2018 Free Agent and Trade Thread - News? Hello? Please give us news
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Kadri has one of the best contracts in the NHL, he's going nowhere. Gardiner, is not getting traded either, unless he returns a player whom can fill the right side and is under control for longer which isn't going to happen.
It's just not worth the risk at this point. The Leafs spent their last two 1st and 2nd rounders on D for a reason, let's just be patient. There's one hole left and it will get filled.
It's just not worth the risk at this point. The Leafs spent their last two 1st and 2nd rounders on D for a reason, let's just be patient. There's one hole left and it will get filled.
If you live strictly on buy low, sell high, you could argue that you should sell Matthews and Marner now since they may never be more valuable than while they are still on their ELCs. Once they're on their big contracts, it could have a negative impact on their resale value.
Resale value has little significance if you're not planning to sell. If Kadri is a long-term piece, his resale value is a secondary consideration. The primary consideration is winning hockey games, and he helps the Leafs do that.
I'm a believer in asset management and I don't like that we've done a poor job of that with certain players recently. However, those players were nearing UFA and were generally replaceable (with JVR at least somewhat of an exception). Kadri is not that at all. In the cap era, you NEED players on "value" contracts, otherwise you won't be able to compete.
SeaOfBlue
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It doesn't matter when the trade is made. It's still a bad deal for the Leafs regardless. Gardiner is more valuable than Yandle simply because he is younger, actually better and more reliable defensively (as hard as that is to believe), and still puts up similar production as him. We could re-sign for Gardiner for a better contract. Kadri for McCann is an even bigger joke. This actually makes our team worse at both ends of the ice, and it's not even like we get a bonafide young player out of it.
McCann is the same size as Kadri, and he's nowhere near as gritty as Kadri. As far as I have known him, he's always been a two-way playmaking type center. Considering he's only averaging 57 hits in an 82 game season, the stats back that up. Unless those are 57 bonecrunching hits... Which I doubt. So we downgrade on there too, because Kadri averages over twice that in a season and a lot of them are pretty heavy. The Leafs may lack some size and toughness up front, but they have a lot of hard working forwards, and since they just traded Matt Martin for pretty much nothing but cap space without any sort of clear replacement for him, it's not like the Leafs are placing a high priority on it right now. The Leafs also let go of Polak, Soshnikov and Komarov over the course of the year. Those 4 were our toughest players by far, and now they are all gone.
And I say it again.. Yandle would bring leadership into the locker room and give our current defensive core, someone to follow and respect. the dude's only 31... hasn't missed a game in what? 550+ games? he's a tank!
We are stacked in the farm.. we have youth for days.. If the first 40 games are not what is expected, I think a trade like this will come. and Kadri will be the first on the chopping block... he's officially more valuable as trade bait, than producing points on the ice.
The Leafs do not lack leadership in the room or on defense. Plus the Leafs could poach a bunch of guys from FA who have plenty of leadership intangibles.
Finally, I do not see what our farm has to do with anything, but nobody on there comes close to replacing what Kadri provides. Not only does he provide a crap ton of goals and points (contrary to your point), but he's also one of the best at shutting down top competition in the NHL. He's good enough to be a 1C on some teams, and yet he's being dealt for a guy who shouldn't be more than a 4C on any sort of good team right now.
If our first 40 games suck, we will probably sell off Gardiner, but it'll be for pure futures. No way the Leafs would ever consider doing a deal like this. It's 100% against what Dubas wants to do.
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
Simplify it and just trade for McCann.
He can’t be worth that much, since he only looks to be a 4th-3rd line tweener. Dubas has a bit of a history with him too
He can’t be worth that much, since he only looks to be a 4th-3rd line tweener. Dubas has a bit of a history with him too
SeaOfBlue
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He's also looking a lot like a LW. His faceoff numbers are putrid. Even bad or guys new to faceoffs are better than he is.
Even then, I am not sure he really makes sense over the other guys the Leafs have in their lineup. He makes more sense in Florida than he does here.
Canada4Gold
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Nithoniniel
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A trade that offers us a downgrade on defense along with a bad contract, and a huge downgrade at center at the same time, with no other gains?
This is a no brainer, of course we should do that. I'm also interested in a potential Lucic for Marner trade.
And somehow the rationale is that we should get grittier... by exchanging soft d-men and getting a less gritty center than the one we give up.
This is a no brainer, of course we should do that. I'm also interested in a potential Lucic for Marner trade.
And somehow the rationale is that we should get grittier... by exchanging soft d-men and getting a less gritty center than the one we give up.
Morgs
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Pysyk seems like a smart add. Seems a low-event stable kinda guy that could play a simple game beside one of Reilly or Dermott.
Going back to Winnipeg for a minute....most argue that Gards for Myers is a downgrade, but that Myers might be a solid fit. I’m remembering the best rugged version of Kulikov, and wondering if there might not be better fit if the deal is bigger....maybe Gardiner/Holl or Carrick for Kulikov and Myers?
Myers can play alongside Reilly, low event style.
Kulikov likewise alongside Zaitsev.
Leaves Dermott with Carrick and Hainsey, with Rosen/Ozhi pushing up.
But of a hit to their D this year, offset by the money savings on Kulikov next year when WINN needs to shake some money free.
Going back to Winnipeg for a minute....most argue that Gards for Myers is a downgrade, but that Myers might be a solid fit. I’m remembering the best rugged version of Kulikov, and wondering if there might not be better fit if the deal is bigger....maybe Gardiner/Holl or Carrick for Kulikov and Myers?
Myers can play alongside Reilly, low event style.
Kulikov likewise alongside Zaitsev.
Leaves Dermott with Carrick and Hainsey, with Rosen/Ozhi pushing up.
But of a hit to their D this year, offset by the money savings on Kulikov next year when WINN needs to shake some money free.
showtime8
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Do you think Justin Holl plays half the season with the Leafs as their #7? Or is it someone else?
nuck
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I don't think he is above the two Swedes in the depth chart and if they add a RD that puts Hainsey back on the left side. If Gards is moved that still doesn't help him this year unless they have injuries. He might be okay but not get a chance to show it.
SeaOfBlue
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Holl is entrenched as the #7 option on the RD as of right now in my books. #8 if you count Liljegren: Hainsey, Zaitsev, Ozhiganov, Carrick, Marincin, Rosen, Liljegren, Holl. So being the #7 of both LD and RD is not going to happen, because he's behind Rielly, Gardiner, Dermott and Borgman as well. He pretty much just beats out Nielsen, Subban and LoVerde right now, and he's purely AHL depth.
So I am going to say it's likely someone else.
SeaOfBlue
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The Leafs would not be in the market for a top 4 defenseman all of these years if Gardiner-Rielly was ever going to happen. It's never going to happen, because it's not a good pairing.
Also, Zaitsev would be in the top 4 before Pysyk, and we would have guys who would play bottom pairing that would make acquiring Pysyk generally unnecessary. At least until Ozhiganov proves himself to be worthless.
Rosen, Borgman and Ozhiganov are all exempt from waivers, and are most likely to start the season with the Marlies as a result, in my opinion (barring huge training camps, obviously).
Holl would have to clear waivers, and is better pressbox fodder than the kids who should probably be seeing as much ice as possible. Also, Marincin and Rosen are both lefties, so I don't think they'll be competing with Carrick/Holl/Ozhiganov as much as they'll be competing with each other/Borgman.
Taking everything into consideration (and, of course, barring any additional moves), I'll actually be a little surprised if Holl doesn't crack Dubas' final 23-man roster.
Nithoniniel
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I don't understand the reasoning here. If Leafs had gone to a Gardiner - Rielly pairing, we'd totally lack any quality on our second pairing. We'd still need a top four d-man. We'd arguably need one even more, as we now need someone who can drive that second pairing, and not just play a competent complementary role.
As for it not being a good pairing, it's had tremendous results when tried.
Beleafer4
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SeaOfBlue
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Ozhiganov may be exempt from waivers, but it is highly unlikely that he is sent down. If the roster stays as it is, he could actually have the inside track for the bottom pairing job over Carrick. It's more likely he would ask to be sent back to the KHL than accept an assignment to the AHL, as well as it is more likely than Holl getting claimed by someone if he's put on waivers. Nobody is going to claim an AHL veteran without any sort of major upside, and if they do, it's not really a huge loss for the Leafs or Marlies since they are already going to struggle to get a bunch of RD ice time without sending them somewhere else.
Marincin and Rosen both play RD as well as LD, so they will be competing for those jobs as well. Especially if they are much better than their competition.
Holl should not be on that roster. Even if you disclude guys who are waiver exempt, there are still 7 guys better than him on our roster right now, and that's excluding getting anyone new.
SeaOfBlue
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Over the course of about 100 minutes of almost pure offensive ice time in like 5 years. 3 different coaches refused to put that pairing together for a prolonged period of time, including our current one. And despite rarely playing together, I still remember times when they were far from a tremendous pairing, which is shocking considering they rarely play together.
As for the top 4, the Leafs would probably just end up using Dermott or Hainsey at that point. Or they would have signed Hamhuis who can play 2nd pairing LD. The problem is not getting someone to play 2nd pairing, it's getting someone reliable to play with Rielly. That's why trading Gardiner to get a top 4 RD is often proposed, and there is usually no complementary deal (outside of maybe signing Hamhuis) to replace Gardiner after he's traded. If Gardiner was reliable enough to play top pairing with Rielly, we would almost certainly not need to look for another defenseman to add to the group.
I’ve said this in the past and Friedman also voiced his opinion that Toronto might be a player for Panarin strictly as a rental.
If he gets to the deadline, it makes sense for Columbus and Toronto. This is one of the years where we can go all in before the raises start after next season.
Getting Panarin would give us three first line combinations.
Matthews and Nylander, Tavares and Marner and Panarin and Kadri. His cap hit at the deadline will easily fit into the Leafs and we can be primed for a massive run. I’d give up a first round pick and a little more for Panarin as a rental and let him walk after.
If Zaitsev doesn’t rebound, we could even look at trading him (he makes too little and there are enough dumb GMs in the league that will take him for a good return with 5 years left on his term) and then we would have some money to sign even Panarin (If he wants to stay, we can try to make it work, he would be our third best player) if the cap goes up a couple million and we get some good RFA deals.
If he gets to the deadline, it makes sense for Columbus and Toronto. This is one of the years where we can go all in before the raises start after next season.
Getting Panarin would give us three first line combinations.
Matthews and Nylander, Tavares and Marner and Panarin and Kadri. His cap hit at the deadline will easily fit into the Leafs and we can be primed for a massive run. I’d give up a first round pick and a little more for Panarin as a rental and let him walk after.
If Zaitsev doesn’t rebound, we could even look at trading him (he makes too little and there are enough dumb GMs in the league that will take him for a good return with 5 years left on his term) and then we would have some money to sign even Panarin (If he wants to stay, we can try to make it work, he would be our third best player) if the cap goes up a couple million and we get some good RFA deals.
Nithoniniel
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They've had much more than that together, and it's been fairly ordinary usage and not purely offensive from what I've seen.
We actually have a few quotes for why this pairing has not been a thing, and it hasn't had to do with it being a bad pairing. Babcock for example said that they need a driver on the ice as often as possible, so putting our only ones on the top pairing together didn't make sense.
They would use Dermott right now, yeah. That's a good option, and the first time we've had that luxury. That's why going into next season might be the first time this is a legitimate option for us. We haven't had options before that wouldn't have been a disaster on a second pairing without a clear driver. Hainsey? We'd likely have the worst second pairing in the league in that case.
The Gardiner trade talk seem to be about balance, as we now have three top four LDs, and his contract is expiring.
I’m not very good at trade value so I’ll ask you guys, how far off am I
Kapanen, Dermott and a 2019 2nd for Trouba
Would that be enough from the leafs or does it have to be Nylander/Marner to get him. Not sure I’d trade one of Nylander or Marner for him personally though.
Kapanen, Dermott and a 2019 2nd for Trouba
Would that be enough from the leafs or does it have to be Nylander/Marner to get him. Not sure I’d trade one of Nylander or Marner for him personally though.
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