Prospect Info: 2018 NHL Draft / Pick #9 - Vitali Kravtsov (RW) - Part IV

[Harbour Dog]

One of the nuances that’s not being mentioned here is that Kravtsov likely wouldn’t be getting as much ice time as he is in Traktor if he was on a stronger team. And possibly not with the quality of line mates, though of course a better team means a deeper team so maybe still good line mates.

Yup, it's a balance that is different in every situation. Although, I would say that the least affected part of the equation is probably QOT, for the reason you mentioned above. In general, guys are going to get slotted with similarly skilled players (5v5).

In Kravtsov's case, he's getting more TOI than he would somewhere else, as well as increased opportunity on the PP (although with less skilled guys than if he was earning that PP time on a stronger team).

I think somebody mentioned it above, but Buch is an extreme case that shows just how big a difference it can make. He went from being the guy with Cherepovets to being a depth piece for SKA, and his numbers dropped a little, but nothing drastic. If he had had more opportunity to acclimate and perhaps earn more TOI, then he probably would of gotten back to a similar production.

There's enough moving parts on professional teams that, until I see games for myself and get a better feel for the teams, I'm willing to throw aside the environment that guys are producing in.

 

[GlasgowNewYorkRanger]

Be really intriguing to see him at C. Might be destined for the wing but if he was to become an elite playmaking C! Wowzer.

 

[kovazub94]

Kunlun team lost its games in hand and now is virtually tied with Traktor for the last 8th playoff spot in the KHL East.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Kunlun team lost its games in hand and now is virtually tied with Traktor for the last 8th playoff spot in the KHL East.

Not good.

 

[kovazub94]

Not good.

Eh, I will take KHL playoff games as a better quality, intensity etc experience for a prospect than a regular season AHL game.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Not good.

Actually it is, for Kravtsov.

Traktor went 4-1-0 in their last 5
Kunlun went 0-3-2 in their last 5

The tide is turning. Traktor has the following schedule:

17 dec: @ Neftekhimik
19 dec: @ Nizhny Novgorod
21 dec: @ AK Bars
23 dec: @ Avto
26 dec: vs Dinamo Minsk

Kunlun has 5 home games now:

17 dec: vs Amur
18 dec: vs Amur
20 dec: vs Dynamo Moscow
23 dec: vs Vityaz
25 dec: vs SKA

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I don't care when he goes to NA. He won't play for the Rangers this season anyway. KHL experience is better than AHL experience

 

[One Winged Angel]

Eh, I will take KHL playoff games as a better quality, intensity etc experience for a prospect than a regular season AHL game.

Actually it is, for Kravtsov.

Traktor went 4-1-0 in their last 5
Kunlun went 0-3-2 in their last 5

The tide is turning. Traktor has the following schedule:

17 dec: @ Neftekhimik
19 dec: @ Nizhny Novgorod
21 dec: @ AK Bars
23 dec: @ Avto
26 dec: vs Dinamo Minsk

Kunlun has 5 home games now:

17 dec: vs Amur
18 dec: vs Amur
20 dec: vs Dynamo Moscow
23 dec: vs Vityaz
25 dec: vs SKA

The adjustment is key. Him getting time to adjust is important.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

The adjustment is key. Him getting time to adjust is important.

Adjust to what? Rink size? They play on different sized rinks in the KHL, he played on NA-sized rinks in Hodonin and will do so again in Vancouver next week. Rink-size is just a myth. Physical play? Meh. Playing 3 games in 3 days and then not play all week is not the best way for a teenager to develop

He has nothing to learn in the AHL. Let him stay in the KHL

 

[One Winged Angel]

Adjust to what? Rink size? They play on different sized rinks in the KHL, he played on NA-sized rinks in Hodonin and will do so again in Vancouver next week. Rink-size is just a myth. Physical play? Meh. Playing 3 games in 3 days and then not play all week is not the best way for a teenager to develop

He has nothing to learn in the AHL. Let him stay in the KHL

Both. Saying he has nothing to learn is short-sighted. Playing on an NA sized rink for 7-10 games and then going back to Olympic size doesn't help. Rink size isn't a myth. As someone who's played on both, trust me, it's not.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Both. Saying he has nothing to learn is short-sighted. Playing on an NA sized rink for 7-10 games and then going back to Olympic size doesn't help. Rink size isn't a myth. As someone who's played on both, trust me, it's not.

He plays on smaller rinks in the KHL as well, FYI. Not every KHL team plays on Olympic sized rinks. Kuznetsov played in the KHL for 4 years after being drafted, and he walked into the NHL without needing time in the AHL to "adjust". It's a myth

 

[One Winged Angel]

He plays on smaller rinks in the KHL as well, FYI. Not every KHL team plays on Olympic sized rinks. Kuznetsov played in the KHL for 4 years after being drafted, and he walked into the NHL without needing time in the AHL to "adjust". It's a myth

Ok, not every rink size is the same, that's fair. However, attempting to use Kuznetsov as the Be-all, end-all example when he clearly didn't have success until his 3rd season is a pretty faulty argument to use.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Ok, not every rink size is the same, that's fair. However, attempting to use Kuznetsov as the Be-all, end-all example when he clearly didn't have success until his 3rd season is a pretty fault argument to use.

77 points in his 2nd full season is not success apparently.

 

[One Winged Angel]

77 points in his 2nd full season is not success apparently.

Second full, but his third season playing over here. So yes, it is, but having those 17 games the first year over helped. He didn't go back and play in Russia again. He needed time to adjust. It's not a myth. Clearly, the numbers show it in my favor.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Second full, but his third season playing over here. So yes, it is, but having those 17 games the first year over helped. He didn't go back and play in Russia again. He needed time to adjust. It's not a myth. Clearly, the numbers show it in my favor.

He played a handful of games in 2013-14. He came over after the KHL season. Are you honestly counting that as his 1st season? Okay then. Let's put it this way:

2014-15 was his rookie year. Since he played fewer than 26 games the previous season.

In his R+1 season, he had 77 points. He didn't need time to adjust in the AHL. He was fine. Same with Tarasenko. I can name a bunch more who made it to the NHL without going through the AHL first. If the plan is to have him in the AHL, it's better to just leave him in the KHL. This isn't like Chytil who came from an inferior league (Czech Extraliga). The KHL is a better league than the AHL, especially for the development of top prospects if they are getting their ice time.

 

[One Winged Angel]

He played a handful of games in 2013-14. He came over after the KHL season. Are you honestly counting that as his 1st season? Okay then. Let's put it this way:

2014-15 was his rookie year. Since he played fewer than 26 games the previous season.

In his R+1 season, he had 77 points. He didn't need time to adjust in the AHL. He was fine. Same with Tarasenko. I can name a bunch more who made it to the NHL without going through the AHL first. If the plan is to have him in the AHL, it's better to just leave him in the KHL. This isn't like Chytil who came from an inferior league (Czech Extraliga). The KHL is a better league than the AHL, especially for the development of top prospects if they are getting their ice time.

So you mean to tell me having those 17 games did nothing for him? I don't buy that at all.

Also, you then use Tarasenko who was in the same boat as Kuznetsov. Someone who didn't go through the AHL and wasn't an impact player right away. You're telling me that he wouldn't have benefitted from a little time to adjust?

I don't buy it at all. I'll agree to disagree with you here. Neither of us is changing the other's mind. I do agree that the competition is better in the KHL, but having that experience in terms of playing on a smaller rink and a more physical game is an element that you're undervaluing quite a bit, in my opinion.

 

[Graves94]

Kuznetsov, Tarasenko and Panarin all went in to the NHL with pretty stacked teams, with much better centers on each of those teams.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I hope Traktor makes it in and goes on an unprecedented run.

I don't trust our FO not to burn a year on his contract. Take that decision out of their hands.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

So you mean to tell me having those 17 games did nothing for him? I don't buy that at all.

Also, you then use Tarasenko who was in the same boat as Kuznetsov. Someone who didn't go through the AHL and wasn't an impact player right away. You're telling me that he wouldn't have benefitted from a little time to adjust?

I don't buy it at all. I'll agree to disagree with you here. Neither of us is changing the other's mind. I do agree that the competition is better in the KHL, but having that experience in terms of playing on a smaller rink and a more physical game is an element that you're undervaluing quite a bit, in my opinion.

Nicklas Backstrom
Anze Kopitar
Artemi Panarin
Elias Pettersson
Pavel Datsyuk
Alex Semin
Henrik Zetterberg
Jakob Silfverberg *
Victor Hedman

There are so many examples of players who come over and jump straight in the NHL without "adjusting to the toughness in the AHL first". Players who end up in the AHL are simply not good enough yet for the NHL. They don't go there to get used to the physical play. And if a 19-year old Kravtsov is going to play in the AHL, it is not going to do anything for his development. Especially with the ridiculous 3 games in 3 days-schedule they have now.

* Only played in the AHL because of the lock-out

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I hope Traktor makes it in and goes on an unprecedented run.

I don't trust our FO not to burn a year on his contract. Take that decision out of their hands.

Remember: No 9-game slide rule for Kravtsov.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Nicklas Backstrom
Anze Kopitar
Artemi Panarin
Elias Pettersson
Pavel Datsyuk
Alex Semin
Henrik Zetterberg
Jakob Silfverberg *
Victor Hedman

There are so many examples of players who come over and jump straight in the NHL without "adjusting to the toughness in the AHL first". Players who end up in the AHL are simply not good enough yet for the NHL. They don't go there to get used to the physical play. And if a 19-year old Kravtsov is going to play in the AHL, it is not going to do anything for his development. Especially with the ridiculous 3 games in 3 days-schedule they have now.

* Only played in the AHL because of the lock-out

Datsyuk didn't have success immediately. He played on Detroit's 4th line in 02. He wasn't a key factor.

Semin? He came over in 03 and then stayed an extra year in Russia after the lockout ended. A terrible example to use. Obviously, he didn't adjust well.

I don't know why you used Silfverberg, it took him until his 3rd season to break the 30 point mark. That doesn't exactly help your point either.

Panarin got put with Kane and succeeded.

Hedman? It took Hedman 5 YEARS to become the defender he is today. I'm not saying the AHL would or would not have made a difference, but that's not a great example either.

Kopitar, Pettersson and Zetterberg you're definitely right about, but funny enough, all 3 of them played in the SEL, which is a different style of game from the KHL.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Datsyuk didn't have success immediately. He played on Detroit's 4th line in 02. He wasn't a key factor.

Semin? He came over in 03 and then stayed an extra year in Russia after the lockout ended. A terrible example to use. Obviously, he didn't adjust well.

I don't know why you used Silfverberg, it took him until his 3rd season to break the 30 point mark. That doesn't exactly help your point either.

Panarin got put with Kane and succeeded.

Hedman? It took Hedman 5 YEARS to become the defender he is today. I'm not saying the AHL would or would not have made a difference, but that's not a great example either.

Kopitar, Pettersson and Zetterberg you're definitely right about, but funny enough, all 3 of them played in the SEL, which is a different style of game from the KHL.

The SHL is even less physical than the KHL.

Nobody said they are stars immediately, but they were good enough to stick with the NHL team. They had no problem "adjusting" to the tough style of hockey. It's a BS reason to bring a player over.

 

[One Winged Angel]

The SHL is even less physical than the KHL.

Nobody said they are stars immediately, but they were good enough to stick with the NHL team. They had no problem "adjusting" to the tough style of hockey. It's a BS reason to bring a player over.

That's still adjusting, if they're not. I don't expect Kravtsov to be one immediately, but if coming over and playing games at the end of the season over here can help him, then I'm all for it.

You don't have to be, but don't act like there's no period because someone stayed up with the team. You have to learn how to be a pro over here.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

That's still adjusting, if they're not. I don't expect Kravtsov to be one immediately, but if coming over and playing games at the end of the season over here can help him, then I'm all for it.

You don't have to be, but don't act like there's no period because someone stayed up with the team. You have to learn how to be a pro over here.

They didn't learn in the AHL. The AHL is on par with the SHL and inferior to the KHL. There just isn't a valid reason quality-wise to have Kravtsov come over to play in the AHL.

I hope he stays in Russia for at least another year. The "tough hockey" aspect is overrated, same as the rink size argument

 

[One Winged Angel]

They didn't learn in the AHL. The AHL is on par with the SHL and inferior to the KHL. There just isn't a valid reason quality-wise to have Kravtsov come over to play in the AHL.

I hope he stays in Russia for at least another year.

I didn't say they learned in the AHL. I said they still needed adjustment. Now, you're moving the goalposts.

I also never said the skill level in the AHL and SEL was great than the KHL. I said it was different stylistically and it's more comparable to a North American game and in the case of the AHL, the rink size is NA across the board, unlike the KHL which varies, as you pointed out.

I don't think another year in Russian would hurt Kravtsov. However, if Traktor is eliminated, I would love to see him over here.