Speculation: 2018-2019 Sharks Roster Discussion Part II

[Pinkfloyd]

^^^^This is a much more likely option to explore.

Assumptions
- Vlasic is going to draw back in over Ryan at the earliest chance. You might not like it but it is going to happen
- Burns and EK65 shouldn't play more than 25-26 minutes per game as an average.

When healthy do you shift some of the Ozone starts to Vlasic and in turn shift the Dzone starts to EK65? Basically, do you stop treating the Vlasic pairing as a shutdown group and instead play them like a solid 3rd pairing that doesn't need sheltering?

Yes and no. Yes you shift some of the d-zone responsibilities to Karlsson and move somewhat away from treating Vlasic as the shutdown guy. But no not like a solid 3rd pairing that doesn't need sheltering. With the talent here and the problems we're facing with those assumptions, I'm a fan of not really having defined pairings at this point. Burns and Karlsson are playing at a level that their partners just don't matter. We can acknowledge that Simek and Dillon are playing well alongside them and also understand that it's largely because of who they are playing with. We can also acknowledge that Vlasic is crappy. The solution isn't to continue playing him with Braun so you're left with two other players to pair him up with and I think both should be used. While Vlasic-Burns didn't have a lot of time together and that time wasn't great, it also wasn't bad. And even Vlasic-Karlsson with Vlasic sucking wasn't as bad as it was suggested. The team, I think, overreacted to team losses when it came to assessing how well that pairing actually did. It had some things to work out but it wasn't as if there wasn't positives to it. And now that both Karlsson and Burns are better than the last times they played with Vlasic, I think they can mask his current deficiencies well, still produce, and maybe get Vlasic on the right track. I get that people were seeing some selfish plays from Vlasic and I don't disagree with that view but sometimes you have to let it play itself out.

If after trying numerous things where Vlasic is playing the occasional shifts with Burns and Karlsson and no discernible progress is being made, the only option left is to trade Braun, staple Vlasic to the hip of Tim Heed for the remainder of this season and whoever would win that spot next season, and shelter them. At least in that scenario, Vlasic is forced to go to the mindset that he has to babysit who he plays with and either changes his game, likely for the better, or requests a trade.

 

[Chimpradamus]

Yes and no. Yes you shift some of the d-zone responsibilities to Karlsson and move somewhat away from treating Vlasic as the shutdown guy. But no not like a solid 3rd pairing that doesn't need sheltering. With the talent here and the problems we're facing with those assumptions, I'm a fan of not really having defined pairings at this point. Burns and Karlsson are playing at a level that their partners just don't matter. We can acknowledge that Simek and Dillon are playing well alongside them and also understand that it's largely because of who they are playing with. We can also acknowledge that Vlasic is crappy. The solution isn't to continue playing him with Braun so you're left with two other players to pair him up with and I think both should be used. While Vlasic-Burns didn't have a lot of time together and that time wasn't great, it also wasn't bad. And even Vlasic-Karlsson with Vlasic sucking wasn't as bad as it was suggested. The team, I think, overreacted to team losses when it came to assessing how well that pairing actually did. It had some things to work out but it wasn't as if there wasn't positives to it. And now that both Karlsson and Burns are better than the last times they played with Vlasic, I think they can mask his current deficiencies well, still produce, and maybe get Vlasic on the right track. I get that people were seeing some selfish plays from Vlasic and I don't disagree with that view but sometimes you have to let it play itself out.

If after trying numerous things where Vlasic is playing the occasional shifts with Burns and Karlsson and no discernible progress is being made, the only option left is to trade Braun, staple Vlasic to the hip of Tim Heed for the remainder of this season and whoever would win that spot next season, and shelter them. At least in that scenario, Vlasic is forced to go to the mindset that he has to babysit who he plays with and either changes his game, likely for the better, or requests a trade.

The only reason to try Vlasic with either Karlsson or Burns again, is if Vlasic makes a pinky promise not to go:

when he gets the puck.

Even though Vlasic might have lost a step in his strides, that's no excuse for him looking so lost, so many times. When he played with Karlsson, he was far too aggressive with the puck and in his game, he played like he was Karlsson, not like he was himself. He wanted to dictate the offensive push, instead of giving the frigging puck to the guy better than him - or anybody else - at it. I don't know how many unscreened muffins he fired, but they were far too many and it almost looked borderline intentional he didn't pass the puck to Karlsson sometimes.

I do agree with you that the Karlsson - Vlasic struggles were overblown defensively, because they had some serious misfortune with puck bounces and Jones not being able to stop a beach ball a couple of games, specifically when they were on the ice. But, as long as Vlasic can't accept his responsibility for winning games, where he is put in the media shadow of his partner, he should be in the dog house.

I'm on the boat claiming Vlasic's problems should be mostly mental and I wonder if Vlasic thinks his ego or winning a cup is more important. I do acknowledge I might be completely wrong though, of course, it's just... it just looked SO wrong how Vlasic played paired with Karlsson. It shouldn't be able to happen, considering what Vlasic has shown of his qualities in his career.

 

[Pavelski2112]

Vlasic just forgot what his role was. Either he's trying to be Burns/Karlsson, or someone told him to be more aggressive offensively. He's playing conflicted.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

The only reason to try Vlasic with either Karlsson or Burns again, is if Vlasic makes a pinky promise not to go:

Even though Vlasic might have lost a step in his strides, that's no excuse for him looking so lost, so many times. When he played with Karlsson, he was far too aggressive with the puck and in his game, he played like he was Karlsson, not like he was himself. He wanted to dictate the offensive push, instead of giving the frigging puck to the guy better than him - or anybody else - at it. I don't know how many unscreened muffins he fired, but they were far too many.

I do agree with you that the Karlsson - Vlasic struggles were overblown, because they had some serious misfortune with puck bounces and Jones not being able to stop a beach ball a couple of games, specifically when they were on the ice. But, as long as Vlasic can't accept his responsibility for winning games, where he is put in the media shadow of his partner, he should be in the dog house.

I'm on the boat claiming Vlasic's problems should be mostly mental and I wonder if Vlasic thinks he or winning a cup is more important. I do acknowledge I might be completely wrong though, of course.

It was understandable to me that Vlasic would struggle transitioning to deferring more to his partner offensively than he did before but I feel like he still can make that happen with enough time. His role with Braun was interesting because he would often defer to Braun to break the puck out but he would often be the guy they go to at the point to either pinch for offensive opportunities, granted still rare, or just for point shots. That was the part that he needed to change and had yet to do so. I agree regarding what to do with how he sees his responsibilities on the ice. I just think it's something that will work itself out and it's in everyone's best interest to at this point do what we can to get Vlasic going since he's very likely not going anywhere soon and he's a damn good player to have if he's playing right and playing right with someone like Karlsson or Burns when necessary.

 

[Chimpradamus]

It was understandable to me that Vlasic would struggle transitioning to deferring more to his partner offensively than he did before but I feel like he still can make that happen with enough time. His role with Braun was interesting because he would often defer to Braun to break the puck out but he would often be the guy they go to at the point to either pinch for offensive opportunities, granted still rare, or just for point shots. That was the part that he needed to change and had yet to do so. I agree regarding what to do with how he sees his responsibilities on the ice. I just think it's something that will work itself out and it's in everyone's best interest to at this point do what we can to get Vlasic going since he's very likely not going anywhere soon and he's a damn good player to have if he's playing right and playing right with someone like Karlsson or Burns when necessary.

If Vlasic can understand his role, that he is the Dillon or the Braun on the team, only he is a franchise player at doing it - and is paid for such, things would be just fine. Defend the net, get the puck, give the puck to the long haired beast next to you, regardless if it's the pirate or the brute. Let them do their thing and cover up. No, no! Don't take puck matters into your own hands!

Dillon and Braun appreciate playing with Karlsson and Burns. Vlasic doesn't. He doesn't like it and that has to be handled.

The roster could coast to a high seed playoff, by just giving the puck to Karlsson or Burns and let the forwards constantly move their skates. Sure, some upgrade in net would be advisable for a real cup run, because I don't think the goalies are consistent enough for a real run, it's too much of a dice roll in my taste. But the team is damn dominant when they get some momentum and they rarely let go of that momentum, they only increase it.

I don't know what somebody has to tell Vlasic, but I hope they can inspire him to understand his role as a core player on a cup team and that he still holds recognition. That he has to be fine with not being interviewed much by the media afterwards a win. Purely speculating, is he simply jealous?

On a side note, I would love it so much if San Jose would win the cup, because the roster is so untraditional. I mean, Anaheim was awesome with Pronger and Niedermayer, but Karlsson and Burns? That's just modern hockey developing. Oh, they had Giguere. Jones isn't exactly Giguere. But it should still work if Vlasic wants a cup. No pressure.

 

[Chimpradamus]

I have to emphazise the Sharks need a new #1 goalie. I don't want to watch either of those two start leaking goals in crucial playoff games, unless especially Jones can really prove he has the right mindset and mental capacity to keep sharp when the team needs him. I haven't seen that yet.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I have to emphazise the Sharks need a new #1 goalie. I don't want to watch either of those two start leaking goals in crucial playoff games, unless especially Jones can really prove he has the right mindset and mental capacity to keep sharp when the team needs him. I haven't seen that yet.

I think the way they've been playing defense as of late is much more sustainable in terms of what and where they give up opportunities than the first couple months of the year. If that continues and even potentially improves because Vlasic gets his head out of his ass then the goaltending I think will work itself out. Both have shown capable of making enough saves in less dangerous opportunities against to win games.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

I have to emphazise the Sharks need a new #1 goalie. I don't want to watch either of those two start leaking goals in crucial playoff games, unless especially Jones can really prove he has the right mindset and mental capacity to keep sharp when the team needs him. I haven't seen that yet.

Did you see him in the past 3 playoffs?

No goaltender is going to look good behind a team that has played defense like we have this season.

 

[Chimpradamus]

Did you see him in the past 3 playoffs?

No goaltender is going to look good behind a team that has played defense like we have this season.

Nope, I certainly did not. I hope you who have seen him have more confidence in him as a cup winning goalie, than I have. My opinion of SJ goalies are of a too short observation sample. If you think he's good enough, I have no problem to keep quiet about it, because I don't hold much weight behind my opinions of the SJ goalie situation. I understand he has been in a difficult situation and has also been unlucky.

Let's just say I'm very spoiled when it comes to goalies. I'm also a Lundqvist fan. So yeah, I will keep quiet about it from now on. If you think he can hold the fort, it's good enough.

 

[lucky0slevin]

I have to emphazise the Sharks need a new #1 goalie. I don't want to watch either of those two start leaking goals in crucial playoff games, unless especially Jones can really prove he has the right mindset and mental capacity to keep sharp when the team needs him. I haven't seen that yet.

Jones isn't the same goalie during the playoffs he's always been great for us and during season he's ok. He's exactly the type of goalie you want because he elevates his play at the right time

 

[hockeyball]

Nope, I certainly did not. I hope you who have seen him have more confidence in him as a cup winning goalie, than I have. My opinion of SJ goalies are of a too short observation sample. If you think he's good enough, I have no problem to keep quiet about it, because I don't hold much weight behind my opinions of the SJ goalie situation. I understand he has been in a difficult situation and has also been unlucky.

Let's just say I'm very spoiled when it comes to goalies. I'm also a Lundqvist fan.

Jones has been the best goalie the Sharks have ever had in the playoffs. He always at best average in the regular season, but always steps up when we need it most. Opposite of past Sharks goalies.

 

[Chimpradamus]

Jones has been the best goalie the Sharks have ever had in the playoffs. He always at best average in the regular season, but always steps up when we need it most. Opposite of past Sharks goalies.

Jones isn't the same goalie during the playoffs he's always been great for us and during season he's ok. He's exactly the type of yoalie you want befause he elevates his play at the right time

Ok, that's the comforting words that I want to hear. Good to know. I will shut up about it.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Nope, I certainly did not. I hope you who have seen him have more confidence in him as a cup winning goalie, than I have. My opinion of SJ goalies are of a too short observation sample. If you think he's good enough, I have no problem to keep quiet about it. I understand he has been in a difficult situation.

I’m not trying to silence you - it’s been a fair point of discussion all season and many Sharks fans who have watched him throughout his career are on both sides of it. I was just honestly asking if you’d seen him in the playoffs, because he’s been more than adequate in 2 playoff series, elite in 4, and poor in one IMO. The biggest area of praise for Jones is his ability to dial in and play well when the games matter most.

 

[Chimpradamus]

I’m not trying to silence you - it’s been a fair point of discussion all season and many Sharks fans who have watched him throughout his career are on both sides of it. I was just honestly asking if you’d seen him in the playoffs, because he’s been more than adequate in 2 playoff series, elite in 4, and poor in one IMO. The biggest area of praise for Jones is his ability to dial in and play well when the games matter most.

No, really, that comforted me, because I understand the difference between the regular season and the playoffs. When it matters, it matters. Game 15 doesn't. That's fine by me, if Jones has been holding his part of the bargain in the playoffs, it's good enough. Parts of bad half seasons only awake questioning. I would rather have Karlsson and Burns on a team than a goalie like Lundqvist. I will assume Jones will be good enough to do his part when it gets tough. He just has to be solid, even if you can hope for a performance bonus.

Let's just say I would hope for someone better, but if he has been solid for the Sharks when it matters, meh, he should be good enough, he shouldn't need to be a Conn Smythe guy, even if it helps. I could potentially go into the goalie debate, but really, my sample is too small compared to you other posters. I will assume he plays better when everything tightens up.

 

[pappaf2]

Jones is the only Sharks goalie to ever enter "God Mode" during the playoffs.

 

[Hinterland]

31 Thoughts: Pettersson, McDavid could test year-end awards thinking - Sportsnet.ca

As always a good read. Nr.24 is particularly interesting. According to C.Smith, Pavelski is the most competitive guy he's ever seen.
Also, Rooster and Jux aren't gonna like Nr.7. "Nr.1" defenseman Dougie Hamilton is likely to get run outta town again. Got demoted to the 3rd pairing, is -12 and now about to get traded once again. Not long ago, Jux told me that he's better than Burns...at least defensively. Lol

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

I have to emphazise the Sharks need a new #1 goalie. I don't want to watch either of those two start leaking goals in crucial playoff games, unless especially Jones can really prove he has the right mindset and mental capacity to keep sharp when the team needs him. I haven't seen that yet.

I think we'll see where he really is up to the TDL. He wasn't that good last season before Christmas either.

 

[Bizz]

Jones is the only Sharks goalie to ever enter "God Mode" during the playoffs.

2004 Nabokov was pretty god mode.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Its funny how people keep saying that FA's signing in SJ would be a bad idea because in another 2-3 years Couture, Pavs, Burns all will be too old. Nobody talks about our younger players like Labanc, Hertl, Meier, etc. Or the fact that the roster for EVERY team is bound to be different in 2-3 years. We may not have our 1'st round picks for the next 2 years but we still have good prospects in the system as well as other draft picks.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Its funny how people keep saying that FA's signing in SJ would be a bad idea because in another 2-3 years Couture, Pavs, Burns all will be too old. Nobody talks about our younger players like Labanc, Hertl, Meier, etc. Or the fact that the roster for EVERY team is bound to be different in 2-3 years. We may not have our 1'st round picks for the next 2 years but we still have good prospects in the system as well as other draft picks.

Pavs is the only one that'll be too old but by then it might not matter. Pavs has become less versatile in his 30's already. He's pretty much only about goal scoring and leadership. Important for sure but not irreplaceable. The things that Burns and Karlsson bring to the table are much harder to replace. The issue for us regarding Karlsson is the conditions to the trade. Re-signing him and losing another 2nd is no big deal but getting to the Finals this year and having that upgrade to a 1st to make it where we lack a 1st for three seasons will be a problem when it comes to trying to add quality talent really anywhere.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Pavs is the only one that'll be too old but by then it might not matter. Pavs has become less versatile in his 30's already. He's pretty much only about goal scoring and leadership. Important for sure but not irreplaceable. The things that Burns and Karlsson bring to the table are much harder to replace. The issue for us regarding Karlsson is the conditions to the trade. Re-signing him and losing another 2nd is no big deal but getting to the Finals this year and having that upgrade to a 1st to make it where we lack a 1st for three seasons will be a problem when it comes to trying to add quality talent really anywhere.

I think if it comes between one of Pavs or EK65, it really is not a hard choice. Pavs is awesome but EK65 makes a bigger impact on the game because of his role and TOI. The best we can hope for at this time is that Labanc temporarily fits into that spot and does the best he can. My hope is that a combination of Labanc and one of the Ch-twins can alleviate what Pavs gives us.

Also, there is really not much at this time we can do about not having 1st round picks for the next few years. Its not worth not re-signing EK65 anyway. We can only hope that DW continues to work his magic and signs some European FA's and continues having good picks in the later rounds of the draft.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I think if it comes between one of Pavs or EK65, it really is not a hard choice. Pavs is awesome but EK65 makes a bigger impact on the game because of his role and TOI. The best we can hope for at this time is that Labanc temporarily fits into that spot and does the best he can. My hope is that a combination of Labanc and one of the Ch-twins can alleviate what Pavs gives us.

Also, there is really not much at this time we can do about not having 1st round picks for the next few years. Its not worth not re-signing EK65 anyway. We can only hope that DW continues to work his magic and signs some European FA's and continues having good picks in the later rounds of the draft.

I have hopes for the Ch-twins to do that but not Labanc. He's not a goal scorer and he's not willing to get dirty and even if he was he's not good or improving at winning those battles. I know he's young but he's very far off and doesn't look to be making any strides. I don't think he's needed here moving forward.

 

[NathanCouture]

Pavs is awesome but EK65 makes a bigger impact on the game because of his role and TOI. The best we can hope for at this time is that Labanc temporarily fits into that spot and does the best he can. My hope is that a combination of Labanc and one of the Ch-twins can alleviate what Pavs gives us.

There was some worry along this line when Marleau walked regarding who would make up for the lost scoring he provided. I was one of them. Any holes that his exit created were filled. I hesitate to say we didn’t miss him at all because of his popularity but we didn’t miss his scoring.

Players that DW has and will continue to provide will step up and fill gaps in the lineup.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

There was some worry along this line when Marleau walked regarding who would make up for the lost scoring he provided. I was one of them. Any holes that his exit created were filled. I hesitate to say we didn’t miss him at all because of his popularity but we didn’t miss his scoring.

Players that DW has and will continue to provide will step up and fill gaps in the lineup.

The only real thing I was worried about missing with regards to Marleau was his zone entries on the power play. Until Karlsson showed up, they were terribly inconsistent at it between his leaving and this season. Everything else he was already getting scaled back on and they were phasing him out in a sense. It was the biggest reason why he stayed on the top power play for so long.

 

[Mattb124]

Joner for Bob?