 picks in the top 60 for one, seeing as teams like to stay in the top tier if possible. Here's a list of draft day deals involving top 5 picks since 1999:

1999 - TB trades #1OA to Vancouver for #4OA, 75OA and 88OA (Tampa eventually traded out of the first round entirely)
- Atlanta traded a 3rd rounder to move up from 2nd to 1st as they were hosting the draft and wanted to make a splash
- Vancouver traded Bryan McCabe and a 2000 or 2001 1st to Chicago for #4OA. Chicago's pick turned out to be 11th OA in 2000
2000 - NYI trades Kevin Weekes, Kristian Kudroc, 2nd for #5OA, 4th rd, 7th rd
2001 - NYI trades #2OA, Chara and Muckalt for Yashin
2002 - CBJ trades #3 OA and the option to swap first rounders in 2003 to FLA for #1 OA (not exercised)
- Flyers trade Fedotenko, 2x 2nd for #4OA
2003 - PIT trades #3OA, 2nd for #1OA, 3rd
2004 - CAR trades #8OA, 2nd for #4OA
2008 - TOR trades #7OA, 3rd, 2nd 2009 for #5

So it seems that you need to have at least a top 8 pick to even consider trading into the top 5, unless you're willing to give up young, good roster players in a package (McCabe, Weekes, Fedotenko).

Assuming the Canucks get the #6 pick in the draft, and the team holding #1 pick is willing to trade it, the price to move up to #1 has been historically quite reasonable. Assume that Tanev has equivalent value to McCabe, and Colorado or Buffalo wins the 1st OA pick, teams that don't necessarily need another C, I could see a deal where the Canucks move up from #6 to #1 simply by including Tanev and a late first or a pair of 2nds. That would be a package that blows all the other past deals out of the water, would exceed what was offered for Eichel (11/12/13) and would unite the Hughes bros for the next 8 years.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Why waste assets to get Jack Hughes? IMO Cozens and/or Dach have #1 Center potential

 

[MrBojangles]

I'm curious about the Gagner to CHI rumours. It has me thinking about the forward corps. Right now, they have:

Baertschi-Horvat-Boeser
X-Pettersson-Eriksson
X-Sutter-Virtanen
X-Beagle-Roussel
X

Bubble: Goldobin, Granlund, Gaunce, Gagner, Schaller, Leipsic

Schaller has an injured hand. His recovery time is expected to continue into the season. This means that there are 5 players fighting for 4 spots (assuming a 13 forward rotation). With Gagner linked to CHI, it's possible that VAN can avoid losing anyone on waivers if they trade Gagner. It leaves:

Baertschi-Horvat-Boeser
Goldobin-Pettersson-Eriksson
Leipsic-Sutter-Virtanen
Gaunce-Beagle-Roussel
Granlund

Gagner traded.
Schaller injured.

A decision will have to be made when Schaller gets off the IR, but until such time, VAN will not be forced to waive a player. That's how they can start the season. Gagner for a CHI pick takes the heat off... for a time.

Love to see what Goldobin and Petterson can do together in camp and Eriksson might find some energy playing with 2 young dynamic players

Biggest player missing is Gaudette

Big question for me in camp is how EP and Gaudette look down middle, if management thinks they need to play with someone like Granlund, Gagner or Sutter.

If Gaudette Virtanen Leipsic can put a line together and Petterson can form something with Lou that makes this forward group exciting

 

[Horse McHindu]

I guarantee that Horvat will not be moved.

If the Canucks move a center this year, it will be Sutter. Why? Because - if guys like Dahlen, Gaudette, etc., prove to be NHL ready, then that 3rd line will need to more than just being a shut down (which is exactly what is right now with Sutter there).

If guys like Dahlen, Goldobin, Leipsic, and Gaudette come banging on the door, the Sutter, Baertschi, Gagner, and Granlund will be moved.

Horvat isn’t going anywhere. We aren’t trading for Karlsson, just like we never traded for Hanifin or O’Reilly. There’s a difference between making a legit offer, and kicking the tires.

 

[BROCK HUGHES]

I guarantee that Horvat will not be moved.

If the Canucks move a center this year, it will be Sutter. Why? Because - if guys like Dahlen, Gaudette, etc., prove to be NHL ready, then that 3rd line will need to more than just being a shut down (which is exactly what is right now with Sutter there).

If guys like Dahlen, Goldobin, Leipsic, and Gaudette come banging on the door, the Sutter, Baertschi, Gagner, and Granlund will be moved.

Horvat isn’t going anywhere. We aren’t trading for Karlsson, just like we never traded for Hanifin or O’Reilly. There’s a difference between making a legit offer, and kicking the tires.

Brandon Sutter is Benning franchise player and i would not be suprised to see him wearimg the C on his jersey this season.So that said,,he is not being moved by Benning.Guys i do think are on the bubble are Ganger,Goldobin,Grandlund,Hutton.The only way Sutter gets moved is if a new GM comes in and cleans house.

 

[sting101]

Brandon Sutter is Benning franchise player and i would not be suprised to see him wearimg the C on his jersey this season.So that said,,he is not being moved by Benning.Guys i do think are on the bubble are Ganger,Goldobin,Grandlund,Hutton.The only way Sutter gets moved is if a new GM comes in and cleans house.

Nope. Thats "Foundational" player

Once Pettersson and Gaudette can handle top6 and middle 6 centre ice he will be traded.

His NTC is a modified where he gets to void 15 teams starting next year and unless Beagle regressess beyond even a 4C level there is little point in both the canucks keeping a 30/31 yr old btm 6 C blocking Gaudette and Sutter wanting to stay in the twilight of his career.

 

[sting101]

Love to see what Goldobin and Petterson can do together in camp and Eriksson might find some energy playing with 2 young dynamic players

Biggest player missing is Gaudette

Big question for me in camp is how EP and Gaudette look down middle, if management thinks they need to play with someone like Granlund, Gagner or Sutter.

If Gaudette Virtanen Leipsic can put a line together and Petterson can form something with Lou that makes this forward group exciting

i know you just said camp but Pettersson would have to be lights out defensively to play with either of Goldobin or Leipsic who have both shown to be poor defensive players.

I would prefer a Baertschi- Eriksson or Dahlen-Virtanen combo or even some wing at times with Gaudette or Sutter if he can't handle it.

I certainly don't want him with Sutter beyond the start of this season if at all.........so lets hope he's the real deal.

 

[MrBojangles]

i know you just said camp but Pettersson would have to be lights out defensively to play with either of Goldobin or Leipsic who have both shown to be poor defensive players.

I would prefer a Baertschi- Eriksson or Dahlen-Virtanen combo or even some wing at times with Gaudette or Sutter if he can't handle it.

I certainly don't want him with Sutter beyond the start of this season if at all.........so lets hope he's the real deal.

Ya the first two months of the schedule are absolutely brutal, with long road trips and tons of top teams.

I don’t think that’s the time to try Petterson as a line 2 Center but as you say no one wants to see him with Sutter.

Could see Granlund or Gagner play with him to start year.

I wouldn’t mind Eriksson Granlund Petterson at least to start they year, given the schedule

Also I’d love to see EP Bo BB get a look, cause why the hell not.

 

[Gaunce4gm]

Not sure where I should post this but here is where I'm asking.

Today a Vancouver Canuck followed me on Instagram. It is a verified account and is legitimately him. I can't understand why he would follow my account but for some reason he did. Is this common? I don't follow very many players on Instagram (2 I think?) and he wasn't one of the two I followed. I followed him back, but what is the etiquette for reaching out to him? In my pipe dream I get exclusive info from him and become a Canucks insider or something ahaha

 

[Intangibos]

Not sure where I should post this but here is where I'm asking.

Today a Vancouver Canuck followed me on Instagram. It is a verified account and is legitimately him. I can't understand why he would follow my account but for some reason he did. Is this common? I don't follow very many players on Instagram (2 I think?) and he wasn't one of the two I followed. I followed him back, but what is the etiquette for reaching out to him? In my pipe dream I get exclusive info from him and become a Canucks insider or something ahaha

Maybe he likes your swimsuit pics and wants to see more? Give him a taste in his inbox and see if you get a surprise in your box later

In reality he's probably not specifically trying to reach out, not to burst your bubble. Unless he's also following very few people he likely just wants to increase his network size or whatever the f*** you kids do on Instagram.

 

[racerjoe]

Not sure where I should post this but here is where I'm asking.

Today a Vancouver Canuck followed me on Instagram. It is a verified account and is legitimately him. I can't understand why he would follow my account but for some reason he did. Is this common? I don't follow very many players on Instagram (2 I think?) and he wasn't one of the two I followed. I followed him back, but what is the etiquette for reaching out to him? In my pipe dream I get exclusive info from him and become a Canucks insider or something ahaha

How many people does he follow? If it is a high number and he is just trying to get followers then you have your answer.

 

[Gaunce4gm]

How many people does he follow? If it is a high number and he is just trying to get followers then you have your answer.

He follows less than 4000 people and has 18.4K people following him.

 

[Gaunce4gm]

Maybe he likes your swimsuit pics and wants to see more? Give him a taste in his inbox and see if you get a surprise in your box later

In reality he's probably not specifically trying to reach out, not to burst your bubble. Unless he's also following very few people he likely just wants to increase his network size or whatever the **** you kids do on Instagram.

I'm a dude so I highly doubt it's my bathing suit photos. He also has a girlfriend in his photos. It's possible that he thought MY girlfriend is attractive but then why wouldn't he just follow her?

 

[JuniorNelson]

This is kind of creepy.

Has he driven past your house?

 

[Bleach Clean]

Absolutely right. I came to the same conclusion albeit for a different reason. Assuming Horvat has a similar year / trends upwards, there's no reason to trade him now unless it is for a gross overpayment (which almost never happens at the end of the off-season). Similarly, Horvat's trade value will be the same if not better at the end of the 2018/19 season so there's no reason for him to be traded right now as it is.

Pick volume does get you in a position to trade for the #1 pick though. Definitely not 6 picks in the top 60 for one, seeing as teams like to stay in the top tier if possible. Here's a list of draft day deals involving top 5 picks since 1999:

1999 - TB trades #1OA to Vancouver for #4OA, 75OA and 88OA (Tampa eventually traded out of the first round entirely)
- Atlanta traded a 3rd rounder to move up from 2nd to 1st as they were hosting the draft and wanted to make a splash
- Vancouver traded Bryan McCabe and a 2000 or 2001 1st to Chicago for #4OA. Chicago's pick turned out to be 11th OA in 2000
2000 - NYI trades Kevin Weekes, Kristian Kudroc, 2nd for #5OA, 4th rd, 7th rd
2001 - NYI trades #2OA, Chara and Muckalt for Yashin
2002 - CBJ trades #3 OA and the option to swap first rounders in 2003 to FLA for #1 OA (not exercised)
- Flyers trade Fedotenko, 2x 2nd for #4OA
2003 - PIT trades #3OA, 2nd for #1OA, 3rd
2004 - CAR trades #8OA, 2nd for #4OA
2008 - TOR trades #7OA, 3rd, 2nd 2009 for #5

So it seems that you need to have at least a top 8 pick to even consider trading into the top 5, unless you're willing to give up young, good roster players in a package (McCabe, Weekes, Fedotenko).

Assuming the Canucks get the #6 pick in the draft, and the team holding #1 pick is willing to trade it, the price to move up to #1 has been historically quite reasonable. Assume that Tanev has equivalent value to McCabe, and Colorado or Buffalo wins the 1st OA pick, teams that don't necessarily need another C, I could see a deal where the Canucks move up from #6 to #1 simply by including Tanev and a late first or a pair of 2nds. That would be a package that blows all the other past deals out of the water, would exceed what was offered for Eichel (11/12/13) and would unite the Hughes bros for the next 8 years.

First, kudos on the homework shown. Much appreciated.

While I understand why you would conclude the premise that moving up to #1 was "quite reasonable" in previous drafts, the data actually shows it to be a rare occurrence historically speaking. The larger data set is all drafts. If we place the two times it happened (1999 and 2003) against the backdrop of the past 20 drafts, that illustrates its rarity. Further, comparing one of the weakest drafts in recent memory (1999) and a draft where a goalie went #1 (2003) is not quite apples to apples. There is a franchise changing forward available at the top of this draft. There is little debate that he is coveted and will go #1.

Anyways, Horvat is tradeable at the end of the year. They have to draft a C in this year's draft and Pettersson has to convert to 1C. These things have to happen first. If they don't happen, he doesn't get moved.

 

[Gaunce4gm]

This is kind of creepy.

Has he driven past your house?

Doubtful

 

[DomY]

First, kudos on the homework shown. Much appreciated.

While I understand why you would conclude the premise that moving up to #1 was "quite reasonable" in previous drafts, the data actually shows it to be a rare occurrence historically speaking. The larger data set is all drafts. If we place the two times it happened (1999 and 2003) against the backdrop of the past 20 drafts, that illustrates its rarity. Further, comparing one of the weakest drafts in recent memory (1999) and a draft where a goalie went #1 (2003) is not quite apples to apples. There is a franchise changing forward available at the top of this draft. There is little debate that he is coveted and will go #1.

Anyways, Horvat is tradeable at the end of the year. They have to draft a C in this year's draft and Pettersson has to convert to 1C. These things have to happen first. If they don't happen, he doesn't get moved.

This is absolutely the real winning argument in my arbitrary test case to trade for J. Hughes. Thinking about this the other way around, there's very little chance that any team that had the 1OA pick and had the opportunity to draft a Stamkos, Tavares, Mackinnon, and Matthews caliber center prospect wouldn't pull the trigger. The same goes for a E. Staal, Malkin, Seguin, Eichel as the top C taken with the 2OA pick. Based on my limited viewing I believe J. Hughes is at least in this tier. At minimum he is ahead of the next tier of center prospects (Duchene, Johansen, Turris, J. Staal, Backstrom, Brassard, Schenn, RNH, Huberdeau, Galchenyuk) and possibly on par with Toews, Barkov, and Dubois (in terms of how their team's value them at the draft).

Needless to say it you've convinced me. It would take much more than a low first and a very good dman on a one year deal to move from Top-5 to 1OA. And as others have said, given the quality of the 2019 draft, it might be better just to hold on to all the assets gathered than cash them all in for J. Hughes. Say two of Kakko, Newhook and Cozens would do wonders to any team.

It's been a fun exercise though. Maybe we will revisit it in the event the Canucks pick, say, 2OA.